Weapons & Equip Ranged may require some tweaks...

[NotaVoltorb]

OVERALL

The class is very powerful, and while I'd like to have a "run and gun" style armor set, I think the class is very powerful, and some of the complaints in the OP show a lack of experience with the class (no offense). Some of the shortcomings described in the opening don't exist in the first place for players who know the class well.

I very much appreciate such a detailed argument
The class is actually a very good one. It works well, but the amount of effort you have to put into it exceeds the other classes by so much (Props to summoners getting slime staff though). Even after all the work you put into the class, you still come barely close to reaching the other classes power. Mobility is absolutely necessary endgame; there's no way (Except cheesing) around it. Expert mode is even more unforgiving, and mobility is all you have against Moonlord.
Also I have much experience as a ranger, as I have used it in about 6 of 9 play-throughs of Terraria, and it is honestly the weakest of the 3 (I guess of 4 now).

 

[Neutral Effect]

I very much appreciate such a detailed argument
The class is actually a very good one. It works well, but the amount of effort you have to put into it exceeds the other classes by so much (Props to summoners getting slime staff though). Even after all the work you put into the class, you still come barely close to reaching the other classes power. Mobility is absolutely necessary endgame; there's no way (Except cheesing) around it. Expert mode is even more unforgiving, and mobility is all you have against Moonlord.
Also I have much experience as a ranger, as I have used it in about 6 of 9 play-throughs of Terraria, and it is honestly the weakest of the 3 (I guess of 4 now).

Summoners are arguably weaker, but they're pretty new class compared to The Three, so that's likely to change soon.

 

[Qui Devorat]

You know, we don't want realistic, we want badass. X)
Also, it's not fun to play multiplayer as a ranged when I enter stealth and a mage instagibs the boss I was preparing to fight. Not fair that ranged can't deal that much damage even if they cripple their own movement speed with entering stealth.
Master Ninja Gear is part of my setup always, but the dash from it removes stealth. Why?


Well, it was always like this with mages. Even back in 1.0.6.1 when I started playing Terraria, mages had the Vilethorn and rangers had no way to shoot through walls. The funny thing is I kinda got used to that, despite I know it's not fair. Now even melee has a similar weapon which makes it even less fair as Summoners were always capable of summoning minions through walls, soo...
...I think you're right, but in the first place, I'd be happy to see me able to dash while in stealth or even mount up.



Hell yeah, the Ripper. Cool idea. I loved it, it was among my favourite guns. Rip off the Ripper, best pun of the day award goes to Tyrax Lightning!



I'd love to see that! Celebration should go, but I instead want to see that as a 1:10000 nymph drop so I'll never have to see it ever again! X)


Funny thing is, if you make the calculations, the original Tournament idea is even stronger, while it may not look like such, but it is.



Yeah, the worst of all, killing the Moon Lord and getting the Celebration is not a reason to celebrate, it's a reason to rage instead. xD

Vilethorn has no splash damage, ditto for Nettleburst.
But Lunar Flares are like a rocket launcher/blizzard staff combo. They do decent damage even when the wielder isn't a mage.
It's sorta like the last prism and other weapons like Meowmere. Rangers have to try to take Mages and Warriors out because they stand no chance in a straight up fight. Meowmere makes it easier to flush players out due to the fact that all you have to do to kill pretty much everyone is to spam Nyan cats, so no work needed there.
And the Last Prism shares the same problem.

What I am saying, is that rangers have to be more skilled at this sort of thing, as although SDMG, Tsunami and Phantasm when loaded with Luminite can tear through like the good little handheld Grim Reaper it is, faced up against a giant laser of death and some guy spamming Meowmere, it's almost useless.
Rangers have to work.
Melee don't, and Mage don't.

 

[NotaVoltorb]

Summoners are arguably weaker, but they're pretty new class compared to The Three, so that's likely to change soon.

That's why I have yet to call it an official class, like throwing. But I suppose it is much more developed than throwing. It seems like everyone forgets about Throwing XD

 

[Pirtz]

@Pirtz About dashing, it's in my gameplay essential part. I use it to quickly react, gain speed, and dodge projectiles when I'm at point blank. Hook won't make for this.

Dashing and hooking can both get out out of the way of any projectile but hooks require you to anticipate twice as much ahead, so are more difficult to use but saves you an accessory slot for a damage emblem. There are indeed some area attacks which are too fast to consistently dodge without tabi and tinkers.

 

[TMB50]

Agreed. It's almost disappointing to get the Celebration as a drop.

