Ranger class is outmatched

[TMB50]

Actually, Shroomite was the easiest post-Plantera armor set to obtain because all of it's materials can be easily farmed (It's real problem is that the helmets don't even boost all ranged weapons and it only has one set bonus, which is something I don't understand why it wasn't changwed in 1.3 even through almost nobody liked that)., while the Piranha Gun's real strenght is that it has a constant DPS and allows focusing on dodging (And that it wastes Diabolists and Necromancers, but that is more situational).

The real problem with Vortex Armor is that it's set bonus is almost identical to Shroomite's. There is also that the Vortex Beater seems to be rather lame (I say "seems" because I can't actually play due to a random crashing bug), specially as none of it's weapons do anything really unique (The Vortex Beater, for example, could have been a weapon that can act as the Chain Gun, a shotgun, atc... rather than simply having homing explosives).

 

[leroy_jenkins]

I've also gotten up to 30,000 DPS with the S.D.M.G. and Luminite Bullets during Pumpkin Moon, solo or with friends. No other setup can approach that, except perhaps the Phantasm, which is also ranged.

i just want to fix that statement, *the only other thing that can approach that DPS is the last prism, the reason being that the last prism's max DPS agaisnt 0 defense enemies is 700k, get alot of greater mana potions and you have insane DPS on the go

 

[TMB50]

i just want to fix that statement, *the only other thing that can approach that DPS is the last prism, the reason being that the last prism's max DPS agaisnt 0 defense enemies is 700k, get alot of greater mana potions and you have insane DPS on the go

The Greater Mana Potions would reduce the DPS.

 

[leroy_jenkins]

The Greater Mana Potions would reduce the DPS.

doesn't matter, i still using them hit 19k DPS attacking the martian saucers during the invasion, and against moon lord reached 9k dps without trying, this is just the 45% bonus negating the 50% damage melter, you still can kill him easily with last prism if done right on expert mode, just takes a tiny bit longer

 

[Mercathin]

Vortex Booster sideways flight while in vortex armor stealth reaches 62 (Reached 63 mph non-stealthed) mph in game, with the range of the boost being only slightly shorter than non-stealth.

Other facts, base run speed is 17 mph, stealth with vortex's run feature is 15mph at full wind-up. Only takes a small sideways boost to achieve this. Specter boots cap at 34 in both. Acceleration takes longer while in stealth, but vortex booster can be used to come out at full speed.

It is as if the wings were made to actually work well with the armor. You lose vertical movement speed of two other solar & nebula wings and unlimited flight time of mounts but are quite mobile.

 

[Sarrih]

The Nebula armor? Not that good? Are you kidding me? The buffs stack 3 times, you can get a shiny stone regen while moving and you have the Last Prism, and you say the Mage class isn't that good?
Concerning the Ranger class, it has pretty much the best DPS pre-Moon Lord with the vortex beater + chlorophyte bullets OR the Phantasm, which still has an absurd DPS, and it can then pretty much get a permanent last prism DPS with the SDMG and luminite bullets.
With the Vortex Booster, and/or a hook, you can easily overcome the slow debuff that you get by getting invisible, which is completely worth it, since it gives the crazy amount of 80% RANGED DAMAGE, and 20% crit. It doesn't matter if you're alone or with a friend, the ranged class completely out-dps all the other, by very far. The Last Prism isn't sustainable (consumes too much mana), the Star Fury/Terrarian don't give nearly as much DPS, and the Summoner class also has less DPS. The downside? You get a slow, and it also costs bullets. You still get a good amount of armor.

Not saying that the Ranger class is overpowered, every class has it's strenghts and weaknesses, but it certainly isn't outmatched.

 

[Khaelis]

Rangers are not pushovers. As a Ranger, I know the extent of its power.

 

[DJFlare84]

You can also use Master Ninja Gear and a grappling hook to even further increase your mobility while playing magic or melee, but without the burden of being severely hampered when utilizing your set bonus.

