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PC Journey's End - the problems and maybe potential solutions

Piterros990

Duke Fishron
I've just finished a playthrough of Master Mode, having spent roughly 90+ hours doing various thing besides purely progressing and enjoying Journey's End to its maximum. However, as Terraria has a special place in my heart when it comes to games, and I want it to become as best as it can possibly get. So in the meantime of playing I've decided to take notes of what bothered me, and maybe present some solutions.

Master Mode
This one has been talked about a lot, and for a reason. It's the thing I call "lazy hard mode". While the addition of Expert mode was almost like a blessing, a fantastic "harder mode", Master Mode feels... boring. You take more damage, enemies have way more health. Regarding rewards, yes, there are a few mounts that are fantastic (Black Spot), and you definitely can't complain about the extra accessory slot. The problem is, the mode doesn't add any new mechanics. Honestly besides a few fun items, all it adds is frustration on every step - because literally anything can kill you at any point of the game (everything from dart traps dealing 130 damage when you first go down into a cave to some enemies dealing more than 400 damage from the start to the late ends of hardmode). The biggest problem and disappointment comes from the fact, that this mode really had potential - and it really feels wasted.

As for a solution, well, I would personally think this mode has to be rebuilt from ground zero. Although, it shouldn't be a problem since there isn't much new to begin with (only stat changes). I would probably add some new mechanics - I dunno, extra boss attacks, extra enemy attacks and patterns, something that will indeed make the game more difficult and frustrating, but make it a "fun frustration" - so something that is unique, and not just "lazy hard mode" aka stat buffs.

Vanity accessories
This has bothered me insanely. I've already made a thread about it on the forums here and seen others complain too. The problem is, many people have used the vanity accessory slots as a practical way of quickly swapping a loadout, for multiple purposes. Some poeple want to quickly exchange stuff like Bezoar or emblems for combat, while others (including me) wanted to quickly swap building gear (Extendo Grip, Brick Layer, Cement Mixer). Especially that they changed it so now you can only quickly swap the accessory in the first slot, you have to manually switch all 3 accessories, which is insanely annoying the more you do it. And now they've added Chisel which is also a common one to swap.

Solution? Bring back all accessories to be placeable in vanity. I don't care that it was used as "extra inventory space", you literally can do it with all armor and other accessories that are not necessarily swappable (like let's say you find Hermes Boots underground, you can place them into vanity). Even today - I have literally half of my inventory always filled, with items like stat showers, potions, alt mounts, tools etc. That's why I see absolutely no reason for this mechanic getting removed.

Dungeon hazards
Dungeon was a pain in the first place, not gonna lie. But now, with all the tweaks, it's quite an annoyance. So now spikes have separate i-frames from enemies. Okay, I understand, to kill the cheeses - but in the dungeon, it hurts so bad if you touch a spike accidentally, then immediately get hit by an enemy, which pushes you back into spikes. Which is now a common threat because spikes stick out further now, sometimes blocking the ways in such a way that you can't get through without hurting yourself or destroying the spikes. Also the breaking blocks, while they are really cool with those huge traps (holes with spikes), blocking the ways, having to mine through? It's quite annoying, unless it would be made so you can destroy it with projectiles. Especially when you accidentally break a wall and then need to trash it because you don't want your inventory cluttered.

I feel like dungeon didn't need those buffs. Like, okay, new content, sure, but this went kinda far imo. I don't even know how many graveyards have I destroyed there and how much time have I wasted descending the same path every single time just to die within few minutes. Although, this can be an issue regarding Master mode too, so I'd like to hear what others think about the changes. But breakable bricks are something that I'd definitely remove from normal corridors (or at least make them vulnerable to weapons).

Desert hazards
Can't deny, I didn't spend too much time in the underground desert, but I've seen enough and I've destroyed enough of my friends' tombstones down there. Rolling Cactuses, as funny as they are (made me laugh greatly just before I got hit by one xD), they shouldn't share damage with boulders. The corridors in the desert are much tighter and sometimes it's impossible not to get hit by them. And they are super easy to trigger too, as you're often inside the chaos of fighting the little larvas. Desert is freaking deadly now, if it wasn't deadly enough before. I feel like Rolling Cactus should get its damage reduced, at least a little.