I just realized that the celebration is a drop BECAUSE YOU BEAT THE GAME AND YOU NEED TO CELEBRATE
[DOUBLEPOST=1437770006,1437769929][/DOUBLEPOST]Your thread is getting quite popular This is goooooood stuff

That is why it would be sold by the Party Girl, apart from it being very fitting for that NPC.

Another problem that I noticed is that there are very few bullets with interesting effects. The bullets made with Empty Bullets, for example, could be given different effects on top of/replacing the debuffs depending on their new effect, such as making golden bullets deal damage directly proportional to the amount of money the player is carrying, or making venom bullets spawn toxic goo that would act as a liquid, damage and inflict Venom on enemies, and would despawn after 4 seconds or so.

 

[Neutral Effect]

IDK, I think Throwers should stay in pre-hardmode. Sorry for "adversitement", but here are reasons I listed:
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...va-and-the-endgame-thrower.27166/#post-637693
Just didn't want to get too much off-top here.

 

[Kardfogu]

Explosions clip walls a bit.

There are some points made in the OP that I disagree with.

DEFENSE

The defense values in ranger gear are not that bad, especially if you gear for defense. With moderate base damage and high critical hit values, rangers can afford to wear warding gear while still dealing decent damage.

OFFENSE

People often overlook the tactical variety of ammunition. Holy arrows cause good spammage (spam damage) and can strike targets through walls, explosives deal with crowds and can deal proximity damage through thin walls, there's a variety of bouncing/ricochet ammo types, and the damage values equal or exceed most magic attacks (although the final prism is truly silly).

MOBILITY

This is where a ranger is truly weak. It's sort of bad that a ranger can't handle bosses the way other classes can; asking a player to stop or slow down to get damage bonuses is a death sentence during boss fights. The stealth based armor bonuses for rangers are not useful at all for bosses, and there really should be a "run and gun" alternative, perhaps a different type of leg armor for the vortex set or shroomite, just as there is different chest armor for the beetle set and an alternate head armor for spectre. There wasn't much love given to the shroomite set, the helmets watered down the ranger's versatility. While stealth bonuses are interesting in pvp, Rangers seem less effective in pve.

OVERALL

The class is very powerful, and while I'd like to have a "run and gun" style armor set, I think the class is very powerful, and some of the complaints in the OP show a lack of experience with the class (no offense). Some of the shortcomings described in the opening don't exist in the first place for players who know the class well.

One sentence: While you sit in stealth, hoping to reach 10k DPS with the S.D.M.G. using crystal bullets on a target dummy that doesn't strike back, a mage flies over your head, bursting down [insert unlucky random boss' name here] with 10k Last Prism DPS while he's riding an UFO at a speed of 48mph and healing himself 15HP/sec from his own set bonus.

We can't even deal that damage while we are in stealth, crippling our movement. They do that damage, while they are flying on a mount at the same time and they shamelessly heal themselves on top of that and they don't need to farm ammo either, they just grab pots from an NPC.
Mages at the moment are simply far superior to ranged in every single aspect.

 

[Qui Devorat]

One sentence: While you sit in stealth, hoping to reach 10k DPS with the S.D.M.G. using crystal bullets on a target dummy that doesn't strike back, a mage flies over your head, bursting down [insert unlucky random boss' name here] with 10k Last Prism DPS while he's riding an UFO at a speed of 48mph and healing himself 15HP/sec from his own set bonus.

We can't even deal that damage while we are in stealth, crippling our movement. They do that damage, while they flying on a mount at the same time and they shamelessly heal themselves on top of that and they don't need to farm ammo either, they just grab pots from an NPC.
Mages at the moment are simply far superior to ranged in every single aspect.

The only real aspect they don't do good at is hiding.
Doesn't stop them from carpet bombing every nook and cranny while going "OOGIE BOOGIE SWAG SO EASY"
If you ask me, there's some serious favouritism going on in the higher classes of TCF.

Ranger needs a tune up.

 

[Neutral Effect]

One sentence: While you sit in stealth, hoping to reach 10k DPS with the S.D.M.G. using crystal bullets on a target dummy that doesn't strike back, a mage flies over your head, bursting down [insert unlucky random boss' name here] with 10k Last Prism DPS while he's riding an UFO at a speed of 48mph and healing himself 15HP/sec from his own set bonus.

We can't even deal that damage while we are in stealth, crippling our movement. They do that damage, while they are flying on a mount at the same time and they shamelessly heal themselves on top of that and they don't need to farm ammo either, they just grab pots from an NPC.
Mages at the moment are simply far superior to ranged in every single aspect.

