Game Mechanics Degradation of "Terraria" combat: Homing weapons

[Kyouko Tsukino]

Since armour has low defence

survive in Hardmode Dungeon without armour and mouse for 30 minutes without homing weapons

I just love it when flawed logic bites itself in the rear. You defend a type of gear not being OP because of its low armor, which is, as demonstrated by your video, not relevant at all when it comes to being OP.

Good game, well played.

 

[Drok]

Almost all l of these "OverPowered Homing weapons" you speak of are end game so they should be strong. IF you manage to kill duke fishron at the beginning of harmode then you deserve the op weapons. No support. All these weapons are tiered just fine for what you have to kill to get them. And from my expieriences the clorphyte bullets are only good in open spaces they just hit wall in closed spaces, same with other collide-able homing weapons.

 

[Vazilin]

I just love it when flawed logic bites itself in the rear. You defend a type of gear not being OP because of its low armor, which is, as demonstrated by your video, not relevant at all when it comes to being OP.

Good game, well played.

Hunting for flaws in someones logic is not the best type of argumenting.
What you trying to do now, is compare 2 uncomparable things - the whole class and just a type of weapon.
Summoner Class is not OP, because it has one significant downside - low defence armour.
Homing weapons are OP, becuase they make impossible tasks (Hardmode dungeon without armour and mouse) possible. And this is excatly, what was shown in the video.

 

[Bryce's Games]

Ehhh, homing weapons are endgame, meant to be very OP.

 

[Dakota Spine]

Ehhh, homing weapons are endgame, meant to be very OP.

Well, not VERY OP. As said before, they are good for bring End-Game. I wouldn't say they are OP at all, really.

 

[Izzabelle]

No support.

In all honesty, I had considered your suggestion. But having watched the video, I don't think you're making a fair case. Where I feel you showed your bias toward homing weapons was in demonstrating the Horseman's Blade. Horseman's Blade is not a homing weapon, it just has a homing effect after you've hit an enemy with the actual blade. That's actually a big polarization when suggesting that ALL homing weapons are OP, because you're including whatever you need to in order to paint homing weapons as a problem -- even if it's not a homing weapon.

Or another way to put it -- imagine if I suggested that all spears are OP, but then included Magnet Sphere or Light Disc because they "still fire in one direction".

Another reason why I won't support -- is that the content you're showing is out-classed by your 1) time invested. 2) progression tier. It can take forever (pending RNG) to get an adequate stockpile of chlorophyte bullets, Scourge, Horseman's Blade, and pretty much everything else you've mentioned. By the time you have those items, and whatever other gear & accessories -- yes -- you SHOULD be able to do Hardmode dungeon without armor.

If you had shown me something clearly in the OP category like; [any homing weapon] alone getting to wave 20 Frost Moon insta-killing hordes of enemies without armor, accessories, buffs, traps, lava, regeneration, or general attention -- then I would of said "You know. Maybe homing weapons DO need a nerf". But that isn't the case.

Considering the time you have to invest to get a homing weapon and/or the progression tier you should be at when you get them -- Homing weapons are fine.

 

[TempestPhyre]

I haven't read every comment so forgive if this is redundant, and I'm well aware you put "If you don't like it then don't use it" point in there (though I haven't watched the video) but still, my argument is that but a little deeper. Yeah, if you don't like it, don't use it. Some other users also make good points, you have to put time into getting a lot of the good ones but my biggest point is that it appears you're trying to "degrade" Terraria's combat for those who already enjoy it and instead of either using different weapons or making a possibly alternate suggestion of something like.. "Please don't focus too much on future homing weapons" you seem to rather just overall nerf them.

 

[TMB50]

Hunting for flaws in someones logic is not the best type of argumenting.
What you trying to do now, is compare 2 uncomparable things - the whole class and just a type of weapon.
Summoner Class is not OP, because it has one significant downside - low defence armour.
Homing weapons are OP, becuase they make impossible tasks (Hardmode dungeon without armour and mouse) possible. And this is excatly, what was shown in the video.

I often manage (but I never don´t unless I want to challenge myself) to survive in the Dungeon for thet much time without armor. The reason is that, unless a Ragged Caster or a Giant Cursed Skull spawns, most of the enemies there can be stunlocked easily, and their AIs are easily fooled to the point that they are only dangerous if you let them.
Summoners can use other weapons while they have their minions out, and can summon them through walls.

 

[TMB50]

Since armour has low defence, this class much more balanced than others and current Yri`s summoner walktrough clearly demonstrates the intensity of this playstyle.
Tiki Armour + Best acces. + Tempest staff is a threatening combination, that`s for sure, but it`s not even close to end-game setups of other classes.

