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tModLoader Unusacies' Battle Rods Mod - Use special fishing rods as weapons!

Unusacies

Terrarian
To Namesomething:
The issues has to do with how bobbers are programmed in vanilla terraria, causing them to as soon as they are inside, or on, water to make sure they return and stay on the surface so the fishing itself can happen. they ignore any momentum added to them underwater as they cancel it all out so they can float up and reach the surface without issue.

The troubles of underwater fighting and crowd control have been brought up various times, as they are prominent, and we are still looking for solutions that both me and JPAN agree on.
I have asked him about the possibility of adding projectiles (a while back) to the rods other than the bobbers but he disagrees with that idea as- he just said to my ears right as I was writting this: "It goes against the core mechanic of the battlerods".

Still maybe we can find other ways, like maybe altering the range of knives underwater? we are still exploring the issue...

To MadNinja:
I cant really remember what modifiers do best but something I want to point out that I am unsure anyone has taken advantage of:
The damage of Battlerods is not only affected by fishing damage related accesories and armor, or by Modifiers, Fishing damage is also calculated based on whatever is your strongest stat, by this I mean, you are allowed to use other armors that add to a completely different stat, and still see an improvement in the battlerods overall damage.

Using the Solar armor or Bettle armor both impact your fishing damage, but so would using Spectre or Nebula armor, whatever armor adds to your strongest stat. Jpan also further confides with me that the emblem accesories also add to the fishing damage, anything that adds to your strongest stat in general adds to your fishing damage.
(the Battlerods are not affected by debuffs added to weapons from those classes though, like adding ichor to melee will not add ichor to your battlerod)

Ok, of course he speaks in my ears right as I type again and tells me: "Battlerods use the ranged modifiers, the best ones would be the ones with damage and projectile velocity" (projectile velocity being the velocity with which the bobber is fired from the rod)

Another thing to note, in my opinion, whichever has the faster bobbing speed, with time will have the strongest DPS, as escalation, either from reeling or from escalation potions will be faster and reach its max damage quicker based on initial bob speed.

Furthermore, this is nolonger about your specific question sorry, but I have learned that later on things like the omnilure accessory may be counter-productive as while they add damage they reduce the number of bobbers, this reducing how fast the bobbers could bob, as there is now only one.
In certain situations, like fighting enemies with absurd amounts of defense at times just having a few moer bobbers or even a ridicolous ammount of them, all bobbing really fast (this may require the bob scope manage to hit but still) can end up being faster than trying to damage them with a singular bobber with very high damage. not because the DPS is high but because chip damage is so fast it just becomes a matter of time until they die.
This is greatly exemplified with the Dungeon Guardian who having a defense of 9999 causes so all your attacks deal 1 damage, so the faster you deal 1 damage the quicker it will die. much like grinding a rock with an industrial grinder instead of by hand with sandpaper.

Another general advice to keep in mind is that high damage will aways be trumped by critical change, as with a crit-chance of 99+% you will always do double the damage indicated on the weapon (thats how crits work in general in terraria). though to be fair this is only really manageable if you have other mods installed which allow you to reach such a level of crit-chance...

apologize for the rambling, if anything I said is hard to understand please say so and I will try explaining better, thank you.
 

๖ۣۜMadNinja

Terrarian
WOW now that was some seriously in-depth info. Now I think I understand. One thing I did notice was that if I had more than 1 accessory with "% damage" on it, the DPS dropped to half. Is this intended or a bug?

Oh and thanks to both of you for taking the time to explain the underworkings :)
 

lightbowser1

The Destroyer
Dear @JPAN, SERIOUSLY!!!! why give the beeteorite battle rod that huge damage output in first place
really.jpg

the armor is too weak compared to the rod itself and that makes no sense (yes I see the rod recipe and needs lesser amalgamate energy, a post mechanical bosses components) and that not all it has 50% fishing power and the hallowed has 45% just 5% less the rod itself, it needs a nerf.
 
