Game Mechanics On Dungeon Fishing

[Big Sammich]

Fishing has only gotten better and better as time has gone on. Most major updates have introduced big additions to fishing. 1.4 in particular was enormous, adding fishing content for every biome that deserved it, as well as making lava fishing both accessible and worthwhile. However, through all of this, there is one area of fishing that has remained mostly untouched, and that's Dungeon fishing.

Dungeon fishing has a lot of potential to be something interesting, and in this post I will give some suggestions to help it reach that potential. The problem with Dungeon fishing has always been its accessibility, and this used to be understandable; after all, the Dungeon doesn't have predetermined water features, and it's not a biome in the same sense as the Jungle or the Corruption are biomes. But with the changes that 1.4 made to how the Dungeon generates, large pits of water are seen very often in the structure, which means Dungeon fishing is much more accessible to the player. The only problem is, the Dungeon is too dangerous for most new players to think of fishing in it, and veteran players generally have no need for the extra loot gotten from Golden Lock Boxes, as there are enough Locked Gold Chests to be found in the Dungeon to satisfy any playthrough. These, then, are the problems that remain to be fixed: new players should be alerted to Dungeon fishing, and old players should have a reason to do it.

Part 1: Introducing Dungeon Fishing
The first problem is easily solved by putting Quest fish in the Dungeon. Players who are interested in fishing will be speaking with the Angler every day to turn in quest fish, so this is a good way to point new players towards specific fishing zones. I suggest that there be three Quest fish that can be found in the Dungeon, being the following:

Spoiler: Dungeon Quest Fish

• The Fishotron, an existing Quest fish in the game, should be moved to the Dungeon. This seems obvious to me, and honestly I'm surprised it hasn't been done already.
• The Darkwater Eel, a slimy little fella who enjoys the reclusive dark corners and watery magic of the Dungeon.
  
• Finally, once the world enters Hardmode, a third Quest fish would appear in the Dungeon: the Ecto Trout, a ghostly fish infused with the ectoplasm that has begun to gather in the Dungeon.
  

These quests would only be possible to get after Skeletron is defeated, but in order to ensure that this is a feature that reaches the players, the second and seventh fishing quests after the defeat of Skeletron would be guaranteed to be Dungeon fish. Additionally, there could be certain quest rewards that are tied to these Dungeon quests, similarly to the Bumblebee Tuna. To avoid adding new items in this suggestion, I think that the informational accessories, the Tackle Bag ingredients, and the Golden Bug Net should have a greater chance of being rewarded when turning in Dungeon fishing quests. This would motivate players to fish in the Dungeon more often, while also rewarding the player for taking the risk of fishing in the Dungeon by reducing the RNG on the most desirable items that the Angler rewards.

Part 2: Making Dungeon Fishing More Worthwhile
The second problem is a knottier one. We need a reason to choose Dungeon fishing over other biomes from time to time. I have a few ideas for how this could be accomplished.

• Dungeon Crates deserve an overhaul. As they are now, they're essentially just Iron/Mythril crates with one additional item. Obsidian and Hellstone crates got their own special loot tables, and comparatively the Dungeon crates just feel a bit lackluster. I think Dungeon Crates should be changed in the following ways:
  
  Spoiler: Dungeon Crate Overhaul

  • Low tier ores (copper, tin, iron, and lead) do not drop from Dungeon and Stockade crates.
  • Dungeon and Stockade crates now have a unique selection of potions that can be gotten from them: Ammo Reservation, Titan, Summoning, Mana Regeneration, Lesser Luck, and Endurance. These potions are (mostly) very valuable, and four of them have class-specific benefits. However, to compensate for this powerful selection of potions, they drop in smaller amounts, being limited to 1-2 potions instead of the 2-4 possible with the current in-game selection.
  • Add the Water Bolt to Golden Lock Boxes. While you're unlikely to ever need this, if on the off chance you can't find a Water Bolt through exploring your Dungeon normally, you can fish for one.
  • Stockade Crates no longer have Golden Lock Boxes. The items found in these boxes aren't useful in Hardmode anyway, and since Shimmer allows you to turn Stockade Crates into Dungeon Crates, there is no loss of opportunity by removing Lock Boxes from Stockade Crates. In their place, Stockade Crates should give an item dropped by regular Mimics. I feel that this fits thematically, as the Dungeon is very chest-centric in its loot anyway, while also not breaking progression or making powering up much easier.
  • Finally, Dungeon and Stockade crates should have a chance to drop a random Dungeon painting. This would enable having multiple copies of the paintings on one world without needing to pull them from other worlds, as well as adding further variety and identity to the crates.
• There should be unique fish found in the Dungeon that are used in potions. While I recognize that at this point in development, adding new items is probably not going to happen, it's a shame to not at least try. If the Dungeon is considered its own biome in terms of fishing, it should not be the only biome without a unique potion ingredient. (Honey has Honeyfins, which act as potions in their own right.) I've come up with the following three ideas:
  