There's a viable counterargument to any argument, but my counter-counterargument is this: Outside of specific situations where ranger is especially useful (and there are a number of them, as I've previously described), I prefer to "work around the limitations" by avoiding them completely and using magic or melee instead.

In my opinion, it's pretty straightforward. Ranger deals tremendous damage with the right setup, but outside of that strength, is subject to numerous limitations that you don't need to worry about when playing another archetype.

Note that I'm not claiming ranger "is outmatched" as the original poster was; I'm simply calling strengths and weaknesses as I see them. The archetypes don't all need to be "perfectly balanced" or "equally useful" or other such MMO-style rubbish.

I wasn't saying these tricks help "ease the burden" of the limitation. I was saying these tricks straight-up IGNORE it.

If you go into a sprint, jump and then double-tap down while in mid-air, you'll engage stealth and maintain your max running speed. And if you ever need to turn around, grapple the ground behind you and cancel before it reels you all the way in. Boom, you're still at max sprinting speed running along the ground completely invisible.

Stealth movement nerf? WHAT stealth movement nerf?

 

[Blaine]

There is micromanagement involved in employing that bag of tricks, which occupies a portion of your attention no matter how much practice you've had, and isn't the same as free and easy movement in any event. In order to grapple the ground, for example, you must aim your cursor at or past the ground, during which time you cannot aim your weapon elsewhere, since the cursor is necessary for that purpose. In open air, you can't climb (fly) quickly while also being in stealth. You must stealth mid-flight.

I've used stealth extensively, and I know how it works in practice. I use Master Ninja Gear and the grappling hook extensively with any class, not just ranged, especially during PvP. There are limitations while stealthed and they can be compensated for, especially in Vortex armor, but they most certainly don't go away.

 

[DJFlare84]

There is micromanagement involved in employing that bag of tricks, which occupies a portion of your attention no matter how much practice you've had, and isn't the same as free and easy movement in any event. In order to grapple the ground, for example, you must aim your cursor at or past the ground, during which time you cannot aim your weapon elsewhere, since the cursor is necessary for that purpose. In open air, you can't climb (fly) quickly while also being in stealth. You must stealth mid-flight.

I've used stealth extensively, and I know how it works in practice. I use Master Ninja Gear and the grappling hook extensively with any class, not just ranged, especially during PvP. There are limitations while stealthed and they can be compensated for, especially in Vortex armor, but they most certainly don't go away.

Minor flaws but valid nonetheless. I can concede that.

If you're absolutely dedicated to minmaxing your damage output to be the absolute deadliest you can inhumanly manage, then having to aim your cursor away from the enemy for even a fraction of a second can indeed be considered a pretty terrible drawback yes.

I'm okay with it, though.

 

[cancan460]

There is micromanagement involved in employing that bag of tricks, which occupies a portion of your attention no matter how much practice you've had, and isn't the same as free and easy movement in any event. In order to grapple the ground, for example, you must aim your cursor at or past the ground, during which time you cannot aim your weapon elsewhere, since the cursor is necessary for that purpose. In open air, you can't climb (fly) quickly while also being in stealth. You must stealth mid-flight.

I've used stealth extensively, and I know how it works in practice. I use Master Ninja Gear and the grappling hook extensively with any class, not just ranged, especially during PvP. There are limitations while stealthed and they can be compensated for, especially in Vortex armor, but they most certainly don't go away.

Isn't it possible to just one-shot someone with the sniper now? Seems like quite a good strategy for PvP: use the stealth, wait for the enemy to pass and fire when you get a good shot.

 

[Blaine]

Isn't it possible to just one-shot someone with the sniper now? Seems like quite a good strategy for PvP: use the stealth, wait for the enemy to pass and fire when you get a good shot.

It is, although there are no crits in PvP and the damage from a single min-maxed shot can probably be tanked with high enough Defense (or luck with Master Ninja Gear, etc.). That used to be the case, although I haven't tested it lately.