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Unusacies

Terrarian
To MadNinja:
Could you clarify? do you mean %DMG in which way? like are they 2 or more accesories from the same class but not fishing related?
Are they both fishing related? are you using 2 accesories that grant you damage but belong to different classes? A screenshot could help us?
It would be of great help if you could clarify, thank you.

To LightBowser:
while it may sound strange the rod and the armor are of different tiers, this is because of when they were made. the rod was added much later on than the armor. we chose for the armor to be at the end of easy mode, just a final option pre hardmode. but the rod however was originally not included, the rod was later added as an equivalent to the hardtriad battlerod, as a method of cround control for that period in the game, as we were trying to work around the croud control issue.

The base damage of the beeteorite rod as the wiki says is 180 fishing damage, less than the hardtriad rod at 200 fishing damage.
were you wearing any damage adding accesories or armors at the time, cause like I said to MadNinja, the littlest thing you have that adds damage to any class adds to the battlerods. if without any armor and accessories the damage is not 180 then that is issue on our part.
Is the rod overpowered for the time its meant to be aquired, the post-mechanical bosses time? Is the recepie too cheap for that time in the game?

sorry for the misunderstanding though. the Beeteorite armor and rod are not really to be made at the same time however.
 

Luxrafen0

Terrarian
Hello ! Amazing mod, one of my pals love it ( a bit too much I think ... ), but there's a weird issue we have in MP causing a spam of one exception, and then desync.
It's quite problematic so here's the thing

Code:
Silently Caught Exception: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.   at UnuBattleRods.FishPlayer.checkForMimicLikeSpawns()   at Terraria.ModLoader.ModCompile.<>c.<ActivateExceptionReporting>b__15_0(Object sender, FirstChanceExceptionEventArgs exceptionArgs)
   at UnuBattleRods.FishPlayer.checkForMimicLikeSpawns()
   at UnuBattleRods.FishPlayer.PostUpdate()
   at Terraria.ModLoader.PlayerHooks.PostUpdate(Player player)
   at Terraria.Player.Update(Int32 i)
   at Terraria.Main.DoUpdate(GameTime gameTime)
   at Terraria.Main.Update(GameTime gameTime)
   at Microsoft.Xna.Framework.Game.Tick()
   at Microsoft.Xna.Framework.Game.HostIdle(Object sender, EventArgs e)
   at Microsoft.Xna.Framework.GameHost.OnIdle()
   at Microsoft.Xna.Framework.WindowsGameHost.RunOneFrame()
   at Microsoft.Xna.Framework.WindowsGameHost.ApplicationIdle(Object sender, EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Application.ThreadContext.System.Windows.Forms.UnsafeNativeMethods.IMsoComponent.FDoIdle(Int32 grfidlef)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Application.ComponentManager.System.Windows.Forms.UnsafeNativeMethods.IMsoComponentManager.FPushMessageLoop(IntPtr dwComponentID, Int32 reason, Int32 pvLoopData)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Application.ThreadContext.RunMessageLoopInner(Int32 reason, ApplicationContext context)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Application.ThreadContext.RunMessageLoop(Int32 reason, ApplicationContext context)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Application.Run(Form mainForm)
   at Microsoft.Xna.Framework.WindowsGameHost.Run()
   at Microsoft.Xna.Framework.Game.RunGame(Boolean useBlockingRun)
   at Terraria.Program.LaunchGame(String[] args, Boolean monoArgs)
   at Terraria.WindowsLaunch.Main(String[] args)

Here's the list of mods too

ColoredDamageTypes
RecipeBrowser
AmmoSwitcher
BouncyCoins
DiscordRP
FKBossHealthBar
HelpfulHotkeys
BossChecklist
ThoriumMod
CalamityMod
Fargowiltas
imkSushisMod
WMITF
SpiritMod
AlchemistNPC
dotSKN_MinionCriticalHits
Infinity
Tacklebox
MagicStorage
MaxStackPlus
OreSeeds
SummonersAssociation
LootBags
WingSlot
WeaponOut
ExperienceAndClasses
UnuBattleRods
GRealm
CrystiliumMod
BaseMod

