I know it's been said many times before, but fishing really has been nerfed just a bit too much. I spent over an hour fishing and got a single iron crate and a few wooden ones. Bear in mind this is with 50% fishing power. This is probably about 5 times less than what I would have got in 1.3 and it makes me sad that another branch of progression has been cut off to most players until they get crateor fishing potions, which is hard for the beginner to do. And don't even start me on how grindy Blood moon fishing is now.
We already lost the reaver shark and the Pre-Hardmode to Hardmode crate trick; so why are we losing everything else about fishing too?
I've had reasonably fine luck with about 80% power and relevant potions (sonar+crate), recently got golden rod so I can push over 100% so I'll see how rare gold/biome crates are soon enough. Potions are easy enough to get from quests too, I never craft them.
Lava fishing is a bit annoying, though. Fishing still picks the first bait instead of looking for the first USABLE bait, so you have to mess with inventory slots.
I'm actually curious if there's a possibility of another "aggro taking" item/item-addition being added to either the corruption or the general world. I've been building a paladin in a 1.4 play-through with my friends and have been really missing the flesh knuckles since we rolled corruption. At least in larger multiplayer worlds, the flesh knuckles start to feel a bit too essential for the role imo.
I'm actually curious if there's a possibility of another "aggro taking" item/item-addition being added to either the corruption or the general world. I've been building a paladin in a 1.4 play-through with my friends and have been really missing the flesh knuckles since we rolled corruption. At least in larger multiplayer worlds, the flesh knuckles start to feel a bit too essential for the role imo.
I think the best idea I've heard for this is to have an NPC sell the items, personally I think it should be the Dryad selling both seeds during a blood moon since you can acquire orb drops via fishing. Simple enough change, and no new items so it's probably easy to convince.
For now I think you'll have to world hop. I wouldn't expect your friends to be too opposed to you bringing in a few crimson seeds.
[edit]
My mistake, it's a mimic drop that depends on the world type. Would definitely need an NPC to sell them or to change how mimics work.
I think the best idea I've heard for this is to have an NPC sell the items, personally I think it should be the Dryad selling both seeds during a blood moon since you can acquire orb drops via fishing. Simple enough change, and no new items so it's probably easy to convince.
For now I think you'll have to world hop. I wouldn't expect your friends to be too opposed to you bringing in a few crimson seeds.
[edit]
My mistake, it's a mimic drop that depends on the world type. Would definitely need an NPC to sell them or to change how mimics work.
I think having the Dryad maybe sell crimson/corruption mimic keys for the alternate world type during a blood moon might do it. She could sell seeds as well to solve any other issues.
I think having the Dryad maybe sell crimson/corruption mimic keys for the alternate world type during a blood moon might do it. She could sell seeds as well to solve any other issues.
I think just selling seeds and having the keys be crafted with a biome-relevant item would be the best way to do it, since then it's a single extra item sold.
Could also lock the seeds behind something like hardmode, one mech boss, plantera, etc.
I think just selling seeds and having the keys be crafted with a biome-relevant item would be the best way to do it, since then it's a single extra item sold.
Could also lock the seeds behind something like hardmode, one mech boss, plantera, etc.
I love this update but I feel like the additions to the tinkerers workshop are a bit underwhelming. I think collecting items in different biomes and combining them later is what makes visiting different biomes so worth it. A lot of it feels useful but not long term, which makes it not useful enough to fetch them. A lot of desert items are good, but ancient chisel is an example of something can't be combined into anything, neither the weapons that should be able to be combined into hardmode weapons. Architect gizmo pack still does not feel like an endgame counterpart to the Grand design and some weapon buffs are missing, mainly to melee. (Night's edge that still has no autoswing comes to mind). This so far is only about decisions that were left out
The additions that did make the final cut are in itself very good, but I do want to talk about the only real bad change in this patch (and said before): The change that non-visual accessories can't be worn in vanity slots is my least favourite change this update by far. This change was completely unnecessary. I understand that you don't want to trick people into thinking they can slap accessories into vanity that have no visual effect, but why do it this way really? You have to arbitrairly remember if every accessory is also a vanity one or not, or you have to get it out of your pockets and read the descriptions for it. Something nobody really wants to do. This patch focuses a lot on quality of life changes, so I find this change very weird. Also noting that this is completely counter-intuitive too, whereas the anklet of the wind is not a vanity item but the cloud bottles are. Yeah, very confusing and unnecessary. Inventory management got harder and it makes the right-click swap feature (for inventory management purposes) obsolete on many occasions. It could simply just pick the visual of the regular slot in case the vanity slot is occupied with a non-visual and it would avoid all this tediousness.