Speaking of Master Ninja Gear though, did you know you can dodge the entire planet while wearing it?

 

[Fatx_]

I really don't know how to respond to this :/ I might comment tomorrow

 

[Samrux]

Vortex Booster sideways flight while in vortex armor stealth reaches 62 (Reached 63 mph non-stealthed) mph in game, with the range of the boost being only slightly shorter than non-stealth.

Other facts, base run speed is 17 mph, stealth with vortex's run feature is 15mph at full wind-up. Only takes a small sideways boost to achieve this. Specter boots cap at 34 in both. Acceleration takes longer while in stealth, but vortex booster can be used to come out at full speed.

It is as if the wings were made to actually work well with the armor. You lose vertical movement speed of two other solar & nebula wings and unlimited flight time of mounts but are quite mobile.

This exactly. I also loved @Gotcha! 's opinions.

 

[Blaine]

I am eagerly awaiting a video of someone defeating Expert Moon Lord in stealthed Vortex without employing any excessive cheese.

 

[cancan460]

It is, although there are no crits in PvP and the damage from a single min-maxed shot can probably be tanked with high enough Defense (or luck with Master Ninja Gear, etc.). That used to be the case, although I haven't tested it lately.

Speaking of Master Ninja Gear though, did you know you can dodge the entire planet while wearing it?

Yeah, avid MNG user myself. Have had it on my main character since slightly later into 1.2, still using it.

 

[Terrasyn]

I personally think ranger is absurdly strong, and that's without going invisible. Aside from the fact that ranged weapons tend to achieve an extremely high critical hit chance thanks to Vortex armor.

There are a few things I have found with ranger that synergize well with it. The antigravity hook is almost invaluable. You can sit anywhere you want, even swing around a pole and be completely untouched by an enemy, and unload as you laugh at their feeble attempts to damage you.

The SDMG, to me, is what really shines for rangers. It's consistent and doesn't seem to be situational in most cases. It works well against large groups or bosses. Damage is near instantaneous and it has access to homing bullets, pierce bullets, and even ichor. What's not to like?

Concerning bows: While I do like the Phantasm, I find it tends to really shine against a boss, but for the random events, I believe the Tsunami is a better crowd control weapon.

However, one thing I'm having trouble understanding are Luminite Arrows vs Holy Arrows. I worry that the Luminite's ability to pierce may actually hamper it's proper damage output. Has anyone tested to see which of the two tend to perform better in overall dps? I know we can't expect true statistics, as DPS is never an accurate depiction, but I just can't decide which of the two arrows I want to use more. I have a hard time giving up Holy Arrows for anything.

 

[Suweeka]

Luminite Arrows have no piercing immunity counter. They perform much better than Holy Arrows in raw power and making defense useless, at the cost of a more limited AoE [they only hit up to 4 enemies, as opposed to an endless barrage of stars]

 

[Samrux]

Luminite Arrows have no piercing immunity counter. They perform much better than Holy Arrows in raw power and making defense useless, at the cost of a more limited AoE [they only hit up to 4 enemies, as opposed to an endless barrage of stars]

I am glad it doesn't get DPS-nullified as almost every other piercing weapon in the game. I'll go use phantasm a little more now.

 

[W1K]

Every Lunar Event weapon uses a new piercing system which counts piercing delay per-projectile rather than per-player, so essentially a piercing projectile hitting the same enemy will still be able to deal damage once every 10 frames, but multiple piercing projectiles hitting the same target will all hit, each one with its own 10 frames delay.
I'm not sure whether it truly is 10 frames, just throwing it in as an example as the old system uses that as its default value, but that's essentially how it works. It seems like a lot of projectiles from the lunar event use their own piercing timers.
Also as a note, this only affects projectiles from the Lunar Event, a Lunar Event weapon using old projectiles (Phantasm with explosive arrows for instance) SHOULD (and I'm not entirely sure as I've just right now looked into all this) still work as per the old system.