  Spoiler: Dungeon Fish used in Potions

  • Stout Stonefish: a blue fish of noteworthy ugliness. Combine with Bottled Water, a Blinkroot, and a Deathweed to make a Fury Potion, which increases melee speed by 10% for 4 minutes. (This is probably the most obvious potion idea in the world, but I think it has real merit.) This fish can be found in the Dungeon at all times.
  • Thin Stonefish: a green fish of remarkable ugliness. Combine with Bottled Water, a Blinkroot, and a Shiverthorn to make a Piercing Poion, which provides 10 armor penetration for 6 minutes. This fish only appears in the Dungeon after your world has entered Hardmode.
  • Flat Stonefish: a pink fish of significant ugliness. Combine with Bottled Water, a Blinkroot, and a Daybloom to make an Unflinching Potion, which provides knockback immunity for 8 minutes. This fish only appears in the Dungeon after Plantera has been defeated.
• The player would also be able to fish up Biome Lock Boxes. These would be added to the fishing pool after Plantera is defeated, and would supply an alternative (as well as renewable) way of getting the Biome chest weapons. It should be noted that these would not be common items to reel in. The probability of reeling in a Biome Lock Box is exactly twice as rare as reeling in an Extremely Rare catch. In numbers, this means that your chance of reeling in a Biome Lock Box is equal to fishing power / 9000, and it's hard capped at 1/12. Practically speaking, this means that if your fishing power is 100, your chance of getting a Biome Lock Box is 1.11% (1/90), and if your fishing power is 300, your chance is 3.33% (1/30). Of course, you have to consider that there are 6 different Biome keys, so while your chance of getting any Biome Lock Box is generally going to be between 1 and 3%, the chance of getting the specific one you want is much lower. There is one other benefit to reeling in a Biome Lock Box, and that is that you can shimmer Biome Lock Boxes into their corresponding Biome keys. This means that, if you have enough patience and good luck, you can get every Biome chest weapon through fishing: one box to turn into a key, and another to unlock it. Now, this would be by far the fastest way of getting Biome Keys, but it certainly isn't free. The odds are not in your favor, even with high fishing power. And since you can only fish them up post-Plantera, you also have to deal with all the tough Dungeon enemies, like Diabolists, Giant Cursed Skulls, and Paladins. If you have a good setup, you can get many Lock Boxes, but you'll need your head on a swivel the whole time, and for a lot of people it probably isn't worth the hassle.
  
  
  
  (Left to right: Jungle, Corruption, Crimson, Hallowed, Frozen, and Desert Lock Boxes)
  
  
• Finally, the Dungeon should have a fish weapon in Hardmode, in the same vein as the Corruption, Crimson and Hallow. This is the most ambitious part of this suggestion, as well as the most unnecessary, but I wanted to include it anyway. As the existing weapons gotten through fishing in biomes cover three of the four classes, it seems natural to me that there should be a Summon weapon gotten through fishing, and the Dungeon could be the place to get it. Here's what I've come up with:
  
  Spoiler: Dungeon Fishing Summon Weapon

  • Cartilage Staff
    24 summon damage
    Very weak knockback (2)
    Summons a skeletal shark to gnaw on your foes
    
  • This staff works very much like an early Hardmode version of the Stardust Dragon Staff. Instead of summoning multiple sharks, the existing shark gets longer and has increased damage. The damage increases by 25% of the initial damage for each summon, as well as adding 2 armor penetration to the shark. The shark would follow the same attack and movement patterns as the Stardust Dragon, flying around the player and going after enemies within its range, although it would be slower and would not hit as often. Also, while it would be able to go through blocks to attack enemies, it would not target enemies through blocks, so it still needs ordinary line of sight to attack enemies.
    