Drills still borked
Yeah... So the mining speed of drills was increased, sure. It was necessary because before 1.4 everything about pickaxes was better (the fact they were faster for some reason and you could use them for defense), making drills redundant. And now... Drills are still worse. Sure, they dig faster. But for some reason they don't benefit from mining buffs. So now, you grab the Chisel, Mining Potion, and all of the sudden pickaxe is better than a drill of the same type. While I don't have a recording, you can test it for yourself, and the difference is really visible - you can clearly see the pickaxe getting faster the more buffs you have, while drill speed is static no matter what. And now they even decreased the range on drills, so they are even more useless than they used to be.

Blood Moon fishing
That's another one that is a fun concept, but could be better. I mean, farming for specific weapons from Hemogoblin or Dreadnautilus is tedious. I wouldn't mind if those enemies were just difficult to kill. But in order to get any drops, you need to first wait for blood moon, then wait to catch the one fish you want (and not get wrecked by Blood Eel in the meantime), which is also a 1/3 chance, and then they have like 10% chance to drop their specific weapons? Those enemies are really tanky and hit like a truck, and after waiting for one to spawn you have such a small chance to get the thing you want. I can't even tell how good those weapons are, as at the beginning of hardmode, when they are theoretically placed tier-wise, because from like 5+ blood moons spend entirely on fishing and fighting the mobs with best pre-mech gear available I couldn't get any because of that drop rate. Well, yeah, I could use luck potions and other things. But it wouldn't make too much impact... and problems shouldn't be solved with poorly implemented solutions. Speaking of luck...

Ladybug Luck
I've already made a thread about this one, that's why I'll keep this short and simple - ladybug luck should be visible as a buff.

Prismatic Lacewing
With all the limitations to them spawning, it's horrible. With a candle, in a town, with hallowed torches, I can get one, max two (only happened once out of like 30 nights) Lacewings. I feel like either their spawn rate should be increased or they shouldn't be limited to spawn between 7:30-12:00 only. From my experience most of them spawn around 11, which also leaves you with half the night left, so (especially on master) you have to wait for the next night just so you can be sure to have enough time to defeat her. And if you finish the fight after starting it at the beginning of the night, you won't have time to spawn more Lacewings.

Maybe the low spawn rate wouldn't be a problem, if it wasn't for the fact that one weapon has 2% drop chance, and another drops when you no-hit her, so you need a ton of lacewings, either to farm the weapon (which I was lucky to get from the first kill, but I'm sure there are people who have killed her 50 times and still haven't got it), or practise the fight (for the no-hit).

Titanium Armor
Okay... now this armor has fallen from the top tier to absolute bottom. Honestly, it's useless now, unless you're a true-melee character with Fetid Baghnacks. I don't know how, but the set bonus should be buffed or changed entirely. On ranged characters it provides you with nothing, as most enemies can easily kill you from range, and the armor has a very short range anyway, it deals very little damage, and does nothing to projectiles.

My suggestion is to make it so it creates a halo of stars around you (like a circle around the whole character) that blocks both enemies AND projectiles. Of course it might prove too strong, but that depends on how large the radius of the halo is, how large the stars are and how quickly would they spin. Since all of those mentioned can be adjusted, I think it will be easier to balance and will actually become useful on classes other than melee and not completely outclassed by almost every other hardmode ore armor.

Pumpkin Moon bosses immunities?
Marking this one with the question mark, because I recall that before 1.4, Pumpking and Mourning Wood were both vulnerable to Ichor, and now they are completely immune to everything. I looked through and found nothing about this change in the patch notes, and it's kinda weird, like, why is it made like this? And Frost Moon was untouched. It's not anything huge, nor is it a necessity for me to have it brought back, but it seems like a strange change to me.


