Thebeatbat1139
Skeletron Prime
I actually prefer the Scourage over the Knives... Far more, actually.
Game Mechanics Degradation of "Terraria" combat: Homing weapons
- Thread starter Vazilin
- Start date
FlakMaster
The Destroyer
Read what I said again.
There is nothing restricting Rangers from using equipment from other classes. This includes the Nimbus Rod, Rainbow Rod, Staff of the Frost Hydra, Optic Staff, Terra Blade as well as VK's (of which all I use on top of my Ranged primary). Whether or not VK's were meant for melee is irrelevant.
The only times where Rangers can't use life-steal is when people are doing restricted play-throughs, of which the game is not designed towards whatsoever and is completely a self-imposed restriction.
Azu
Retinazer
This is why i don't like this. Terraria is a game about choice. We shouldn't be forced to do anything.
cultist unhooded
Terrarian
Funny thing is, that is why mages have low defence.....
Wait, its like relogic planed all this. Ever mean to hit a boss for it to chase a minon all the way?
VaeVictis
Skeletron
set and accesories bonus
maybe it is, but if you use spectral set with hood, and with a melee weapon would also be irrelevant? or playing as summoner with melee armor would also be irrelevant? of course you can use any weapon, but there's a reason why a melee weapons are melee...and some gear give bouns to some type of weapons
.
maybe the game doesn't force you to chose a class, but there's a reason for some gear and accesories being for some specific type of damage if not instead of melee, magic and ranged damage would just be "damage" btw shroomite set bonus is pretty restricted if you ask me
Can you provide with an accessory or set bonus which has something among the lines of "-42% melee damage"?
In the case of diferenciating between melee, magic and ranged damage, it´s because they cater to different playstyles. Of course, it´s always possible to use all of them.
VaeVictis
Skeletron
sorry, I don't get your point but spectre hood has "40% decreased magic damage" I don't know if that can answer your question, but anyway the thread is about homming weapons, not about damage type or gear restriction
I mean that there isn´t a set bonus or an accessory that penalizes a kind of damage but boosts another one.
FlakMaster
The Destroyer
I think you 're missing the point here.
Is that what you say? Or is that what you know? Because I can use the Nimbus Rod, Rainbow Rod, summons and Terra Blade (as a back-up panic weapon) pretty well with shroomite. Not to mention you can tank the whole of wave15 Pumpkin Moon without moving relying on nothing but Vampire Knives, even with Shroomite armour. I know, because I tried.
VaeVictis
Skeletron
ah, you're right, I get the point, anyone can use any weapon...but at least for me de idea is to focus in one playstyle to get full benefits from it...
VaeVictis
Skeletron
I understand the point, I CAN use any weapon with any gear and whatever, but I like to focus in a type of damage to get full benefit from it...not a bit of this and that...that's the idea at least for me, if I would want life steal, I'd just focus on melee to get higher damage and bonuses and better lifesteal instead of staying ranged with melee weapons
FlakMaster
The Destroyer
It isn't just 'a bit of this and that', though. Nimbus Rod is a weapon you can use with any other very well. Same goes for Rainbow Rod, yet not as good. Summons are a one-time thing, turret summons remain for the same time as Nimbus Clouds. Vampire Knives are used for healing in emergencies and Terra Blade when enemies are just everywhere around you. And then your main DPS weapon which does most of the killing. That's what I end up doing with every single play-through I do.
Point being, it depends on the function of the weapon too whether I like to use it or not. And missing out on 30% extra damage or so isn't going to penalise me heavily, except for boss fights and the moon events.
Point being, it depends on the function of the weapon too whether I like to use it or not. And missing out on 30% extra damage or so isn't going to penalise me heavily, except for boss fights and the moon events.
Lecic
Steampunker
The piercing of the hammer makes it inefficient against single targets, as it flies through the target, which makes it take longer to return than the hatchet, which can return quickly to your hand after you hit something. The hammer is definitely superior against crowds, though. The person I quoted was saying the hatchet is all around weaker than the hammer, which is ridiculously untrue.
Does no one see an issue with being able to hit something that you aren't even CLOSE to aiming at? A homing weapon shouldn't be a guaranteed hit.
They rarely are in closed spaces, or against anything that doesn´t move in a straight line.
FlakMaster
The Destroyer
In combat, the Hatchet is always weaker, because you can hit them so fast with the hammer. Also bear in mind that a long enough swing actually hits a target twice as the hammer has to return to the owner too.
Lecic
Steampunker
Have you used the snowman cannon? You can hit things that are BEHIND you. It's ridiculous.