Melee as well. Terrarian, a powerfull yoyo... and you can use two at a time. Most end-game weapons releasing projectiles instead of being melee as name suggests... And these projectile do insane amount of damage. More than weapon's melee attack itself. These projectiles do not cost anything. They deal damage in powerful bursts, and can quickly switch from high-DPS weapon to lifesteal to heal themeselves. They have high defense and THREE moon lord drops.
EDIT: They also have a weapon that goes through blocks (though I'm not jealous. Lunar flare is enough for me when I run into dungeon), as well as this damned Daybreak... I like it, but it's parody of melee now.

@Qui Devorat We are gaining momentum. There are no brakes on Ranger equality train!

 

[NotaVoltorb]

Melee as well. Terrarian, a powerfull yoyo... and you can use two at a time. Most end-game weapons releasing projectiles instead of being melee as name suggests... And these projectile do insane amount of damage. More than weapon's melee attack itself. These projectiles do not cost anything. They deal damage in powerful bursts, and can quickly switch from high-DPS weapon to lifesteal to heal themeselves. They have high defense and THREE moon lord drops.

It doesn't even deserve to be called Melee class. It should be called "Swords that do very little damage but shoots projectiles the make rangers obsolete Class"

 

[Neutral Effect]

It doesn't even deserve to be called Melee class. It should be called "Swords that do very little damage but shoots projectiles the make rangers obsolete Class"

Hmm... I barely understand how "Melee" now works. Maybe "Warrior" would be more adequate now.
EDIT: Ok, enough off-top

 

[Qui Devorat]

Melee as well. Terrarian, a powerfull yoyo... and you can use two at a time. Most end-game weapons releasing projectiles instead of being melee as name suggests... And these projectile do insane amount of damage. More than weapon's melee attack itself. These projectiles do not cost anything. They deal damage in powerful bursts, and can quickly switch from high-DPS weapon to lifesteal to heal themeselves. They have high defense and THREE moon lord drops.
EDIT: They also have a weapon that goes through blocks (though I'm not jealous. Lunar flare is enough for me when I run into dungeon), as well as this damned Daybreak... I like it, but it's parody of melee now.

@Qui Devorat We are gaining momentum. There are no brakes on Ranger equality train!

sorry Im not getting wat u mean.

 

[Esmerelda the Slime Girl]

OVERALL

The class is very powerful, and while I'd like to have a "run and gun" style armor set, I think the class is very powerful, and some of the complaints in the OP show a lack of experience with the class (no offense). Some of the shortcomings described in the opening don't exist in the first place for players who know the class well.

Hmmm... so maybe an alternate leg piece for Shroomite/Vortex where you do 10% less damage / crit chance initially, but do more damage / crit chance as you run depending on your speed, capping at about 40% / 45% bonus damage and crit chance? (like, say, every 1mph you're moving = +1%, so you have to go 10mph to offset the initial damage /crit decrease, with damage bonuses capping at 50 / 55 mph.) It could even have a neat "woosh"ing effect that intensifies as your bonus damage grows.

It definitely sounds fun, and could possibly be added to a much lesser extent in pre-hardmode as an alternate helmet to the Necro set. :3c (Let's say... 5% less damage, with a bonus damage cap of 20 while running, with +1% for every 2mph, so you'd have to run at 50mph to get the full bonus damage from it. So your default running speed of 30mph would net you an overall +10% ranged, which means it wouldn't be better than the normal Necro set if you didn't use your speed enhancing items)


Now, on the topic of the Celebration, how about it be a bought from Party Girl for about 2 platinum after Moon Lord's defeat, and replace the drop with the Air Strike (A rocket launcher that makes missles fall from the sky like the Star Wrath, Lunar Flare, Stormbow, etc.

 

[Neutral Effect]

sorry Im not getting wat u mean.

Forgive me this small joke

 

[Qui Devorat]

Hmmm... so maybe an alternate leg piece for Shroomite/Vortex where you do 10% less damage / crit chance initially, but do more damage / crit chance as you run depending on your speed, capping at about 40% / 45% bonus damage and crit chance? (like, say, every 1mph you're moving = +1%, so you have to go 10mph to offset the initial damage /crit decrease, with damage bonuses capping at 50 / 55 mph.) It could even have a neat "woosh"ing effect that intensifies as your bonus damage grows.