Journey's End was surely a great update, can't deny. But, like I mentioned - it has a few problems. Those ones I mentioned are those that caught my eye, and if they are reworked, rebalanced or fixed, I believe Terraria would become an even better game than it already is. Any opinions on my suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
 

Lord Garak

Retinazer
Everything here is correct, although I swear when I was using a Drax it appeared to benefit from a mining potion
 

sharkman0101

Spazmatism
I'd also like to see a few stat tweaks on enemies on harder difficulties if turning Master/Expert mode into more than just extreme stat bloats isn't possible, such as the Angry Dandelion and the midboss-type enemies. Why does the Angry Dandelion do over 100 damage? It can be one of the first enemies you encounter! Midbosses on the other hand, receive the "difficulty treatment" by having the same health multiplier as a run-of-the-mill enemy. That gives them massive health stats, including 10000+ health Paladins and the arbitrarily tanky Dreadnautilus clocking in at 21000 on Master. Some of these enemies definitely need more scrutiny.
 

Piterros990

Duke Fishron
Everything here is correct, although I swear when I was using a Drax it appeared to benefit from a mining potion
Actually from my experience, I crafted Drax because I saw my friend using a drill before, and it was definitely slower than Pickaxe Axe with buffs (that's why I took a note in the first place). And during writing the main post here, I went in-game and done the testing on Cobalt tools, and drill was a tiny bit faster than pickaxe with Chisel, and then when I drank the potion the difference was very visible.

I'd also like to see a few stat tweaks on enemies on harder difficulties if turning Master/Expert mode into more than just extreme stat bloats isn't possible, such as the Angry Dandelion and the midboss-type enemies. Why does the Angry Dandelion do over 100 damage? It can be one of the first enemies you encounter! Midbosses on the other hand, receive the "difficulty treatment" by having the same health multiplier as a run-of-the-mill enemy. That gives them massive health stats, including 10000+ health Paladins and the arbitrarily tanky Dreadnautilus clocking in at 21000 on Master. Some of these enemies definitely need more scrutiny.
Yeah, triple health is no joke. And wow, really those Dandelions deal so much damage? My gosh, just checked, this is hilarious xD
But yeah, it's no fun with just ridiculous stat increases.
 
Actually from my experience, I crafted Drax because I saw my friend using a drill before, and it was definitely slower than Pickaxe Axe with buffs (that's why I took a note in the first place). And during writing the main post here, I went in-game and done the testing on Cobalt tools, and drill was a tiny bit faster than pickaxe with Chisel, and then when I drank the potion the difference was very visible.


Yeah, triple health is no joke. And wow, really those Dandelions deal so much damage? My gosh, just checked, this is hilarious xD
But yeah, it's no fun with just ridiculous stat increases.
Imagine starting hardcore master mode and then you die due to an angry dandelion *cough* badger *cough*
 

WVMtnBiker

Steampunker
On the vanity issue, a few weeks ago I posted about a solution in the Player Suggestions thread for Equipment. I want to see load-outs implemented into the game. Armor load-outs, and separate Accessory load-outs. Maybe allow players to store up to half a dozen different armor and accessory combinations, easily switchable with a set of numbered/named buttons near the armor and accessory slots. They could even be assignable to a hotkey.

This would solve that problem nicely, I think. Didn't get a lot of interest though. A few likes and a comment.

As far as implementation, maybe as long as the items are in inventory, but that could get crowded quickly. Or the items are in a designated chest that the load-outs could pull from, swapping in and out of that specific chest instead of inventory.
 

Piterros990

Duke Fishron
On the vanity issue, a few weeks ago I posted about a solution in the Player Suggestions thread for Equipment. I want to see load-outs implemented into the game. Armor load-outs, and separate Accessory load-outs. Maybe allow players to store up to half a dozen different armor and accessory combinations, easily switchable with a set of numbered/named buttons near the armor and accessory slots. They could even be assignable to a hotkey.

This would solve that problem nicely, I think. Didn't get a lot of interest though. A few likes and a comment.