MegaMage314 🌳
Living Tree
Of course, that also means that the weapon can easily target something that you didn't want it to.
FlakMaster
The Destroyer
You can also manually hit targets by just turning around
More to the topic, I think I need to point out a great flaw with homing weapons; they don't always hit what you want them too.
neoselket
Ice Queen
in early game, on the first night, all you have to fight zombies with is a wooden sword. it swings kind of slowly, so you have to time your strike so it will knock the zombies away from you before they can hurt you. that takes a bit of skill. also, auto-swing is overdone in lategame, as it makes it way easier to fight. in my opinion, skill should never become obsolete, yet it does in endgame.
eventually, you get stuff like the flairon. in my opinion, homing weapons should be unchanged, except that they do much less damage and lack autoswing to balance the homing. it requires little skill to swing a flairon, and as endgame mobs are immune to knockback, it's basically a spamfest. i would like it if more precise weapons had greatly increased damage, like the heat ray. it pierces and does fair damage, but it sucks against bosses. so there would be weapons that are very precise and do high damage, and weapons that deal low damage and lack autouse, but spew projectiles like a hamster with a cheekful of carrots,(look it up on youtube, it's hilarious) thus balancing it out.
wo the more exact things i would change would be:
chlorophyte bullets do 4 damage lessthan the leading brand but the homing causes the bullets to hit far more often, resulting in a MUCH higher DPS. i would reduce the damage by 3 or so. and remember, the gun has a damage value too, and many hardmode guns have very high fire rate.
the heat ray would do twice as much damage as it currently does, as it only hits each enemy once with each fire, while weapons like the flairon hit several times per click and do roughly the same damage each.
the flairon would be nerfed to about 40 damage, with each bubble doing 50% the full damage. also, it would no longer autouse. autouse, when removed, makes players time their clicks correctly to get the most out of their weapon. also, the scourge of the corruptor would be mostly unchanged, the low number of projectiles and halved damage of the homing seems pretty well balanced to me, although i would remove the autouse.
the tsunami would shoot only 3 arrows per click, and the arrows not in the middle would either deal halved damage, or lose their special effect.(venom, star rain, bouncing) and it would consume 3 arrows per use.
razorblade typhoon would be mostly unchanged, but the damage would be SEVERELY nerfed to compensate for the homing, speed, and infinite piercing.
i know that anything that makes the game less OP is always poorly recieved, as players like it to be easipeezilemonsqueezy later on, but i, like the original poster, feel that this is too big of an issue to remain unnoticed. many other games have super easy to use weapons that make the game boring, like the ICBM from spore, the rapid-click ability from minecraft, and others, but terraria seems like the kind of game, to me, that breaks away from the traditional mainstream designs of most other games.
people often say "it's endgame, it's supposed to be super powerful" but that is never an excuse for removing skill from a game. one thing that made me like terraria originally was the fact that even in endgame, enemies were still a challenge. unlike in minecraft, for instance, you could not totally just stomp monsters even with the best gear in the game. this was(mostly) true in terraria until beetle armor, vampire knives, and the terra lasermachinegun were added. i sometimes would die in the hardmode dungeon even with turtle armor(the highest defense armor in the game at the time), the terra blade, and the scourge of the corruptor.
take the swords from minecraft. no, don't actually do that, people don't want to fight with axes. but in the old versions, no matter how fast you clicked, you could only swing it at about one swing per 1.5 seconds, so you had to time your swings right to kill things at maximum speed. now, you can just spam left mouse and you will attack way more rapidly than was ever possible before, and with much less skill required.
also, the terra blade is annoying as it is basically a lasergun that consumes no ammo or mana, deals tons of damage, pierces, gain sa high damage boost from the most defensive armor in the game, and deals even more damage up close. i would increase the damage, make it so the beam does half the damage of the blade, and remove the ability to autoswing. basically make it like how it was in 1.2.2 but with the blade damage increased and the beam damage decreased. people use it more like a gun than a sword as it is now, and that completely ruins the point of melee and the need for high defense armor as melee has just as much range as ranged now.