We don't really know when and how it is caused, after some time ( or not ) it just appears like that. Ah, and we use the latest version of the mod. We don't have much information apart from that, I hope you can make something out of this. And again, great mod :merchantwink:
 

JPAN

Steampunker
Hello ! Amazing mod, one of my pals love it ( a bit too much I think ... ), but there's a weird issue we have in MP causing a spam of one exception, and then desync.
Ok, hadn't read this one before uploading the newest version, so I fixed it and uploaded a newer version. In the short tests I made in multiplayer, this spam was occurring because the mod was checking for mimic spawns in both the client and the server, and deleted the chest in one before the other. It now only checks in single player and in the server (not on the client). Let me know if it broke anything else.

Also, made an update before this one because crafted Baits were being consumed all at once and not providing the buffs (and debuffs) they should.

Version 1.4.0.3 changelog
- Fixed multiplayer Cooler spawn check
- (V. 1.4.0.2) Fixed Powered Baits sometimes failing to initialize, and then provide buffs and debuffs, if obtained through crafting or splitting a stack.
 

Technotoad64

Skeletron Prime
How do you deal with multiple enemies as a fisherman? I have five bobbers, but they all stick in one enemy.
Aiming upwards a bit spreads them out more, which should help with groups of enemies a little. The class in general is geared mostly towards high single-target damage and tends to lack crowd-control options. (In my limited experience, anyway. I haven't finished my playthrough with this mod yet.) btw, great username
 

Yog Sothoth

Terrarian
Aiming upwards a bit spreads them out more, which should help with groups of enemies a little. The class in general is geared mostly towards high single-target damage and tends to lack crowd-control options. (In my limited experience, anyway. I haven't finished my playthrough with this mod yet.) btw, great username
Hmm... Just occurred to me that some later fishing rods have innate abilities like life/mana steal. Perhaps there's a rod with an AoE on bobber!
Also thank you.
 

Namesomething

Terrarian
How do you deal with multiple enemies as a fisherman? I have five bobbers, but they all stick in one enemy.
I find it better to just focus on one target at a time while doing your best to dodge the others instead of trying to attack multiple targets at once. Fishing's all about patience after all.
 

TheLoneGamer

Steampunker
How do you deal with multiple enemies as a fisherman? I have five bobbers, but they all stick in one enemy.
From my playthrough of this mod a long time ago, early game crowd control is almost non-existence from the battle rods alone. You can craft a knife accessory that helps a bit when enemies are very close to you. However there are no upgrades for it till hardmode. I often wear accessories that either release projectiles every so often or when you get hit to help with crowd control. The late game battle rods don't seem to have problems fighting mobs of enemies at once. I haven't played this class with the newest update so I don't know if the new items can help with crowd control.

To think this is a brand new class mod, yet I haven't seen a single YouTube video about it, yet alone a recorded Fisherman playthrough. People love their single class playthroughs.
 

JPAN

Steampunker
Another minor update, fixing a few glitches that prevented certain accessories from working as intended 100% of the time.
V 1.2.0.4 Changelog
- Fixed Metronomes and Fishing knives sometimes having only the Abstract default values.
- Fixed a graphical glitch where reeling in a enemy would leave most bobbers in the old mob center, changing only the first bobber.

That should be it for bug fixing for a while, so Unu and I should begin the next content update, focusing on crowd control, including an accessory that allows for only one bobber stuck per NPC, spreading the damage out in crowds.
 

nalonnareik

Terrarian
I can't craft any of the baits. I am not having trouble crafting anything else though, from this mod or otherwise. Any advice?
 

lightbowser1

The Destroyer
I have defeated the cooler, but I didn't get the bait certificate. I am in pre-hardmode; does that matter?
the cooler is a prehardmode boss and no according to this https://github.com/JPANv2/UnuBattleRods/wiki/Baits, the only logical issues would be...
A) not having the current updated mod version "1.2.0.4" since version 1.2 the cooler and buff baits are introduced.