Spectre Armor used to have a lower defence before 1.2.3. That didn´t stop it from being OP due to lifesteal, which led to it becoming the only armor set that lowers damage in the entire game. That proves why it is a weak argument.
The reason why that playthrough comes off as intense is actually due to lack of summoning content, rather than actual balance (Not that the player is supposed to always stick to a "class").
What. Have you actually tried that? If coupled with a Chain Gun with Ichor bullets or any other weapons in order to maximize DPS, and/or Tiki armor is replaced with Spooky Armor, the only situation in which you would be overwhelmed is against Duke Fishron, and that is only because it is very mobile and minions don´t lead their shots.

 

[arroz2003]

I agree.. homing weapons are only OP in PVP...then again this game wasn't designed for PVP. You can make your own rules on a server. My PVP arenas have a giant walled in area with pre build props and obstacles. They have a number of hand selected items scattered strategically throughout the stage. No homing weapons to be found. Everyone starts off with no armor or weapons. You explore the Metroidvania style map to obtain the best weapons and accessories. You die you drop them all....so the match evolves over time. Its fun, fair and balanced...cause I said so.

 

[Pirtz]

I'm with the OP on this.
Also, people saying that this is endgame should be aware that more tiers will be added, and you'll see how bullty it will be when these weapons are no longer the top of the foodchain. Homing abilities and nospread projectiles remove the difference in efficiency of a ty player when compared to a good one, because you can't have more than 100% accuracy. Hopefully, some non-homing ammo is more efficient than the homing one, so in that point, guns are balanced. But weapons that have insane DPS and have themselves a homing capacity (i.e. snowman cannon or possessed hatchet) are bad gameplay-wise.

Another umbalanced aspect is lifesteal; if you get vampire knives, ichor and beetle armor you can outtank the golem (aka have it sitting on your face and just waiting with lmb pushed down.

Obviously when these two meet, the result is pathetic (spectre armor and magnet sphere).

 

[TMB50]

I'm with the OP on this.
Also, people saying that this is endgame should be aware that more tiers will be added, and you'll see how bullty it will be when these weapons are no longer the top of the foodchain. Homing abilities and nospread projectiles remove the difference in efficiency of a ty player when compared to a good one, because you can't have more than 100% accuracy. Hopefully, some non-homing ammo is more efficient than the homing one, so in that point, guns are balanced. But weapons that have insane DPS and have themselves a homing capacity (i.e. snowman cannon or possessed hatchet) are bad gameplay-wise.

Haven´t you considered the fact that most of these weapons are weaker than their non-homing counterparts, except for the Snowman Cannon and the Flairon? And the latter two are ridiculously difficult to obtain.
The Possessed Hatchet, for example, is weaker than the Paladin´s Hammer.

 

[MegaMage314 🌳]

I'm with the OP on this.
Also, people saying that this is endgame should be aware that more tiers will be added, and you'll see how bullty it will be when these weapons are no longer the top of the foodchain.

If that does happen, then homing weapons and life steal will be dealt with by the developers while they are adding the new content. Until then, the only things we have to use these weapons on are the endgame bosses we got them from (and honestly, none of these homing weapons are that powerful except for the flairon and potentially the snowman cannon)

 

[Ominick]

P.S I apologise for spelling mistakes

This is technically a spelling mistake, PS means post scriptum, after writing, but this was written in the beginning of the text...
And that is the only spelling mistake, ignoring the film....

 

[Bryce's Games]

I agree.. homing weapons are only OP in PVP...then again this game wasn't designed for PVP. You can make your own rules on a server. My PVP arenas have a giant walled in area with pre build props and obstacles. They have a number of hand selected items scattered strategically throughout the stage. No homing weapons to be found. Everyone starts off with no armor or weapons. You explore the Metroidvania style map to obtain the best weapons and accessories. You die you drop them all....so the match evolves over time. Its fun, fair and balanced...cause I said so.

Most homing weapons don't home in on players.
Also, as stated several times before, they are end-game. For instance:

Duke fishron-He drops the flairon and the razor blade typhoon. Both of these home (not including bubble gun, too short a range), but they are dropped by the (in my opinion) the hardest non-event boss in the game, which makes it totally worth it. A good reward.

Chlorophyte bullets-They might be homing, but they have one of the lowest bullet damages for hardmode. Also, they don't work well in small, confined spaces.

Snowman Cannon-Okay, this is pretty op, it almost always does 100 hp or more... but, it is a frost moon drop. Hear that? FROST MOON! The hardest event in the game. If you get this drop, you deserve it.

Finally,

The horseman's blade-Again, it is an event weapon. The sword itself does less than 90 base damage. The pumpkin heads are based around the idea you would use them against something like a boss (where it can't be one shot). They are added dps.

As for the scourge and stuff... well, that's been explained. Do I need to say more?

 

[Scironex]

People keep bringing up the Snowman Cannon. Keep in mind that a Tsunami with Holy Arrows is more powerful.