    
    
    
  • This item would benefit the game in a couple of ways. It's a reason to go back to the Dungeon at the beginning of Hardmode, which normally players do not do as the Dungeon does not offer new loot in early Hardmode. Additionally, as said before, it closes the gap in Hardmode fishing weapons. I also think that there should be more minions in Terraria that work like the Stardust Dragon, compounding damage onto one minion instead of summoning an army. It also would synergize well with the Firecracker, which is certainly something.

Conclusion
The Dungeon is one of the most important parts of Terraria, and deserves to be fleshed-out in as many aspects as possible. It has a very unique air compared to the rest of the game, but that air is not contributed to at all by fishing in its current state. It would be a shame to leave Dungeon fishing in the state it's in now. These ideas I've come up with are rough and unpolished, mostly spitballing ways to spice up the game, but even if my ideas aren't used at all, something ought to be done.

 

[Big Sammich]

Hmmm... in hindsight, I think a potion that provides armor penetration would be better than one that provides a dodge chance. It's more balanced and also it would fill another hole that exists in the game, being that every class-specific clickable furniture item (Bewitching Table, Crystal Ball, etc.) has a potion equivalent, except for the Sharpening Station, and I guess technically the War Table. So maybe the Thin Stonefish should do that instead. Honestly I'd rather have not suggested new potions at all, but I couldn't think of anything else.

 

[Big Sammich]

I'm still thinking about this idea. I'm not sure the Lesser Luck Potion fits in the crates. I didn't want to do Wrath/Rage, though. Maybe Thorns?

 

[EustaceCS]

These, then, are the problems that remain to be fixed: new players should be alerted to Dungeon fishing, and old players should have a reason to do it.

New players won't be able to because they're still learning (and Dungeon is a big difficulty spike for them).

And old players have a reason to do it to cash in accumulated Gold Keys pre-Shimmer already.

Not mentioning that technically there are three instances of Dungeon (pre-Hardmode, Hardmode, post-Plantera) each of which might need own biome crate overhaul - assuming that forcing the player to waste more time in Dungeon than he needs is really necessary.

Which is highly dubious affair per se due to difficulties with setting convenient fishing spot up in Dungeon because of
- inconvenient transportation to fishing spot
- enemies shooting through walls 24/7
- enemies wandering through walls
- ("by default") significantly increased monster spawn rate which is not fully countered by fishing set
- etc, etc

Hard pass.
If you're into masochism, do fishing without fishing set or something, the game allows doing so already.
If you're really into Dungeon - stick 1 (one) Luminite bar into post-Plantera Dungeon Biome crate, with some decimal as drop chance (i. e. like 0.01 or something), and forget about it. Tryhards gonna try - non-tryhards will gonna have a pleasant surprise.
(or, even better, Luminite Ore (EDITED: whatever ore people're keeping asking. Honestly, I forgot which ). People are keeping asking for it for some incompherendable reason - whack two birdies with one stone dammit!)

To avoid adding new items in this suggestion, I think that the informational accessories, the Tackle Bag ingredients, and the Golden Bug Net should have a greater chance of being rewarded when turning in Dungeon fishing quests.

Won't tell for the whole playerbase but I skip bs fishing quests (like ones sending me to honey biome. There is never right time to do fishing in honey biome) even if rewards are one-of-a-kind this-quest-specific big-chungus.
And the game have enough gated content so one more piece will be barely noticeable for general playerbase.

 

[Baconfry]

One small problem with the proposed fishing summon weapon is that the Dungeon is one of the least dangerous biomes in early hardmode (since all the hardmode Dungeon enemies are post-Plantera). If the weapon is balanced to be around the same level of usefulness as the Toxikarp/Crystal Serpent (which it should), then it would be an above-average Hardmode weapon obtained from a pre-hardmode biome, which is odd to me.

