Ranger class is outmatched

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"going through blocks" IMO is not really a good example for a better weapon than ranged

No one claimed that passing through blocks automatically made those weapons "better than" ranged weapons in all situations.

However, it absolutely, unequivocally is a factor when the context is exploring a system of small caves throughout which monsters are distributed. My character can, for example, stand in a tiny cave in an antlion nest and kill every antlion that spawns anywhere onscreen almost instantly with Lunar Flare, while also lighting everything up so that I can see any loot that drops. No ranged weapon can do anything remotely similar.

If the context were an open aboveground arena, then it would be a completely different story.
 
it doesn't matter how inaccurate the weapon is as long as you have blocks to cover you, you keep swinging until you hit it ;), because most enemies can't go through blocks and a funny fact ranged has really inaccurate weapons.

Those "most enemies" aren't really a big issue to ranged weapons as well.

Ranged weapon's rate of fire and bullet velocity can make up for the player's inaccuracies.

Also, ranged weaponry has the most high rate of fire long ranged weapons.
 
rate of fire and bullet velocity can make up for the player's inaccuracies.
I wasn't talking about player's bad aim but gatligator and chaingun, and rate of fire and velocity don't make up the fact that you can't cover yourself from damage with blocks and at the same time dealing damage as melee and mage classes can now.
 
How can the highest dps class be outmatched even?

Magic and Ranged both can deal above 10k dps fairly easily, while Melee can't even surpass 5k. Tsunami dealt the highest dps out of all the game's weapons and it still is one of the best, and guess what, Luminite Arrows are a straight upgrade to Holy Arrows on that regard, pretty much doubling DPS if not more. Not even gonna mention Phantasm can output more dps than Tsunami and is much more viable even.
 
It doesn't fit the GAME's gameplay. The three fundamental rules of Terraria's combat gameplay are:

1.) Never stop moving.
2.) Don't stand still.
3.) See rules 1 and 2.

The set bonus is useful for a certain style of PvP, some multiplayer PvE, and very limited types of solo PvE (Frost and Pumpkin moon, some bosses).

At least the Vortex set bonus is a vast improvement over Shroomite. Holy crap, that was awful.
 
It doesn't fit the GAME's gameplay. The three fundamental rules of Terraria's combat gameplay are:

1.) Never stop moving.
2.) Don't stand still.
3.) See rules 1 and 2.

The set bonus is useful for a certain style of PvP, some multiplayer PvE, and very limited types of solo PvE (Frost and Pumpkin moon, some bosses).

At least the Vortex set bonus is a vast improvement over Shroomite. Holy crap, that was awful.
And you can work around the movement limitations with a grappling hook, Master Ninja Gear and a little ingenuity. Bl
 
You can also use Master Ninja Gear and a grappling hook to even further increase your mobility while playing magic or melee, but without the burden of being severely hampered when utilizing your set bonus.

There's a viable counterargument to any argument, but my counter-counterargument is this: Outside of specific situations where ranger is especially useful (and there are a number of them, as I've previously described), I prefer to "work around the limitations" by avoiding them completely and using magic or melee instead. :p

In my opinion, it's pretty straightforward. Ranger deals tremendous damage with the right setup, but outside of that strength, is subject to numerous limitations that you don't need to worry about when playing another archetype.

Note that I'm not claiming ranger "is outmatched" as the original poster was; I'm simply calling strengths and weaknesses as I see them. The archetypes don't all need to be "perfectly balanced" or "equally useful" or other such MMO-style rubbish.
 
Please let me know your opinions on this.
Well, you asked for it.

Admittedly, I don't like the shroomite armour as well, since sitting still isn't really an option in this game. Its stealth function might work better in multiplayer, both for pvp and for drawing less agro in pve.
But they completely solved this with the new armour. Not only can you go stealth on command, your damage goes up freakishly high AND you are STILL allowed to dodge! Sure, you move a lot slower, but flying up and down is usually enough to dodge most enemies/projectiles while letting your weapon unleash hellish damage on those poor sods below you. "Not even worth it." Are you mad?

