Weapons & Equip Balancing Shadow Orbs and Crimson Hearts

[DJFlare84]

Moving the Band of Starpower isn't a compromise, though. That's completely moving Mana-based accessories from the Corruption. Keeping them there is the exact opposite, leaving all four accessories (Band of Starpower, Mana Regen Band, Magic Cuffs, and Celestial Cuffs) as being Corruption-exclusive. The middle-ground is letting two accessories be available on all worlds (Band of Starpower and Band of Mana Regen) while still having three Corrupt-exclusive ones (the Mana Brace, Magic Cuffs, and Celestial Cuffs).

The reason why I favor the middle-ground is because I think Baconfry's suggestion for new Crimson accessory upgrades would fit in perfectly. Instead of having the Mana Brace, Magic Cuffs, and Celestial Cuffs, the Crimson would instead get the Panic Necklace, Blood Pressure Cuffs, and Cordial Cuffs.

Okay, so I misunderstood the goal. I THOUGHT the intention was to make Celestial Cuffs available on all worlds by moving the Band of Starpower out of the corruption so all worlds could get it.

Instead you wanted the Crimson to have equally important accessories even though they're for a different class.

I don't like it quite as much but I can't say it doesn't make sense. Alright.

 

[SzGamer227]

For some reason, the devs are intent on making the Crimson classless where Corruption is not. Shadow armor is Melee oriented, Unholy Arrows are Corruption-exclusive, and, of course, the Band of Starpower and its ilk. No class escapes.

 

[DJFlare84]

For some reason, the devs are intent on making the Crimson classless where Corruption is not. Shadow armor is Melee oriented, Unholy Arrows are Corruption-exclusive, and, of course, the Band of Starpower and its ilk. No class escapes.

Overall it seems like the Crimson isn't JUST classless, it's just plain better.

The Crimson Armor has no specific class bonuses. Just incredible life regen and overall damage bonus.

There's so much wrong with the balance of both biomes, really. It'd be nice if BOTH were classless and they simply made a new melee armor that can be obtained elsewhere...

 

[The Hexagonal Donut]

For one, my recommendation is pitch the Mana Brace, make a new accessory following the same vein that follows the actual theme Corruption goes for that you even stated yourself- melee. Say, an accessory that, when you take a hit, increases your melee speed by x%- still follows the same "increase x when hit", but more focused on melee since that's the pre-existing theme of Corruption's equipment.

Also, being classless is actually far more advantageous because damage boost across all classes.

ALSO, while we're on the topic of Crimson, I noticed a bit of a contradiction in its trends- if you look at the stats for some of the weapons, you'll notice that Crimtane weapons tend to be higher in damage, but slower. And yet, there's an accessory exclusive to Crimson that boosts your movement speed, essentially making you faster- does anyone else see a contradiction here? I'm sorry, that just bugs the hell out of me.

 

[SzGamer227]

Melee.

What? It's lenient towards Melee just as much as it's lenient towards Magic. Corruption has a theme of class diversity, not leniency towards any single one. Melee gets armor, Magic gets a series of upgrades, and Ranged gets a unique type of ammo. Everything else is the standard early game equipment that is shared by the Crimson just as much as the Corruption.

 

[The Hexagonal Donut]

What? It's lenient towards Melee just as much as it's lenient towards Magic. Corruption has a theme of class diversity, not leniency towards any single one. Melee gets armor, Magic gets a series of upgrades, and Ranged gets a unique type of ammo. Everything else is the standard early game equipment that is shared by the Crimson just as much as the Corruption.

In terms of raw bonuses and whatnot right from the start, you're actually completely wrong- the band of starpower, while it can be a bit useful early on, very quickly becomes null, whereas the Shadow armor lasts far longer and is almost a required step in progression unless you plan on tackling Jungle, Meteor, or Necro armor, the former of which is needlessly grindy, and the latter of which is much harder to obtain (relatively, anyway). This automatically leans favor towards melee considering the entire Shadow set pretty much focuses on melee specifically. And yeah, Unholy Arrows are useful, but they're only one side of the three-sided Ranged spectrum (one side of which isn't accessible until post-Planty, but still). Plus. It's an ammo type. Woohoo. A few extra points of damage and piercing. If there were actual dedicated Ranged items your argument might be valid on that subject, but Unholy Arrows are literally all you get, and oh hey, you can get them from the Arms Dealer post-EoW (and possible BoC, though I'm not too sure about this one) at night and all the time in hardmode, regardless of world.

Overall Corruption leans far more in favor of melee than any other class, regardless of what you might say on the matter.

EDIT: Also on further thought I also have to point out the fact that, while Corruption does drop ranged, melee, and magic weapons from Shadow Orbs, all of which are useful at some point, especially the latter, the presence of Night's Edge reinforces my point even further- no other class gets a big ol' culmination weapon of epic proportions. Following that it could very much be argued that Corruption is melee-oriented, given that Night's Edge is very clearly Corruption-themed.