B)bad RNG from terraria
(regardless prehardmode/hardmode worlds, normal or expert mode the certificate is a drop from the boss (guaranted drop until you use it afterwards the certificate wont be dropped anymore on that character))

C)you must lack an ingredient to make the bait and the station to be crafted (but this needs to use the certificate bait first)
 

SlomakV

Terrarian
Doesn't Cooler only drop the Certificate pre-hard mode if you're in expert mode? I'm pretty sure that was on the tooltip when it dropped for me yesterday. Also, I just started playing this mod for the first time. It's fantastic! I've run into a few bugs, though.

I opened six Odd Crates at once while the game was autopaused, but only one mimic spawned.

Wormicide doesn't seem to do anything, at least against bosses from mods. I couldn't see any difference in damage in my testing against bosses like Calamity's Desert Scourge and Spirit's Starplate Raider. Bug aside, worm bosses seem even easier than the rest due to their massive hitboxes. An accessory that doubles your damage against them seems like it would be incredibly overpowered, assuming it was working. (Edit: I just realized that Rod mechanics and the lack of piercing mean all that extra life is harder to deal with, so the doubled damage seems much more fair. In that case, though, it seems like it might be better to simply make "doubled damage against worms" a feature of all rods without some bonus pierce-style mechanic instead of making an accessory that's 100% mandatory against worm bosses. An accessory this strong will be very tough to balance around.)

Barbed Hook doesn't increase tooltip crit chance. It does appear to actually increase crit chance, though. It also seemed to increase it by more than 10%, though that may have just been down to variance.

The right click to swap accessories feature doesn't work with a lot of your accessories. Roughly half of them don't do anything when you right-click them while they're in the vanity slot, even if they're literally the only accessory you have equipped. Some or all of them appear to be accessories that are mutually exclusive with other accessories, like Fishing Knives and multi-lures. Related to that, you also can't right-click to equip accessories if you have mutually exclusive accessories equipped. If any accessories are mutually exclusive, like the Omni-Lure and Quad-Lure, optimally they would simply swap with each other if one is equipped instead of doing nothing.

On balance:

The bee gear is so much better than everything else that I'm not sure what it'll take for me to switch away from it. I was surprised at how massive the jump from Gold Rod to Bee Rod was, especially given how early you can kill the Queen Bee. The damage is also pretty nuts, being a solid increase in base damage over the others, plus all those bees for even more damage. I expect to keep using the rod and armor well into hardmode, mainly for the excellent crowd control the other gear simply doesn't have. Hopefully the crowd control update you're working on can tighten the power rift between gear tiers a bit so I don't feel forced to use the same weapon and armor for a huge chunk of the game.

On your wiki:

There's way, way too much "here's how to play (and especially cheese) the game" there. My preference is for a wiki that gives the facts. Yours instead tells people what gear to use, when to use it, and how to most effectively cheese the content by doing things like farming a Reaver Shark right away, skipping all progression and mining Hellstone, getting a Bee Rod to crush everything else, and so on. That sort of commentary is fine for a guide in a forum post or YouTube video, but it's very out of place on a Wiki, especially an official one.
 
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SlomakV

Terrarian
Another general advice to keep in mind is that high damage will aways be trumped by critical change, as with a crit-chance of 99+% you will always do double the damage indicated on the weapon (thats how crits work in general in terraria). though to be fair this is only really manageable if you have other mods installed which allow you to reach such a level of crit-chance...
That isn't quite right. While it's true that 100% crit chance will double your damage, so will 100% increased damage. Due to the way crits work ((hit damage - enemy defense) x 2), increased damage will actually end up dealing more damage against enemies.