It definitely sounds fun, and could possibly be added to a much lesser extent in pre-hardmode as an alternate helmet to the Necro set. :3c (Let's say... 5% less damage, with a bonus damage cap of 20 while running, with +1% for every 2mph, so you'd have to run at 50mph to get the full bonus damage from it. So your default running speed of 30mph would net you an overall +10% ranged, which means it wouldn't be better than the normal Necro set if you didn't use your speed enhancing items)


Now, on the topic of the Celebration, how about it be a bought from Party Girl for about 2 platinum after Moon Lord's defeat, and replace the drop with the Air Strike (A rocket launcher that makes missles fall from the sky like the Star Wrath, Lunar Flare, Stormbow, etc.

That actually sounds like a ing good idea!

[DOUBLEPOST=1437772584,1437772558][/DOUBLEPOST]

Forgive me this small joke

But at least we fight for ranger freedom.

 

[Neutral Effect]

Now, on the topic of the Celebration, how about it be a bought from Party Girl for about 2 platinum after Moon Lord's defeat, and replace the drop with the Air Strike (A rocket launcher that makes missles fall from the sky like the Star Wrath, Lunar Flare, Stormbow, etc.

Agree with you in this; though about Armor I think that other solution is needed. Maybe leave it to devs, if they could be so kind and hear our cries?

 

[Rough Draft]

Amusingly, Redigit has said multiple times that ranged is his favorite playstyle. It's true, magic is superior in every way, it was in 1.2 as well. The shroomite bonus has always been worthless, and honestly, ranged is simply only viable if you're someone who likes spending hours setting up massive farms. I am one of those people, which is good, because I like spraying bullets at stuff. I love celebration, the fireworks are super fun, but it's a pisspoor weapon, and while having a dolphin that fires a laser-like stream of bullets is awesome, the thing shoots -faster- than the vortex beater and has -less- ammo consumption bonus, making it a less economical weapon. It's just silly.

Overall, as someone who has over 2200 hours playing and has, on multiple occasions, begrudgingly switched out all of my gear from ranged to magic because of the clear gap between the two, I support this thread.

 

[NotaVoltorb]

Hmmm... so maybe an alternate leg piece for Shroomite/Vortex where you do 10% less damage / crit chance initially, but do more damage / crit chance as you run depending on your speed, capping at about 40% / 45% bonus damage and crit chance? (like, say, every 1mph you're moving = +1%, so you have to go 10mph to offset the initial damage /crit decrease, with damage bonuses capping at 50 / 55 mph.) It could even have a neat "woosh"ing effect that intensifies as your bonus damage grows.

It definitely sounds fun, and could possibly be added to a much lesser extent in pre-hardmode as an alternate helmet to the Necro set. :3c (Let's say... 5% less damage, with a bonus damage cap of 20 while running, with +1% for every 2mph, so you'd have to run at 50mph to get the full bonus damage from it. So your default running speed of 30mph would net you an overall +10% ranged, which means it wouldn't be better than the normal Necro set if you didn't use your speed enhancing items)


Now, on the topic of the Celebration, how about it be a bought from Party Girl for about 2 platinum after Moon Lord's defeat, and replace the drop with the Air Strike (A rocket launcher that makes missles fall from the sky like the Star Wrath, Lunar Flare, Stormbow, etc.

I actually like this. It is more of a run and gun as opposed to stealth. The only change I could think of is if it works while on a mount, not just while running.

 

[Pirtz]

Melee as well. Terrarian, a powerfull yoyo... and you can use two at a time. Most end-game weapons releasing projectiles instead of being melee as name suggests... And these projectile do insane amount of damage. More than weapon's melee attack itself. These projectiles do not cost anything. They deal damage in powerful bursts, and can quickly switch from high-DPS weapon to lifesteal to heal themeselves. They have high defense and THREE moon lord drops.
EDIT: They also have a weapon that goes through blocks (though I'm not jealous. Lunar flare is enough for me when I run into dungeon), as well as this damned Daybreak... I like it, but it's parody of melee now.

@Qui Devorat We are gaining momentum. There are no brakes on Ranger equality train!

YES! What sort of melee weapon goes beyond your screen while wallhacking, at speeds rivaling bullets, with every part of it making everything explode? It's like Michael Bay forged the thing. It's hilarious to watch, but not quite Melee.
Daybreak? Mmmkay. That's rather okay.
There is no fast sword with a short range beam made out of solar fragments. Something spammy, but compact.

Edit: People say cloaking is useless, but it only is in singleplayer. Multiplayer with a tank that dodges stuff makes it worthwhile.