Your damage output is terrifying, both in and out of stealth. Add to that the awesome selection of different arrows and bullets, usable to get your damage even higher and to make certain enemies and bosses extremely easy to beat. (Jester arrows vs segmented enemies, Crystal bullets vs bosses, Chlorophyte vs anything that moves too fast for you.) There's just no situation that a Ranger can't easily deal with.

The Piranha gun has very decent DPS and can fly across the screen killing enemies by the dozens while you're busy picking your nose. It is also brilliant to take on tough enemies like Paladins where you launch your piranha and hide behind a corner while it does your work for you. A summoner weapon? 1. It is a gun. 2. You control the piranha, unlike summoned creatures who go about their merry lives on their own.

Phantasm: Have you been using it against training dummies? No wonder you think it's bad then.
If you would have used it against enemies you would have seen that it is completely out of control. You can use your own arrows with it for added insanity, if the phantom arrows weren't enough already. A poor weapon? Not on this planet.

Why do you say the shroomite armour is harder to get than the other ones? This is simply not true. Is it the mushrooms? You can set up a farm in a couple of minutes and have stacks of shrooms a day later.

The Ranger also has the second best armour rating of the four. Sure, it doesn't even come close to a melee character, but it's still better than a mage and a LOT better than the laughable armour rating a summoner has. The Ranger can take a hit.

No healing weapons available. It's true that I wouldn't mind seeing a healing weapon of sorts for the simple reason that other damage classes have one. It feels fair. Then again, what's stopping a ranger from using vampire knives? And there's always a better solution: Don't get hit. You have ranged attacks, you don't need to be near enemies. Keep away from them.

Also: Mage nebula armour not good? As long as you keep picking up those essences enemies leave behind you'll go completely out of control in the damage department. I dunno what other bonuses you can get but from the brief time I tried it out I got a +45% damage increase. "Not good." On what planet?

TL;DR
I think you're complaining about nothing. Rangers kick unbelievably massive :red:! Black hole massive.
 
All else being equal, Nebula armor with all three stacks of its buffs seems just as survivable as Vortex armor. Point for point, in my experience you can withstand a similar amount of damage while wearing it, regardless of the lower defense value. Then again, Nebula boosters can be shared!

Of course, you don't get Nebula until the end of the game.

All I'm saying is that I think Nebula's about on par defensively, at least solo. It's more like:



Solar Flare


Vortex
Nebula


[insert two feet of screen real estate]





Stardust
 
I honestly believe Nebula is the god-tier armor here, it grants as much HP regen as Spectre granted lifesteal, it WORKS on multiplayer (unlike Spectre which pretty much lets everyone die as the life steal cap is not quite enough to keep people alive) and also buffs mana regen and damage by a crazy amount. It truly outclasses what every other armor can do, except Stardust, which has the most unique effect of all armors, but let's be honest, it's barely any useful.

I don't personally like Solar too much, while it's cool it has the effects of every other end-game melee armor mixed together (Turtle, Beetle Scale and Shell), I really dont like the fact it is inferior to both Beetle Scale in terms of DPS and Shell in terms of damage reduction. I do like the recent buff however, which makes it so you don't consume shield charges to simply dash away from danger.

While Vortex sounds pretty much the same as Shroomite, I heard it lets you hide from enemies EVEN when you are the only target around, which makes the set bonus actually incredibly useful. I haven't tried it myself however, but using it, rangers can easily out-DPS any other damage class in the game. When it comes to glass-cannons I would honestly put it on god tiers above Nebula.

I know people talk :red: about Stardust but I can't really say how bad it is as I've never used it myself.
 
...I heard it lets you hide from enemies EVEN when you are the only target around...
I can tell you that this is untrue. You might get less agro, making enemies run to other players instead of you, but if you're the only target around, enemies will still come for you.
 
I honestly believe Nebula is the god-tier armor here, it grants as much HP regen as Spectre granted lifesteal, it WORKS on multiplayer (unlike Spectre which pretty much lets everyone die as the life steal cap is not quite enough to keep people alive) and also buffs mana regen and damage by a crazy amount. It truly outclasses what every other armor can do, except Stardust, which has the most unique effect of all armors, but let's be honest, it's barely any useful.