"if you don't like them, don't use them"
the thing is, even if you don't use them, everyone else will. and before you say "you play the game your way, we play it ours" remember that games are supposed to be a challenge. that's why they make restrictions, like "you die if your health reaches 0" or "you need ammo to shoot". they do that to make the game a challenge, but when they add things that require almost no skill whatsoever to use to devastating effect, that removes the challenge. in 1.2.2, i could barely survive the frostmoon, but when the new versions came out and i used beetle armor and a flairon, i STOMPED it into the ground. same skill, more power, less challenge, more boring.
with all that said, feel free to argue against my point and say it's ridiculous that i would support this, but i needed to say this.
eventually, you get stuff like the flairon. in my opinion, homing weapons should be unchanged, except that they do much less damage and lack autoswing to balance the homing. it requires little skill to swing a flairon, and as endgame mobs are immune to knockback, it's basically a spamfest. i would like it if more precise weapons had greatly increased damage, like the heat ray. it pierces and does fair damage, but it sucks against bosses. so there would be weapons that are very precise and do high damage, and weapons that deal low damage and lack autouse, but spew projectiles like a hamster with a cheekful of carrots,(look it up on youtube, it's hilarious) thus balancing it out.
wo the more exact things i would change would be:
chlorophyte bullets do 4 damage less
the heat ray would do twice as much damage as it currently does, as it only hits each enemy once with each fire, while weapons like the flairon hit several times per click and do roughly the same damage each.
the flairon would be nerfed to about 40 damage, with each bubble doing 50% the full damage. also, it would no longer autouse. autouse, when removed, makes players time their clicks correctly to get the most out of their weapon. also, the scourge of the corruptor would be mostly unchanged, the low number of projectiles and halved damage of the homing seems pretty well balanced to me, although i would remove the autouse.
the tsunami would shoot only 3 arrows per click, and the arrows not in the middle would either deal halved damage, or lose their special effect.(venom, star rain, bouncing) and it would consume 3 arrows per use.
razorblade typhoon would be mostly unchanged, but the damage would be SEVERELY nerfed to compensate for the homing, speed, and infinite piercing.
i know that anything that makes the game less OP is always poorly recieved, as players like it to be easipeezilemonsqueezy later on, but i, like the original poster, feel that this is too big of an issue to remain unnoticed. many other games have super easy to use weapons that make the game boring, like the ICBM from spore, the rapid-click ability from minecraft, and others, but terraria seems like the kind of game, to me, that breaks away from the traditional mainstream designs of most other games.
people often say "it's endgame, it's supposed to be super powerful" but that is never an excuse for removing skill from a game. one thing that made me like terraria originally was the fact that even in endgame, enemies were still a challenge. unlike in minecraft, for instance, you could not totally just stomp monsters even with the best gear in the game. this was(mostly) true in terraria until beetle armor, vampire knives, and the terra lasermachinegun were added. i sometimes would die in the hardmode dungeon even with turtle armor(the highest defense armor in the game at the time), the terra blade, and the scourge of the corruptor.
take the swords from minecraft. no, don't actually do that, people don't want to fight with axes. but in the old versions, no matter how fast you clicked, you could only swing it at about one swing per 1.5 seconds, so you had to time your swings right to kill things at maximum speed. now, you can just spam left mouse and you will attack way more rapidly than was ever possible before, and with much less skill required.
also, the terra blade is annoying as it is basically a lasergun that consumes no ammo or mana, deals tons of damage, pierces, gain sa high damage boost from the most defensive armor in the game, and deals even more damage up close. i would increase the damage, make it so the beam does half the damage of the blade, and remove the ability to autoswing. basically make it like how it was in 1.2.2 but with the blade damage increased and the beam damage decreased. people use it more like a gun than a sword as it is now, and that completely ruins the point of melee and the need for high defense armor as melee has just as much range as ranged now.
"if you don't like them, don't use them"
the thing is, even if you don't use them, everyone else will. and before you say "you play the game your way, we play it ours" remember that games are supposed to be a challenge. that's why they make restrictions, like "you die if your health reaches 0" or "you need ammo to shoot". they do that to make the game a challenge, but when they add things that require almost no skill whatsoever to use to devastating effect, that removes the challenge. in 1.2.2, i could barely survive the frostmoon, but when the new versions came out and i used beetle armor and a flairon, i STOMPED it into the ground. same skill, more power, less challenge, more boring.
with all that said, feel free to argue against my point and say it's ridiculous that i would support this, but i needed to say this.
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FlakMaster
The Destroyer
As a Ranger myself, I've never really understood why people like Chloro Bullets. In comparison to Crystal or Explosive, they're just awful.
Bullet weapons conquer the realm of velocity; you get access to very fast projectiles with these weapons early on. Is it really that hard to lead your shots a little, on a 2-D game? Why have 100% accuracy for 'maximum' DPS when crystal effectively doubles your damage in the first place (which also means you could miss a lot of shots and still deal better damage than chloro)?