As for my opinion - Almost everything mentioned is post-Plantera. The next tier up from Plantera is the Moon Events, and in the Moon Events, Dps is king. The outliers are the Fishron drops and Chlorophyte bullets. The Fishron Drops have been explained. As for Chlorophyte Bullets, those lack power in comparison to other bullets, such as Crystal or Ichor.

The homing weapons are what we nerds like to call first order optimal strategies, (Let's call them FOOS, because that's more syllables than I care to use.) and they are an integral part of the game. Notice how the argument against what you've said has either been "They're very late in the game," or, "They lack power in comparison to other weapons." This is because most advanced players acknowledge that a weapon so easy to use comes with a trade-off in power, and as such, when they want power, they use harder weapons, and when power isn't a problem, they use easier weapons. On the other hand, lower-level players might not have the skill necessary to properly use hard, high-power weapons, and as such, may think that the easy weapons are inherently better. As they progress in skill, however, they learn to use the weapons properly, mitigating the need for ease-of-use, and allowing them to increase their power output.

Normally, FOOSes exist for the purpose of allowing newer players to understand the key points of gameplay without feeling overwhelmed by the skill needed for higher-order strategies. However, given how late these are in the game, I'd say that isn't the case. My guess is that the playtesters were having problems with early playthroughs of the Moon Events - that is to say that players were tackling the Moon Events without understanding the need to build an arena and set up traps, and were getting overwhelmed in the later waves. This is getting into conjecture, though. Either way, as long as the homing weapons remain first order, that is to say, as long as there are reasonable weapons that are more powerful, they will never degrade combat tactics.

 

[Original]

I would like to go off-topic to just say that the video and editing is awesome I will subscribe for sure!

 

[Nariofan101]

In all honesty, I had considered your suggestion, but, having watched the video, I don't think you're making a fair case. Where I feel you showed your bias toward homing weapons was in demonstrating the Horseman's Blade. The Horseman's Blade is not a homing weapon, it just has a homing effect after you've hit an enemy with the actual blade. That's actually a big polarization when suggesting that ALL homing weapons are OP, because you're including whatever you need to in order to paint homing weapons as a problem; even if it's not a homing weapon.

Or another way to put it; Imagine if I suggested that all spears are OP, but then included Magnet Sphere or Light Disc because they "still fire in one direction".

I don't agree with the OP, but I had to call this out.

In all honesty, I had considered your post, but, having watched the video, I don't think you're making a fair case. Where I feel you showed your bias against his point was in demonstrating the Horseman's Blade's lack of homing abilities. The Horseman's Blade fires homing projectiles, thus making it a homing weapon. The Flairon only shoots homing projectiles when it has room to move, and still does contact damage. Does that really make it not count as a homing weapon? You're making an edge case from ten feet inside the border. That's actually a big polarization when suggesting that he isn't right, because you're applying one example while ignoring several other, easier to attack items he mentioned, like the Magnet Sphere.

Or another way to put it: Imagine if I suggested that all guns are OP, but excluded the candy corn rifle and stake launcher because they "don't fire bullets". What does that sound like to you? Because that's what you sound like to me.




BTW FTFY

 

[MegaMage314 🌳]

Or another way to put it: Imagine if I suggested that all guns are OP, but excluded the candy corn rifle and stake launcher because they "don't fire bullets". What does that sound like to you? Because that's what you sound like to me.




BTW FTFY

Well... Technically the game considers the stake launcher to be a repeater, not a gun. But yeah, the video is pretty biased, and the horseman's blade is only OP when you're using statues.

 

[Izzabelle]

I don't agree with the OP, but I had to call this out.

In all honesty, I had considered your post, but, having watched the video, I don't think you're making a fair case. Where I feel you showed your bias against his point was in demonstrating the Horseman's Blade's lack of homing abilities. The Horseman's Blade fires homing projectiles, thus making it a homing weapon. The Flairon only shoots homing projectiles when it has room to move, and still does contact damage. Does that really make it not count as a homing weapon? You're making an edge case from ten feet inside the border. That's actually a big polarization when suggesting that he isn't right, because you're applying one example while ignoring several other, easier to attack items he mentioned, like the Magnet Sphere.

Or another way to put it: Imagine if I suggested that all guns are OP, but excluded the candy corn rifle and stake launcher because they "don't fire bullets". What does that sound like to you? Because that's what you sound like to me.




BTW FTFY

You dont need to be snide in regards to my sincere post. I stopped citing at the horseman's blade because it was the most convenient example. I could have cited chlorophyte bullets too. They are not homing weapons. They are homing effects. And both take an incredible amount of effort to attain -- and both take additional circumstances in which to produce those homing effects. Your response does not undermine the OP's bias, which my post highlights.

It only shows that the OP is of the opinion that homing ANYTHING (not just weapons) are distasteful -- not that they actually present a problem to the health of the game.

Please be more respectful and understanding in your responses. Thanks.