100 damage, 100% crit chance, enemy with 20 defense: (100 - 15) x 2 = 170 average damage
100 damage, 100% increased damage, enemy with 20 defense: (100 x 2) - 15 = 185 average damage

What you really want is balance between the two since they're multiplicative with each other. With 100 base damage and 100% increased damage, getting another 100% increased damage will only get you to 300 since it's additive with the rest of your increased damage. Getting 100% crit chance instead will get you to 400, since it's multiplicative. Keep in mind that enemies' defense values will again change the value of each.

100 damage, 100% increased damage: 100 x 2 = 200 average damage
100 damage, 100% crit chance: 100 x 2 = 200 average damage
100 damage, 50% crit chance, 50% increased damage: (100 x 1.5 x 1.5) = 225 average damage

Those same example numbers, but against Plantera (36 defense):

100 damage, 100% increased damage: (100 x 2) - 27 = 173 average damage
100 damage, 100% crit chance: (100 - 27) x 2 = 146 average damage
100 damage, 50% crit chance, 50% increased damage: ((100 x 1.5) - 27) x 1.5 = 184 average damage

One thing to remember is that increased damage is typically far easier to get than increased crit chance. While on a point-for-point basis it's true that one is objectively better than the other in various situations, you'll rarely find an actual point-for-point tradeoff when you're trying to decide on accessories. Typically you're comparing accessories with very different numbers for each value along with unrelated abilities like damage reduction. There's also more to consider, like the fact that crits have an extra 40% knockback. That can prevent a ton of damage if you're not fighting knockback-immune enemies.

Instead of spending time doing a ton of math whenever I want to swap accessories, my general rule is to go for a mix between increased damage and crit chance while giving a lot of extra value to increased damage due to enemy defenses getting huge later in the game.
 
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lightbowser1

The Destroyer
I opened six Odd Crates at once while the game was autopaused, but only one mimic spawned.
1-open a odd crate on autopaused.
2-unpaused the game (wait a second after that)
3-open another odd crate to spawn correctly another odd mimic.
 

Unusacies

Terrarian
Hey, regarding accesories not working as intended, as JPAN works on the code he keeps finding at times that things weren't even working as planned, many accesories have worked in mysterious ways, I will be real. Various accesories do have issues yes and we are working to find and fix them when possible.

Something to point out however is that at times we can't really get the accessories to work with certain mods as each person programs in their own way, and while I cant say for sure, an item like the wormicide might work with vanilla segmented enemies but not with something like modded worm bosses due to how they were coded. still we are looking on ways to solve accessory issues.

Most of the accesories that increase stats that aren't central (damage) seem to do that in the background and not show it, I dont have JPAN with me right now but its something we have noticed happens at times.

The right click to swap feature that one I can explain, in theory at least.
So a decision JPAN took very early on to try and balance things out was to make so that "related" accessories could not be equiped simultaneously, as an example you cant equip both a box of lures and a quadlure as they are both a lure count increasing accessories, not even in the social slots, as we used to play with the antisocial mod a lot, a downside to how that denial of equipment was programed was that it just wont allow you to replace accessories with the right click because it doesnt know which accesory you will be replacing, so it just denies it. its a minor inconvinience and I understand that it can be frustrating. I will speak to JPAN regarding what he might be able to do to mitigate this issue.

---

Regarding Balance:
Ok its no suprise to anyone this mod's pretty unbalanced, we are still working stuff out and trying to balance its content.
As said earlier on (I hope I said that) the mod was originally, and I guess stupidly from my part, balanced with other mods in mind, more specifically mods like Calamity which added overpowered content. For reasons that escape me, our solution to many of the issues with that OLD VERSION OF CALAMITY, was to just... bees... bees seemed to be the simples solution to crowd control at the time, alongside a solution to many other things fantastically enough.
As a result with time the bee related stuff (by that I also mean later on the beetle stuff) became our go to "if the mod aint being fun use this" solution.
Hopefully yes we can solve that issue of "bees ruling battlerods" as we tackle the crowd control aspect...