As far as implementation, maybe as long as the items are in inventory, but that could get crowded quickly. Or the items are in a designated chest that the load-outs could pull from, swapping in and out of that specific chest instead of inventory.
Yeah, I was thinking about suggesting a way of assigning an inventory accessory to a slot (not before you though, looking at the date you were first xd). Now that I look at it I actually made a thread about it, but yeah, just like you, a few likes and lost in the void. Later during the playing I though of an idea similiar to yours, so you could assign an accessory in inventory to a slot, and if you right-click it, it immediately gets swapped into the proper slot, and the accessory that was in that slot before get favorited automatically (if the other accessory was favorited in the first place). Oh, and another thing, while I already have develop this sort of "muscle memory" to the mounts (when falling in hellevator, right click the slime saddle -> R -> right click -> alt+click to favorite again), it can be an annoyance to most players too, that their swapped mount (or any other equipment) get unfavorited when swapped.

Oh, and adding this ability to quickly swap from chests and other storage units would be awesome too.
 

Chimey

Terrarian
Vanity accessories
This has bothered me insanely. I've already made a thread about it on the forums here and seen others complain too. The problem is, many people have used the vanity accessory slots as a practical way of quickly swapping a loadout, for multiple purposes. Some poeple want to quickly exchange stuff like Bezoar or emblems for combat, while others (including me) wanted to quickly swap building gear (Extendo Grip, Brick Layer, Cement Mixer). Especially that they changed it so now you can only quickly swap the accessory in the first slot, you have to manually switch all 3 accessories, which is insanely annoying the more you do it. And now they've added Chisel which is also a common one to swap.

Solution? Bring back all accessories to be placeable in vanity. I don't care that it was used as "extra inventory space", you literally can do it with all armor and other accessories that are not necessarily swappable (like let's say you find Hermes Boots underground, you can place them into vanity). Even today - I have literally half of my inventory always filled, with items like stat showers, potions, alt mounts, tools etc. That's why I see absolutely no reason for this mechanic getting removed.

This. this this this this THIS THIS. This change pisses me off so much!
This game is already inventory-management heavy so adding to that by having to constantly carry around and manually swap accessories is such a chore. I've been hoping and praying someone makes a mod so the accessories act like they did in 1.3 so I can start having fun again.
 
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Piterros990

Duke Fishron
This. this this this this THIS THIS. This change pisses me off so much!
This game is already inventory-management heavy so adding to that by having to constantly carry around and manually swap accessories is such a chore. I've been hoping and praying someone makes a mod so the accessories act like they did in 1.3 so I can start having fun again.
Yeah, I guess if they don't change it till they add full 1.4 mod support, then someone is surely going to make a mod for it. Though, it will be quite a disappointing move from the devs' side, because they must have seen all the complaints about it.
 

Narananas

Steampunker
Vanity accessories
This has bothered me insanely. I've already made a thread about it on the forums here and seen others complain too. The problem is, many people have used the vanity accessory slots as a practical way of quickly swapping a loadout, for multiple purposes. Some poeple want to quickly exchange stuff like Bezoar or emblems for combat, while others (including me) wanted to quickly swap building gear (Extendo Grip, Brick Layer, Cement Mixer). Especially that they changed it so now you can only quickly swap the accessory in the first slot, you have to manually switch all 3 accessories, which is insanely annoying the more you do it. And now they've added Chisel which is also a common one to swap.

Solution? Bring back all accessories to be placeable in vanity. I don't care that it was used as "extra inventory space", you literally can do it with all armor and other accessories that are not necessarily swappable (like let's say you find Hermes Boots underground, you can place them into vanity). Even today - I have literally half of my inventory always filled, with items like stat showers, potions, alt mounts, tools etc. That's why I see absolutely no reason for this mechanic getting removed.


While i agree with almost all of your points, this one really resonates. Perhaps because I didn't realise it used to be that way.

That reasoning is frustrating! Extra inventory space is a pretty pointless fear considering I have a Piggy Bank, Safe, Void Bag, and Defender's Forge. Plus a whole stack of Potion of Return. But I can't happily put all my extra accessories (the 4 max that I've been switching to for boss fights, and 2 or 3 for other uses) in my inventory. They have to go in the Piggy Bank. If I put them in my inventory it would mean it fills up faster due to less space. And that means more summoning the Piggy Bank etc when it's full. Which is just extra clicks, extra chores. As it is, it's still frustrating to have to open the Piggy Bank to swap gear, especially knowing it could have been as simple as putting those things in the inventory slots.