The thing about the UI element stuff is understandable (getting back to it at like 12 pages before-hand; the thread moves fast) especially since design is most on the set-in-stone management as-is. I'd still keep an eye out towards potential shifts or ways to demystify/change shortcuts available on the UI for inventory management that's already there (unless I'm being stupid and not realizing that it is there and I simply haven't looked hard enough or whatever). The Journey Mode stuff is just gripes on aesthetic, but this is more tactile and generalist - showing players that there's more QoL to the barebones menu than there appears to be. If push comes to shove or if dev processes can't get to it in any tactile capacity, I'd say you can go the easy route and "let the players share it along" with emphasis/help from loading screen menu tips. You'd lose out on player accessibility, but you'd gain it back anyway using what's already there, so there's not really too much a price to pay here.
Speaking of being candid, is there any chance you could chime in on the progression of the number tweaks as is? Or the script of changes and what'll be expected? No discredit towards you or calling you opaque here, man; you've been working solid on this and you've chimed in with more behind-the-scenes than expected. This is just getting a picture of how things are looking aside from the small snippets sprucing up the posts here and there on balance changes. It could also serve as a good read-first on the first post to showcase the general tide of changes that you're looking into as well as a good indicator of what's already getting touched up and inviting more specialized discussion for those that wanna dribble that ball with you. The format's also already there, so to speak, so it's more incentive to the call.
Really, it's more or less a way for people to dedicate discussion towards you for the kinda talk that you can more or less actually handle, rather than having to bear something more Sisyphean. Even still, thanks for chiming in on the stuff that you can't expect to handle and even having some fun-natured discussions on some of them. You're a real pal, Lein.
With regards to the progression nerfs discussion, I'm going to pop in and say it is completely valid for the developers of the game to remove progression strategies that encourage players to skip content that the developers instead want to highlight. Terraria is designed to have an emphasis on exploration and boss combat, and rewards engaging with these aspects of the game with power progression. Ocean fishing and bombing meteors was a reliable way to make hundreds of items, several dozen enemies, and a handful of bosses completely irrelevant with minimal exploration. I will go ahead and guess that the major reason some players are eager to skip pre-hardmode is because the slow pace of mining and movement compared to hardmode, and skipping to a part of the game that offers the pace and freedom of movement that a player has grown accustomed to from a previous playthrough is understandable. However, it is equally understandable for the developers of a game to encourage players to replay parts of the game that they put lots of effort into making a unique and engaging experience from the rest of the game.
I think the fact that Journey Mode was released alongside these restrictions to progression strategies was a very good step in the right direction. The framework for greatly accelerated pace through the game that still requires players to engage with the incredible breadth of content from start to finish is fantastic. I personally have had very few pains in pace of progression as someone who returned to the game after a long hiatus, but I can see things that would be annoying to more recent returning players, primarily the aforementioned movement and mining speed of pre-hardmode. After exhausting the novelty of a world and starting anew, the most painful time in the game for me is tools that make menial activities feel sluggish the lack of superspeed boots, grappling hook, and wings. I have a hunch that the feeling of being weak in these aspects are the underlying cause of the aching over not being able to skip pre-hardmode content, because I have a very hard time believing it is dissatisfaction with the quality and novelty of content itself.
My Solution (and TL;DR):
Based on the developers intention to force players to engage with more pre-hardmode content on repeat playthroughs and my hypothesis as to what the root of this series of complaints are, I think updating Journey Mode with a tool speed power and more starter mobility equipment such as a grappling hook and a superspeed accessory (or a mount that fills this role, such as the Mollusk Whistle's Flamingo mount) would make playing through pre-hardmode more engaging to players coming off the power high of using endgame tools and accessories for players who choose to take advantage of them.
I've done my best to be very deliberate and transparent about my thoughts while processing this problem, and for the sake of being thorough, I would like to make explicitly clear that I am trying my best to propose a solution to a problem I'm seeing complaints about in a way that fits my understanding of the game Re-Logic is trying to make based on the systematic changes they made in the new update.
Im not sure how much power Leinfors has over this, and im sure the dev team hears this every single day now, but i need to get this off of my chest.