-It is important to note also that in these posts more than anything I am voicing my opinion, the information I know may be incorrent as I am just the spriter, JPAN is the coder/Programmer and as such he has ultimate say on what is programmed on the mod-

---

Regarding the wiki: I have spoken with JPAN about rewritting the wiki a few times due to complaints we have seen regarding how it is written, outdated information, and others that escape me at the moment. They are valid complaints and I personally wanted to go about rewritting the wiki, for that however I will have to wait for JPANs permission due to how GITHUB wikis work.

I want to point out that many of the things written on the GITHUB wiki were from an earlier time during the development of the mod, where we felt unsure if people would be able to play with the mod successfully. Not to condecend to the players, but more because we ourselves dont usually play completely be the rules.
An example of this can be seen in the Old Ones Army and the drops the mod adds to it. DerpotheMagnificient during the end of his run with the battlerods on youtube tried obtaining the Betsy stuff added by the mod using only the Battlerods, me and JPAN know that doing this in normal mode is nearly impossible so in expert chances are it would be actually impossible. however we usually also use the turrets from the crossover event during it because we know that the rods themselves suck at crowd control (yet again we are working on that I swear to g-). I wont blame players for playing our mod the way they wish to play it, but its important to note I personally had seriously forgotten people would just play battlerods only...

---

On that note, I recently had tried recording over 24+ hours of me playing a Battlerods run in Terraria alongside with mods like Thorium, Calamity, Spirit and a few other minor content mods, to yet again play through with the mod and see what can be done to improve it in general. This originally started because of the outdated information on the wiki saying I managed to defeat Supreme Calamitas on AN OLD VERSION OF CALAMITY, and I wanted to see if it was still possible to do with a more recent version (think its outdated now but a few weeks back it was alright) after 24+ hours, no... no I can't I gave up, it might be possible, damage certainly isint an issue but, I was getting way too frustrated at a mechanic on the Supreme Calamitas boss fight, among other things. but regardless it is not my place to judge the design choices of others, if I am not having fun I will simply not play it, basically, and I expect others to do the same too if they find battlerods sadly not to be fun.

Anyway, throughout that run I noticed that for example at first I would use minions to help with the mods faults, but stopped myself, then later I remember just chugging enough potions at a time to just become liquid on an atomic level, and for the most part it was balanced towards Calamity... which now I realize... is an issue as all other mod content was kinda just... dead on spawn... it died very quickly yes, cause I was buffed beyond reason to deal with Calamity (this issue is known however). "A glass nuclear bomb" as someone said on Youtube, unless you use like I did, glyphs from Spirit mod and other regen related stuff... ... In the end I learned above all else that no ones perfect, because I could not stop myself from cheesing certain aspects of the game for my own amusement, HOIKs being an example, and having enough life regen to survive hoards of enemies standing still with the rods out being another.
Note: the Wiki rewrite would not be based on my own commentary, it would just be updated information rewritting and tips.

This run does not exist online per-se... I only uploaded 2 Episodes of it to a youtube account and then stupidly decided to do all commentary after finishing, and with 20+ hours to commentate its either on Hiatus or dead... but the intent was there...

---

That isn't quite right...
Thank you, I don't know fully how damage calculation works in terraria, but its nice too see that it might be best to just be set halfway with both at 50% or with certain mods, both at 100%+.

---

Anyway, one last unrelated thing.

Shoutouts to LightBowser1, I really appreciate them helping out not only in this thread but on others when people ask questions regarding the respective mods, thanks Bro. To all those that do similarly, thank you as well, we dont come to the forum constantly and seeing the community helping eachother out is very nice.

Thank you and have a good one everyone.

(Also apologies for typos this is a long post and I am a bit tired)
 
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