 

[Big Sammich]

New players won't be able to because they're still learning (and Dungeon is a big difficulty spike for them).

And old players have a reason to do it to cash in accumulated Gold Keys pre-Shimmer already.

Learning to fish in the Dungeon would reasonably only be done once you know the area better anyway. I don't think the difficulty spike is too much at all. Either way, my point about new players not doing it was more that most new players don't have any reason to think it would be possible. Putting quest fish in the Dungeon would solve that issue.

I find that I tend to just let gold keys accumulate instead of fishing in the Dungeon. The Golden Lock Boxes simply are not worth the trouble. That's why there needs to be something else.

Not mentioning that technically there are three instances of Dungeon (pre-Hardmode, Hardmode, post-Plantera) each of which might need own biome crate overhaul - assuming that forcing the player to waste more time in Dungeon than he needs is really necessary.

Why would this be the case? No other biome gets three crates at different points in the game. The Dungeon barely changes at all between Wall of Flesh and Plantera. And it wouldn't be wasting time if you're actually getting something good out of it.

Which is highly dubious affair per se due to difficulties with setting convenient fishing spot up in Dungeon because of
- inconvenient transportation to fishing spot
- enemies shooting through walls 24/7
- enemies wandering through walls
- ("by default") significantly increased monster spawn rate which is not fully countered by fishing set
- etc, etc

Ok, you have a real point here. I hadn't considered the Dark Casters. Ideally the player would need a good way to work around them, and it's true that there isn't really one at the moment. On the one hand, plenty of biomes have enemies that attack through walls. On the other hand, the Dungeon has these in a much higher concentration. My original post didn't address this. I feel that it could be solved in Hardmode by just tweaking the Cartilage Staff a bit, letting it target enemies through walls, but in pre-Hardmode it would be very annoying.

Hard pass.
If you're into masochism, do fishing without fishing set or something, the game allows doing so already.
If you're really into Dungeon - stick 1 (one) Luminite bar into post-Plantera Dungeon Biome crate, with some decimal as drop chance (i. e. like 0.01 or something), and forget about it. Tryhards gonna try - non-tryhards will gonna have a pleasant surprise.
(or, even better, Luminite Ore (EDITED: whatever ore people're keeping asking. Honestly, I forgot which ). People are keeping asking for it for some incompherendable reason - whack two birdies with one stone dammit!)

I disagree that this is masochism or tryharding. My whole goal here was to make it worth your while. It's not masochism if there's a point to it beyond difficulty, and it's not tryharding if what you get is both good and common enough. I feel that if you take the time to set up a proper fishing spot, you'll be able to get plenty of good potions without significant hassle, at least until you beat Plantera, but honestly at that point you've got bigger fish to fry than farming potions through fishing. Putting an endgame material in there at a super low rate early wouldn't fix the problem of it being worth it, because most people would still never want to try. It would be like trying to fix a broken pot with a band-aid.

Won't tell for the whole playerbase but I skip bs fishing quests (like ones sending me to honey biome. There is never right time to do fishing in honey biome) even if rewards are one-of-a-kind this-quest-specific big-chungus.
And the game have enough gated content so one more piece will be barely noticeable for general playerbase.

This wouldn't be gated content, though, because those items wouldn't be Dungeon exclusive, they would simply have a higher drop chance from Dungeon quests. It rewards you for a more dangerous fishing trip by eliminating some of the RNG and tedium.

 

[Big Sammich]

One small problem with the proposed fishing summon weapon is that the Dungeon is one of the least dangerous biomes in early hardmode (since all the hardmode Dungeon enemies are post-Plantera). If the weapon is balanced to be around the same level of usefulness as the Toxikarp/Crystal Serpent (which it should), then it would be an above-average Hardmode weapon obtained from a pre-hardmode biome, which is odd to me.

You're right, actually. I hadn't fully thought of that. If the Dungeon got tougher in early Hardmode, it would be more balanced, but as it is, it's essentially a free Summoner weapon. Ultimately, as long as it doesn't really outperform some post-boss Hardmode summons like Optic Staff and Blade Staff, it would probably still be fine, but I guess that's what we said about the Sanguine Staff, and that thing had to be nerfed. Summoner has a small enough variety of options as it is that making one that's just better than all the others would be a mistake. Maybe the Cartilage Staff could do less damage, and mostly gain armor penetration on repeat summons, so once you pass the armor threshold of bosses it has diminishing returns.

