Game Mechanics Unique Prefixes for Summoner Staves

PulimV

Terrarian
On the current state of the game, Summoner reforges aren't really that interesting: just go for the biggest damage number and call it a day. However, something that could be used to change that would be creating new Modifiers that increase specific things that benefit Summons (and Sentries). My suggestion for this is to have the Modifiers increase these five aspects (along the usual Rarity and Value)

Damage
Knockback
Attack Speed
Size
Tag Efficiency

Damage and Knockback are self-explanatory, the damage a minion causes and the knockback their attacks inflict on enemies. The other ones are a bit more interesting: Attack Speed (which could be hard to implement so there are alternatives) reduces the amount of frames between minion attacks, whether that be by increasing their movement speed or attack frequency; Size affects both minions and their projectiles (to actually do something to sentries); and Tag Efficiency increases the amount of damage that is increased from Whips tagging enemies. For example, if a Sanguine Staff with a 30% Tag Efficiency buff were used alongside a Kaleidoscope, the Sanguine Staff would cause a total of 61 damage: 35 from the Staff itself, 20 from the Kaleidoscope tag, and 6 from the Tag Efficiency bonus. Notably, in most cases it would get rounded, so it's probably only going to give 1 or 2 extra tag damage.

Now, here are my Modifier names and their respective traits:

Modifier
Damage
Speed
Size
Tag Efficiency
Knockback
Tier
Value
Shattered-10%--10% - --2-48.16%
Indolent --10% ---10%-1-34.39%
Obtuse --10% --10%--1-19%
Feral+10% - --15% --1-12.58%
Enthusiastic+15%+10% --10%+10%+1 +11.94%
Unruly+10%+10%+15%-15% -+1 +18.59%
Cooperative - - -+15%+10%+1 +18.59%
Proactive -- -+10% -+1 +32.25%
Fierce+15% +10% - - -+1 +43.5%
Fervent+15% - - -+15%+2 +60.02%
Exquisite+15%-+10%- +5%+2 +92.83%
Fabled+15%+10%+5%+15%+10%+2 +209.85%

These are still heavily based on Mage's modifiers, but imo they work better for Summoner. For example, Fabled gives a smaller damage boost than Ruthless, but the Tag Efficiency buff gives it more synergy with Whips, and the Speed buff makes attacks more frequent to offset the damage difference. Knockback and size are nearly nonexistent but the first is always present in Modifiers and the second is the best I could do without changing pre-existent mechanics (for example I could opt to give them Crit chance but that's a whole can of worms that I don't feel like opening).

So, how does this change the meta? Are these reforges actually good or would most players still use Ruthless? Or maybe these are overpowered and Summoner will actually outperform most classes with the use of Whip Stacking. This was my first attempt to actually balance something like this so I think I probably made a few billion mistakes lol
 
I think this is mostly pretty good. The attack speed modifier keeps coming up in suggestions like this, and it has the same problem it always had: a lot of minions use the wrong i-frames to properly take advantage of it. But that's also a problem that players want to be fixed anyway, so in my opinion, basing suggestions on the assumption that it will be fixed isn't a bad thing. And "tag efficiency" is a bit strange. It feels like it would be a lot better to put that on a whip, rather than a staff. But it's also a pretty small damage buff, so maybe it should just be reworked in general.
 
This idea is actually fire 🔥
 
Thanks! I admit I completely forgot about the iframe issue, it really slipped my mind lol, I do want it to be fixed but I also understand if it isn't : P

As per the Tag Efficiency thing, it's already implemented into the game and used in a Staff (the Blade Staff specifically, it was nerfed to only have 75% Tag Efficiency in 1.4.4), so I wanted it to actually Be a Thing that's implemented and shown to the player instead of hidden away in Patch Notes. I do get where you're coming from, though, it is pretty convoluted haha
 
Maybe one called Hulking/gigantic, that increases size by 20% and knockback?
 
Maybe one called Hulking/gigantic, that increases size by 20% and knockback?
That sounds like a really cool idea! There ended up being a lot of overlap between the prefixes' names (Unruly and Feral are really similar, Fierce and Fervent as well) so something like that could spice things up a bit :]
 
IMO feral should have a speed buff as feral creatures be zooming. Huge/massive would be funny if you had derpy double-sized minions created by it not just a big staff.
 