NPC HAPPINESS: or, Why am i being punished for wanting to build my way?
Now, let me just start by saying im not much of a builder, I don't play Terraria to experience virtual Legos, nor do i want to. that aside though, there's one thing i do take pride in doing, and that is building my big castle, fortress base, whatever you want to call it, for me and my npc's. These days however, i cant do that anymore, not without handicapping myself to a rather crippling degree. The only way around this Is to bend my knees to the will of the npc's and build a bunch of inefficient houses all over the map, and even then i still run the risk of being completely screwed over by the initial hardmode V of biome death and destruction ruining my carefully placed houses, punishing me with something completely out of my control for doing what the game asked, which is absolutely inexcusable and unfair to the player to where it honestly makes me believe that not much thought went into this mechanic and was made solely to spite players who DON'T build a certain way.
But here's the thing, despite the crap i just gave this mechanic i genuinely feel it could be salvaged into something beneficial to the game. Instead of just having it be the "Build my way or f**k off" it currently is it could be something like this:
What if there was a small "sidequest" system to convince NPCs about biomes they might not like?
Like you could find some rare painting material, in a biome that painter doesnt like, bring it to him and from that point onwards he wont mind living there because he wants to find more of it or something. So basically show something to every NPC that they might appreciate from biomes they dont like. It could be an ongoing side thing throughout the game and it would make them feel more "alive". That way slowly but surely more options would be available to house different groups at different biomes. I think fixing their problems with biomes could be an interesting expansion on the disliked biome side of the system.
Having Npc side quests to help make them happier in situations they otherwise wouldn't like. Or it could be something simple, like upgrading an npc's houses with materials that aren't just basic wood and torches or giving them fancy furniture to make them happier, or perhaps a hero "discount" system based off of progression, like say you just took down EOC, the MAX price an npc can charge you drops from 150% to 147% and taking down bosses, invasions, and events would lower the maximum price an npc could charge you to the base price of 100%. Now here's where the old npc preference mechanics would come into play, say you want more of a discount, you could then build a house following the current npc happiness rules and use that to get a greater discount, Either of these could work, but as it is now? it just seems poorly designed.
Anyways, I come here to ask for only one thing (for now).
Please revert bombs not affecting meteorite. I know you mentioned something about "strategy" in a previous comment, but there's nothing strategical about sitting there and mining for 10-20 minutes and just slapping meteor heads when they come close. It's just time consuming for the sake of being time consuming.
Progression isn't really an argument anymore considering that meteorites now only spawn after BoC and EoW.
I really don't know what that change was trying to accomplish aside from just wasting the player's time. It doesn't make things any more difficult, it just makes acquiring meteorite annoying...
Oh yeah, as many people said: torch luck should be removed.
I just thought of a possible solution to the Reaver Shark: Move it to hardmode and make it as strong as mytrhil. My reason is, it would still allow people to skip some stuff, and it would make sense. In pre-hardmode, you can pick gold from the start, but in hardmode you have to go through cobalt and mythril to get adamantite, and basically nobody bothers making cobalt and mythril stuff other than the drills and the mythril anvil, unless it's for cosmetic purposes. With Reaver Shark being available when you enter hardmode and able to pick all hardmode ores, you allow players to skip some tedious stuff, while still having them explore the caves for adamantite and a bit of mythril for the anvil, and they still have the option to fish for hardmode crates if they want.
It would also be an incentive to use the new Pylons to set up a beach town in pre-hardmode or to try and get the Magic Conch so you don't have to travel the more dangerous world in hardmode to go fish the Reaver Shark.
If there's already a different way to skip mining for hardmode ores, why not add a different one and make Reaver Shark fans happy? And since the hotfixes already updated some spirtes you could even give it a cooler look to fit its new placement in progression.
Just to be clear, I'm not against the Reaver Shark nerf a all, I just think that now there's no point to it at all and it could as well not exist if it stays as it is.
I figured I should post here too so that i can get more attention the thread is here.
Basically just asking about making the search functionality in journey a bit more robust. If I search hammer I should get all the items that I have researched that have a hammer power but I don't get that. Items only come up if I search letters that are in the name of the item. That's it. Why not if it's in the description? Or have all sword weapon come up when you type sword? Keyword search makes so much sense for the duplication menu but it's not there.