Also it would only be 5 extra inventory slots saved anyway. Or 6 in expert, 7 in master mode, which is fair considering the increased difficulties. Oh and minus an inventory slot for Critter Shampoo and any other vanity items.
 

BlueOfTheVoidRealm

Steampunker
how i see master mode is just that you take the time to truely master the game if you can beat it without dying or cheese you have truely mastered the mechanics of the game
 

652Graystripe

Plantera
how i see master mode is just that you take the time to truely master the game if you can beat it without dying or cheese you have truely mastered the mechanics of the game
Even if some of us are insane and want to play Master Mode, that doesn't mean we want to not have fun doing it. We may have mastered the game, but if that means mastering a game that is in some places very much artificial longevity, it certainly doesn't feel as properly challenging. There are places where Master Mode sacrifices difficulty for just stretching things out.
 

BlueOfTheVoidRealm

Steampunker
Even if some of us are insane and want to play Master Mode, that doesn't mean we want to not have fun doing it. We may have mastered the game, but if that means mastering a game that is in some places very much artificial longevity, it certainly doesn't feel as properly challenging. There are places where Master Mode sacrifices difficulty for just stretching things out.
fair point ill admit
 

Piterros990

Duke Fishron
how i see master mode is just that you take the time to truely master the game if you can beat it without dying or cheese you have truely mastered the mechanics of the game
Well, the thing is, it only makes you die faster from the same things that would kill you already (dart traps dealing 130 damage right at the beginning of the game or certain enemies who can almost one-shot you even with endgame equipment) and take much longer to kill those things. Bossfights take much longer, and while it's fine to have increased difficulty, master mode only makes bossfights and overall exploration of the world feel much more tedious because of how much you die from dumb things (or just take much longer to do them), and it doesn't make it in an interesting way (since there are no new mechanics, just buffs to health and damage).

And, well, I would argue a bit on the "mastering the mechanics" - Black Spot, due to how early it can be dropped, can easily allow you to cheese mech bosses. This is one thing I quite dislike about the mount.

Even if some of us are insane and want to play Master Mode, that doesn't mean we want to not have fun doing it. We may have mastered the game, but if that means mastering a game that is in some places very much artificial longevity, it certainly doesn't feel as properly challenging. There are places where Master Mode sacrifices difficulty for just stretching things out.
And yeah, this. It really feels like something that could've been done in a much better way. Right now it's pretty much only the "lazy hard mode".
 

Kirby737

Terrarian
Master Mode: Yea, being one shot by a random slime isn't nice, and continuously dying makes people pretty mad, especially when they create graveyards on graveyards.
Vanity Slots: I have only started playing from 1.4, so I never had any issue with it, but I can partially understand why people don't like this change.
Dungeon Hazards: agreed for the most part, the Dungeon is a big difficulty spike even though I shredded Skeletron into pieces no problem. The Cracked Dungeon Bricks being breakable by weapon projectiles is a good idea, though they don't drop anything (unless you mean that you accidentally break normal Dungeon Bricks, though you could just drop it or place it back).
Drills: while I totally agree, it isn't coming any time soon, due to how drills work.
Desert Hazards: agreed, but how about making that Rolling Cactuses can be destroyed by weapons?
Blood Moon Fishing: agree, it's already a pain spawning them, so why not have them have a big chance of dropping something?
Ladybug Luck: Agreed.
Prismatic Lacewing: make them be able to spawn during the whole night and only despawn at 5:30 AM, and sligtly increase their spawn rate, they are boss summons similar to the Bee Larva after alll
Titanium Armor: having an ore armor that early on that only helps with a single/two classes isn't good, unless you have an alternative easily available.
Pumkin Moon Bosses: Maybe there was some sort of Cheese involving debuffs? I've looked at their pages and neither is immune to more than 5 debuffs, and never were. Are you sure that your Ichor flask didn't run out mid-fight and you forgot to activate it again? If it didn't run out then you most likely found a bug.
 
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