Speed is very hard to code you have to recode every AI to account for a varying attack speed. It's not just increasing attack speed, melee minions will need to have their iframes and the velocity of their attacks to work properly... Minions just weren't designed to attack 10% faster or slower depending on a prefix

Size doesnt do anything.

Something like aggro range, velocity, movement speed and whatever run into the same issue: If a minion has Bad AI, nobody uses it. A prefix that makes it slightly better will not change this. If the minion ai is consistent already, it also won't do anything to its viability. It's just a lot of coding work for practically no benefit

Tag efficiency and prooobably crit chance are the only stats you can really add to Summoner staff prefixes. And then there is the not so small problem that the entirety of Summoner just got stronger due to now having better prefixes...
 
Speed is very hard to code you have to recode every AI to account for a varying attack speed. It's not just increasing attack speed, melee minions will need to have their iframes and the velocity of their attacks to work properly... Minions just weren't designed to attack 10% faster or slower depending on a prefix
Yeah that's what I feared, perhaps it's easier to add crit chance for summons instead? Then it doesn't require any code rewriting (it would need rebalancing but I'll get there)
Size doesnt do anything.
Would size really not do anything? Like, could it not be altered to change Minion's sizes and hitboxes? Several world seeds change enemy sizes so I don't think it would require respriting minions
Tag efficiency and prooobably crit chance are the only stats you can really add to Summoner staff prefixes. And then there is the not so small problem that the entirety of Summoner just got stronger due to now having better prefixes...
It would be really hard to do but honestly I would prefer Summoner to be balanced around Modifiers, rather than the way it is currently, with them barely interacting with the system, as it is I think the class still feels disconnected from the rest of the game in some areas (e.g. no PHM Desert content, no Evil Biome content as of 1.4.4, no base Crit chance, etc.), so I'm fine with it being nerfed if it makes it more complete (that's what my posts are mostly going to be about tbh, less making Summoner a stronger class and more diversifying and filling the gaps of it). If you disagree with that notion that's fine, but my experience with Master Mode Summoner has had me pretty annoyed at some game mechanics, reforging being one of them
 
Yeah that's what I feared, perhaps it's easier to add crit chance for summons instead? Then it doesn't require any code rewriting (it would need rebalancing but I'll get there)
a fixed crit chance should be doable... hopefully

Would size really not do anything? Like, could it not be altered to change Minion's sizes and hitboxes? Several world seeds change enemy sizes so I don't think it would require respriting minions
there is just nothing you get out of making your shots 15% bigger, most minions can land their shots consistently, and those that have bad AI or inaccurate shots need more than just making their attacks a little big bigger

It would be really hard to do but honestly I would prefer Summoner to be balanced around Modifiers, rather than the way it is currently, with them barely interacting with the system, as it is I think the class still feels disconnected from the rest of the game in some areas (e.g. no PHM Desert content, no Evil Biome content as of 1.4.4, no base Crit chance, etc.), so I'm fine with it being nerfed if it makes it more complete (that's what my posts are mostly going to be about tbh, less making Summoner a stronger class and more diversifying and filling the gaps of it). If you disagree with that notion that's fine, but my experience with Master Mode Summoner has had me pretty annoyed at some game mechanics, reforging being one of them
i dont have any issues with rebalancing the class to make it more complete, just gotta keep these things in mind
 
there is just nothing you get out of making your shots 15% bigger, most minions can land their shots consistently, and those that have bad AI or inaccurate shots need more than just making their attacks a little big bigger
Ah I see, I think it could be kept if only for the novelty and making the amount of attributes fit (since all other class-specific modifiers affect five attributes) but I get how it may not do much of anything
i dont have any issues with rebalancing the class to make it more complete, just gotta keep these things in mind
Yeah I think it's really important to keep game balance in mind when making these kinds of posts, I mean, some staves could end up being insane if these were actually implemented with no restrictions or balance changes (Blade Staff with crit chance and 90% Tag Efficiency? Dear god) so I think if something like this were done it'd need to have a lot of thought put into it, I think Re-Logic is certainly capable of it but they have a lot on their plate already lol
 
there needs to be one called double crossing and it is - 15% in all stats
 
Maybe a "velocity" modifier that affects minion movement speed and projectile speed?
I imagine a higher velocity could possibly make both melee and ranged minions more consistent.

I like the idea of tag being affected by modifiers (could this work for whips as well? idk)
 
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