Game Mechanics removal of whip stacking

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vessal

vessal

Skeletron Prime
simply put it i and many others find it extremely sweaty and broken and i would like it gone. with the conformation of 3 new whips into the game i think it's time to remove it. i should not deal hardmode dps pre hardmode thats just unfair to other classes the fact your able to kill deerclops in 20 secs in master mode. even later bosses like plant gets shreaded in just like 14-15 secs in master btw. its broken and needs to go as it was a bug anyways. @Shyguymask if you dont like dont be a coward and post on discord. post here.
 
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Other classes deal just as much if not MORE damage than when *I* of all people Whip stack 3-4 whips. For one, Boomstick and Starfury on hybrid setups deal higher DPS on EoC than LeaSnap tag damage could ever hope to contribute. On Master Mode Plantera, Summoner cannot kill her in under 30 seconds let alone 14-15. Using Blade Staff, I killed her in 33 seconds with three whips in 1.4.3 and in around 35 seconds with four whips in 1.4.4. Meanwhile, 1.4.4 Flamethrower kills her just as fast if not faster depending on the setup. MEANWHILE, 1.4.3 Chlorophyte Shotbow main dps in a minmaxed build could kill her in a staggering 17 seconds! One last example, Daytime Empress of Light. Pre-hotfix Xeno Staff with FOUR whips + Betsy's Wrath could kill her in 20-21 seconds at the fastest. Meanwhile, Hybrid Mage/Summoner without whips can speedkill her in under 20 seconds.

Summoner whip playstyle is balanced with whip stacking, if it was removed without another whip balance overhaul then it will become outright WEAK in boss fights, by far the worst performing class/playstyle.
 
Personal attack
Shyguymask said:
Other classes deal just as much if not MORE damage than when *I* of all people Whip stack 3-4 whips. For one, Boomstick and Starfury on hybrid setups deal higher DPS on EoC than LeaSnap tag damage could ever hope to contribute. On Master Mode Plantera, Summoner cannot kill her in under 30 seconds let alone 14-15. Using Blade Staff, I killed her in 33 seconds with three whips in 1.4.3 and in around 35 seconds with four whips in 1.4.4. Meanwhile, 1.4.4 Flamethrower kills her just as fast if not faster depending on the setup. MEANWHILE, 1.4.3 Chlorophyte Shotbow main dps in a minmaxed build could kill her in a staggering 17 seconds! One last example, Daytime Empress of Light. Pre-hotfix Xeno Staff with FOUR whips + Betsy's Wrath could kill her in 20-21 seconds at the fastest. Meanwhile, Hybrid Mage/Summoner without whips can speedkill her in under 20 seconds.

Summoner whip playstyle is balanced with whip stacking, if it was removed without another whip balance overhaul then it will become outright WEAK in boss fights, by far the worst performing class/playstyle.
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no its not you little :red: let ppl suggest what they want
besides your the one that gets so defensive when your class gets insulted your the reason why the summoner community is so toxic in the first place so the fact your not liking this says alot about you

looking back i should have not said this
 
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ehtaedemit said:
no its not you little :red: let ppl suggest what they want
besides your the one that gets so defensive when your class gets insulted your the reason why the summoner community is so toxic in the first place so the fact your not liking this says alot about you
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This is no way to talk to someone giving feedback on your suggestions. @Shyguymask said absolutely nothing warranting a reaction like this.

Do not personally attack fellow members. Respond to feedback maturely or don't respond at all.
 
Kazzymodus said:
This is no way to talk to someone giving feedback on your suggestions. @Shyguymask said absolutely nothing warranting a reaction like this.

Do not personally attack fellow members. Respond to feedback maturely or don't respond at all.
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ill make sure to be more mature in the future i prob deserved it anyways now anyways back onto the topic
 
ehtaedemit said:
simply put it i and many others find it extremely sweaty and broken and i would like it gone. with the conformation of 3 new whips into the game i think it's time to remove it. i should not deal hardmode dps pre hardmode thats just unfair to other classes the fact your able to kill deerclops in 20 secs in master mode. even later bosses like plant gets shreaded in just like 14-15 secs in master btw. its broken and needs to go as it was a bug anyways. @Shyguymask if you dont like dont be a coward and post on discord. post here.
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nah keep it in its funny as hell
 
A feature should be removed when it significantly damages the enjoyment of the game, enjoyment of others, or if there is no other way around removing the feature.

Whip stacking is none of these things. Whip stacking does not make summoner significantly stronger than other classes as to overshadow other options in an environment as simple as a single player rpg-sandbox game (and none of the classes ever had, because the game's single player for the most part). Terraria is not dominantly played as a multiplayer game and there are certainly things you can think of on the whim that would remedy this issue.

Shyguymask has already talked about balancing, so I'm not gonna mention it here. However, if whip stacking somehow does become overpowered, there's many things you can do to nerf whip stacking without nerfing whips or discourage more closely engaging with the boss. You could have the benefit from each additional whip debuff decrease, make whips slower, etc. You could have penalties when you consecutively switch whips, such as penalties to range so you'd have to be even closer to deal more damage. Neither of these two options would damage any interesting aspects of summoner while still doing its intended purpose.
 
I do have to ask: Why is a "sweaty" option a  bad thing to have in the game? If the class performs perfectly fine without the technique (as the original post would imply), and the technique is "sweaty" (a term that usually refers to something requiring a lot of focus or skill), then everything should be fine, right?

For the record, I actually don' t think Whip Stacking is very difficult, but for the sake of this hypothetical, let's suppose it is: Why is a tchnique that requires extra effort in exchange for higher damage a problem?
 
Coleyohley said:
I do have to ask: Why is a "sweaty" option a  bad thing to have in the game? If the class performs perfectly fine without the technique (as the original post would imply), and the technique is "sweaty" (a term that usually refers to something requiring a lot of focus or skill), then everything should be fine, right?

For the record, I actually don' t think Whip Stacking is very difficult, but for the sake of this hypothetical, let's suppose it is: Why is a tchnique that requires extra effort in exchange for higher damage a problem?
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Well, I think that a lot of people think that way is because of one of the following things: 1. they underestimated the skill needed for such a task while overestimating its general boost to power (which a lot of "showcase" videos promote); 2. they think that having a powerful option undermines the validity of other options that may differ in play style; 3. they think that the powerful option is the only option to play the class effectively. I could very well be wrong, though. Whip stacking is none of those things once again. However, if either bullet point 2 or 3 end up being true for a given technique, that probably means that a rework is needed.
 
This mechanic seems acceptable unless it is considered while balancing the summoner class overall.
Having several alternatives is better than not. However, refusing to follow "sweaty" way should not punish players too much and make feel them as using a rather subpar option compared to other classes.

Shyguymask said:
Summoner whip playstyle is balanced with whip stacking, if it was removed without another whip balance overhaul then it will become outright WEAK in boss fights, by far the worst performing class/playstyle.
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Curiously enough, who appears to defend whip stacking mechanic made the best argument, if not to remove or nerf it, but to rework it at least and to review the summoner class.
 
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