I don't personally like Solar too much, while it's cool it has the effects of every other end-game melee armor mixed together (Turtle, Beetle Scale and Shell), I really dont like the fact it is inferior to both Beetle Scale in terms of DPS and Shell in terms of damage reduction. I do like the recent buff however, which makes it so you don't consume shield charges to simply dash away from danger.

While Vortex sounds pretty much the same as Shroomite, I heard it lets you hide from enemies EVEN when you are the only target around, which makes the set bonus actually incredibly useful. I haven't tried it myself however, but using it, rangers can easily out-DPS any other damage class in the game. When it comes to glass-cannons I would honestly put it on god tiers above Nebula.

I know people talk :red: about Stardust but I can't really say how bad it is as I've never used it myself.

I agree that Nebula is god-tier. The pickups are amazing when you're alone, and they're amazing to give to friends, too.

It's true that Vortex affords huge DPS numbers, as one night of Pumpkin Moon will readily prove, but DPS counter readings definitely aren't everything and can even be deceptive. For example, piercing bullets and arrows can give enemies 1/6th of a second invincibility frames, which is why my friend and I finished Pumpkin Moon with ~51,000 points twice: Once while I was wearing Nebula with Lunar Flare and he was wearing Solar with Star Wrath, and again with both of us wearing Vortex, min-maxed accessories, Unreal SDMGs, Luminite Bullets, stealthed the entire time. It's not hard to deal damage in Pumpkin Moon, either. At wave 15, the enemies get right on top of you and all you have to do is hold down LMB to pierce all of them. We each got up to 30,000 DPS on the meter.

Actually, strictly speaking, Last Prism can theoretically out-damage Phantasm and SDMG combined, especially with full Nebula pickups. This supports the notion that big numbers on a meter don't tell the whole story of what actually happens in practice.

Virtually every gun and bow in the game requires line of sight to the target and is stopped by blocks, except the Piranha Gun or if Chlorophyte bullets are used (and their ability to verve around blocks is quite limited). Many also require very good aim to use to their fullest potential, which, while it's great to reward careful aim, not everyone has in abundance.

* * * * * * *

The issue with the Stardust Guardian is that it sits in one spot on a solid block and has an aggro radius of about ten blocks. This works fine with, say, Illuminant Slimes, Illuminant Bats, and Chaos Elementals; the Guardian will attract their attention very well indeed, because those enemies are slow.

It doesn't work worth a crap on celestial pillar enemies no matter where you put it, because 1.) many of them fly every which way; 2.) the ones that don't fly, like solar pillar infantry, blast across the screen (and through blocks) so quickly that the guardian can't snag them; and 3.) there are a lot of them.

The Guardian can't tank Moon Lord or any of the eyes, either. So basically, the endgame Summoner set bonus—which you can't even get until you defeat the pillars and the Moon Lord—doesn't actually help at all with subsequent pillar or Moon Lord fights.
 
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My opionion? You're nuts. Phantasm has 15-20k DPS. Vortex Beater is probably the perfect balance of ease of use and raw, destructive power. Tsunami may as well shoot semi trucks, and megashark is, always was, and will continue to BE the dominant, no-questions-asked king of mid to early late hardmode.

Let's not even get into phoenix blaster being the defacto best pre hard weapon, CAR being a wonderful weapon until you get Megashark, how jester's arrows rip destroyer apart, holy arrows output absurd damage, and just to cheery the whole sundae off, how Expert EoC more or less requires frostburn arrows to take down.

Rangers kick obscene :red:. Always have.
Don't forget how the Snowman Cannon is just a pure god of a weapon during the celestial event, seeing as I wrecked all the pillars with it, along with the dang Moon Lord himself.
 
I haven't read the comments, so don't blame me if it is a double post, but you must not see a lot of people play. About 1/2 of the players I know (Including me, this is my favorite class) love playing as Ranger. The vortex armor has impossible speed, but hell, you should have a lunar/anti-grav hook by then, which would increase your speed to normal.
 