I know it's been said many times before, but fishing really has been nerfed just a bit too much. I spent over an hour fishing and got a single iron crate and a few wooden ones. Bear in mind this is with 50% fishing power. This is probably about 5 times less than what I would have got in 1.3 and it makes me sad that another branch of progression has been cut off to most players until they get crateor fishing potions, which is hard for the beginner to do. And don't even start me on how grindy Blood moon fishing is now.
We already lost the reaver shark and the Pre-Hardmode to Hardmode crate trick; so why are we losing everything else about fishing too?
As I understand it, overall fishing power has only been slightly impacted, and only at the highest levels of fishing power. Crates at 50% fishing rate shouldn't be noticeably more or less common than before. Someone running 150 fishing power might notice a difference, but it wouldn't be a dramatic one.
Speaking of being candid, is there any chance you could chime in on the progression of the number tweaks as is? Or the script of changes and what'll be expected?
The candid answer is that we are extremely busy with high priority bug fixes right now, and its taking up 12-15 hours of my attention per day. I'm more or less completely overwhelmed by it and the dedicated attention time I need to even begin balance review is at least a week off. I've had, at most, time to skim the thread the past few days.
This is also impacted by the fact that 80% of the discussion in this thread is not within my scope of ability to change directly, despite my attempts to explain such, so I've had very little to say.
I've honestly been considering closing the thread until things have settled down and I'm in a better place to engage in the discourse that it deserves. I'm not sure if its better to leave it open and risk people feeling ignored, or close it with an explanation.
Based on the developers intention to force players to engage with more pre-hardmode content on repeat playthroughs and my hypothesis as to what the root of this series of complaints are, I think updating Journey Mode with a tool speed power and more starter mobility equipment such as a grappling hook and a superspeed accessory (or a mount that fills this role, such as the Mollusk Whistle's Flamingo mount) would make playing through pre-hardmode more engaging to players coming off the power high of using endgame tools and accessories for players who choose to take advantage of them.
Imo, jungles are too fragile. I know you've heard this before, but what if you did something like having the corruption and crimson still spread there, but just not changing the mud to dirt and instead just make it corruption/crimson mud? This way, it could still spread, but a player could change it back to jungle with a solution, or purification powder or something. Although then you wouldn't be able to use green solution to change jungle to purity, so maybe a dark green solution instead/in addition to the above solutions?
Brain of Confusion was vastly overtuned. People would default it with only the dodge chance. That critical hit bonus needs to go yesterday.
I understand that Crimson is, overall, meant to be more rewarding than Corruption due to its "higher" difficulty.
And I understand nobody ran the Brain of Confusion because Worm Scarf was better (even though it lost value when you got better at not getting hit).
But it really isn't that much harder. Not hard enough to warrant this level of disparity. Why does Crimson need to simply be better? It has a few stronger enemies and one boss that's slightly more annoying than Eater of Worlds is, yet its loot is leagues above the majority of what the Corruption offers. The only disadvantage to Crimson now is that you can't get Mana Regeneration Band/Magic Cuffs there, and that's an entirely different problem that needs addressing on its own.
The Crimson is too rewarding now. Why would I want to run Worm Scarf to reduce a stray 120 damage attack into a 100 damage attack and do nothing else when I could roll the dice on turning it into a 0 damage attack that also gives me a full inventory's worth of Lucky reforges for a few seconds as well?
I've honestly been considering closing the thread until things have settled down and I'm in a better place to engage in the discourse that it deserves. I'm not sure if its better to leave it open and risk people feeling ignored, or close it with an explanation.
That wouldn't be a bad idea, as long as there's a guarantee the topic will actually be re-opened in the future. The pain of a constantly growing backlog while you don't have time to address it is a deep, psychological one.. and it's sometimes why things never get done.
I created my account just to post this.
This may have been said by now, but one thing that I would like to see is a numerical value for health and mana (like 100/100 etc) on the new redesigned UIs, like the classic one has. I really want to use the bar one but it just lacks that little bit of extra visual information.
Also, bring back the ability to put non vanity items in vanity slots. This seems random and unnecessary honestly. If that was a balance change then why can you still quick swap vanity items with equipped items? Did you deliberately go through each one and decide whether it was too OP to be in the vanity slot, or did you just randomly take away the ones that had no visual sprite? Not a good change at all. If that's really the case, maybe you should make sprites for all of the items that don't count as vanity items. I want to be able to wear my greedy ring and swap it without having to open my piggy bank every single time.
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