 

[SzGamer227]

Overall Corruption leans far more in favor of melee than any other class, regardless of what you might say on the matter.

It's not any more Melee-oriented than the Crimson is outside of an armor set, and an armor set hardly qualifies Corruption as being completely Melee-themed.

EDIT: Also on further thought I also have to point out the fact that, while Corruption does drop ranged, melee, and magic weapons from Shadow Orbs, all of which are useful at some point, especially the latter, the presence of Night's Edge reinforces my point even further- no other class gets a big ol' culmination weapon of epic proportions. Following that it could very much be argued that Corruption is melee-oriented, given that Night's Edge is very clearly Corruption-themed.

Night's Edge is a available on Crimson worlds, too, you know. This doesn't prove your point at all.

 

[The Hexagonal Donut]

It's not any more Melee-oriented than the Crimson is outside of an armor set, and an armor set hardly qualifies Corruption as being completely Melee-themed.

Except that's incorrect, both your assumption on an armor set not qualifying (which, again, unless you want to track down meteors or grind materials in the dungeon/jungle, is pretty much required, ESPECIALLY for new players), and your assumption that I was implying that Corruption is completely Melee-themed, which is not what I said- I said it heavily leant in favor of melee. There is a difference. More to the point though, Shadow Armor is a major step in armor progression- so yes, it does qualify. (By contrast, Crimson is far more classless due to having no particular focus on anything- the Panic Necklace can be useful for melee users, but it can also be useful to pretty much anyone.)

Night's Edge is a available on Crimson worlds, too, you know. This doesn't prove your point at all.

You say this as if it changes the fact that the sword is still completely Corruption-themed, ESPECIALLY when the True version is taken into consideration. It still counts towards Corruption- it always has.

 

[SzGamer227]

You say this as if it changes the fact that the sword is still completely Corruption-themed, ESPECIALLY when the True version is taken into consideration. It still counts towards Corruption- it always has.

Weren't you saying in the other thread that themes aren't relevant? ಠ_ಠ

Anyways, this has clearly become a matter purely of opinion. you say that Meteor hunting is a grind, and is therefore disqualified, but that's just your opinion. I find Meteors easy to locate and harvest, and there's the fact that you don't even have to fight a boss to get it.

If you think Ranger armor could use some help, then come up with a solution. Don't use it as evidence towards a pattern only you seem to perceive on a completely unrelated topic.

I'm done with this. If you're just going to say "It should be a Melee accessory instead because Corruption has Melee armor," then I will remain unconvinced and stick with the Mana Brace for reasons I have already explained.

 

[Commander Crocket]

The lowdown
Shadow Orbs drop the Musket (ranged), the Shadow Orb spell (relatively classless), the Vilethorn (magic), the Ball O' Hurt (melee) and the Band of Starpower (magic). As a side note, Unholy Arrows are Corruption-exclusive, and are ranged. Shadow armour is purely melee-orientated, and buffs melee and movement speed. Class score (melee/ranged/magic), 1/2/2.
Demon Hearts drop The Undertaker (ranged), the Panic Necklace (classless), the Crimson Rod (magic) and The Rotted Fork (melee). Crimson armour is mainly melee and ranger orientated, as there is only a buff in damage and HP regen, not MP. Also, due to the increased HP regen, it's arguably the best set of pre-hardmode armour. Class score (melee/ranged/magic), 1/1/1
Discounting the armour, the Corruption yields one melee item, two magic items and one ranged item; the Crimson yields one melee item, one magic item and one ranged item.

The implications
The Corruption in terms of loot has two for magic, whereas the Crimson has one. I would agree that the Crimson was relatively classless, though it only seems to be so. If one factors in the armours, and adds class points based on the areas of expertise of the armour, the class scores tally to 2/2/2 for the Corruption, and 2/2/1 for the Crimson. Thus, we can see that the Corruption caters for all classes, whereas the Crimson only caters for melee and ranged users. The difference? The Crimson lacks a magic item to balance the figures.
However, Crimson loot on the whole is more viable than Corruption loot, as the enemies there are more aggressive and tend to pose a greater threat to the player initially, whereas the Corruption seems to favour utility rather than raw firepower/survival, as the terrain poses a greater threat than the enemies themselves do. Thus, less emphasis is placed on damage output, and more is placed on augmenting other abilities, in the form of providing a consistent light source and increasing the total MP of a player.

My opinion?
To conclude, I support this, but the two "evil" biomes were clearly meant to differ. So I'm two ways about this - on one hand, they were not created to be equal, but on the other, yes; it's true that some form of balance is needed, so that these biomes can truly be parallels and alternatives to one another. This post was based on my experience with the game, and thus you are free to debate it at your leisure.