If I were to summarize every class, I'd put it this way:

Melee -
Pro: Resourceless, highest tankiness, has plenty of ranged melee weapons too
Con: Moderate DPS compared to the other classes, lacks range in certain stages of the game, difficult to use against some enemies in certain stages of the game

Ranger -
Pro: Extremely high single-target damage in end-game, offers great strategies for certain bosses
Con: Reasonable AoE damage, nothing spectacular, uses ammo

Mage -
Pro: Highest AoE damage in end-game of all classes with items like the Last Prism
Con: Arguably the most limited resource with mana, squishiest class together with summoners

Summoner -
Pro: Autonomous minions, arguably resourceless
Con: Squishiest class together with mages, reasonably moderate DPS
Notes: Basically the only class 'forced' to go hybrid to reach its full potential, using a secondary weapon together with your minions is the most optimal way to use summoner

So yeah, I'd say ranger outclasses mage and melee on the single-target damage department, though the Last Prism is so insane I might have to list that as an exception to the rule.
Overall, I do believe that rangers should have their strength focused on single-target damage and that the weapons brought out for rangers should serve to annihilate a single target at a rapid speed.
 
For my weapon as a summoner, I very often use Scourge of the Corruptor with Flasks of Ichor. The tiny eaters spread Ichor debuffs everywhere, even if you're off hiding someplace and especially in confined spaces, greatly enhancing the damage your minions cause.
 
The set bonus is useful for a certain style of PvP, some multiplayer PvE, and very limited types of solo PvE (Frost and Pumpkin moon, some bosses).

while set bonus armor for melee and magic class works always in any case, not only "certain" as stealth stuff
 
I don't understand what everyone's problem with the Vortex set bonus is. It can be toggled at any time you want to dish out more damage, unlike Shroomite, where you have to sit there for about a second and become prone to damage from bosses at which point you just move again. It gives you more bonuses than Shroomite. And you can move while it's in effect. Doesn't matter how slowly, compared to Shroomite, you can still move. Plus, if you don't like how slow you are, you can just turn it off and move to another location before turning it back without any delay.

I personally love the ranger class, and the reason it doesn't need life steal is because of how much DPS it has. Plus, you can't complain about the Spectre Hood seeing they made it completely useless once people complained for no reason (I understand that at one point it was available as soon as you joined hardmode, but that was fixed. An endgame armour should be just that; endgame, and seeing Spectre was endgame at the time, it had a right to be OP as hell) and they nerfed it into the ground.

I haven't actually used any of the endgame items, mind you. I'm still doing a playthough. But what's wrong with the Phantasm?

Like "Oh no, I used to be able to do 5k or so damage, but since the nerf I can only do 4k cry".

I don't know the numbers, but it's something like that. 4k damage would still be good.

All of your other arguments how, I see as valid. You can literally stand in one place with Turtle Armour and Vampires Knives while fighting a boss and heal more than you're damaged, as well as returning all damage to the boss., and the mask can be used to obtain insane DPS that I'm surprised nobody's complaining about it too.
 
a lot of people's argument is: nah, Rangers are OP because DPS...

well there are more things here than dps,

first: melee has the Highest defense, it could be fair because they need to get close to enemies to do damage because is melee right? oh wait, I forgot about Influx Weaver, mewomere, starwrath, and Daybreak...and the bonus set from solar flare adds an inner tabi in it and more cool things in it with no negative effects...yeah ok...and I insist they got a weapon that go through blocks so you can kill almost anything inside a little block cube to not being touched...but hey melee has the lowest dps...AND YOU WANT MORE DPS? with all the melee you have?

Mage: since 1.2.4 they have weapons that go through blocks (Blizzard staff) they have High DPS as well, and they got an amazing end-game armor that fills you up with mana, life regen and damage boosts without negative effect...summon any minion and you'll get boosters everywhere with it, you can cast a massive Laser beam...you can almost one shot kill anything with it.

Ranger: yeah Highest DPS, they can attack from affar, but also Melee can and Mage con do that too. so that doesn't count, and the stealth bonus increases DPS even more, but it's the only armor that has a negative effect...ranged doesn't have a weapon that go through blocks. and again, unless we see in the future new types of rocket ammo, rocke weapons are not as cool as they might be...maybe all this is because the high DPS but I would rather to have lower DPS in ranger class but with better features...

Ranger class maybe it's not outmatched, yeah, but in terms of weapons and armor FEATURES rangers has been left aside...
 
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