 

[Baconfry]

Currently players don't have a reason to revisit the dungeon until after Plantera, and unless there's a significant addition of new content and enemies in early hardmode, I think it should stay that way.

In which case, it makes sense to move Stockade Crates to post-Plantera (with an appropriate post-Plantera Dungeon themed loot pool), and make the Cartilage Staff a pre-Hardmode weapon, since the summoner gear from the pre-hardmode Dungeon is quite barren.

 

[Big Sammich]

Currently players don't have a reason to revisit the dungeon until after Plantera, and unless there's a significant addition of new content and enemies in early hardmode, I think it should stay that way.

In which case, it makes sense to move Stockade Crates to post-Plantera (with an appropriate post-Plantera Dungeon themed loot pool), and make the Cartilage Staff a pre-Hardmode weapon, since the summoner gear from the pre-hardmode Dungeon is quite barren.

You might be right too about that. I would like to see some new enemies and content in the Dungeon pre-Plantera, but I focused on fishing because it's the only part of the Dungeon that is very barren throughout the entire playthrough and never gets better, only worse.

 

[Big Sammich]

I've returned to this thread to add some sprites for the quest fish and the Cartilage Staff. I am not an artist, so I made these by editing existing sprites. Specifically, the Pirate Staff and the Chaos Fish, as well as the Lava Eel sprite from Stardew Valley. I wish I could have made the Cartilage Staff sprite better; it doesn't look much like what I imagined in my head. Oh, well, these are mostly just mock-ups for what they could look like anyway. I will come back again soon to make sprites for the other fish and the potions.

 

[Baconfry]

I've returned to this thread to add some sprites for the quest fish and the Cartilage Staff. I am not an artist, so I made these by editing existing sprites. Specifically, the Pirate Staff and the Chaos Fish, as well as the Lava Eel sprite from Stardew Valley. I wish I could have made the Cartilage Staff sprite better; it doesn't look much like what I imagined in my head. Oh, well, these are mostly just mock-ups for what they could look like anyway. I will come back again soon to make sprites for the other fish and the potions.

I think they turned out surprisingly good! For the Cartilage Staff, I'd pursue more of a fishbone theme and add more "ribs" while sculpting the head to be a bit more fish-like. You seem pretty solid on the fundamentals; unlike a lot of beginner spriters you aren't afraid to give the sprite some nice contrasting colors and that's good.

 

[Big Sammich]

I think they turned out surprisingly good! For the Cartilage Staff, I'd pursue more of a fishbone theme and add more "ribs" while sculpting the head to be a bit more fish-like. You seem pretty solid on the fundamentals; unlike a lot of beginner spriters you aren't afraid to give the sprite some nice contrasting colors and that's good.

Yeah, I wanted to draw a shark head, and I was going for a fishbone theme, but I didn't know how to make ribs look like ribs. I did try; the bigger outcropping part is supposed to be ribs, but I couldn't make it curve around well. For everything else, I really just swapped the color palettes and changed one or two pixels. I did change the Chaos Fish sprite a bit more, by mirroring the half of it with the smaller fins. I wanted to make a ghost fish, but I lack the spriting ability to make it look how it does in my head. Maybe in the future I'll just sketch the items and take photos? Would that be good?

 

[Big Sammich]

One final update/edit to the post. I've added sprites for the Dungeon fish and the potions they'd make. Again, I edited existing sprites to make these. I edited the Ebonkoi to make the fish, and the potions were edited from existing potions.

 

[ED209]

the existing shark gets longer

I'd do some sort of moray eel, as it's closer in shape the the stardust dragon.

than one that provides a dodge chance.

I'd replace the unflinching potion (a bit OP in my opinion) with this, as the black belt comes from the dungeon.

- inconvenient transportation to fishing spot

You can make a dungeon anywhere since the shimmer was introduced.

I hadn't considered the Dark Casters. Ideally the player would need a good way to work around them

I always have sharknados summoned when I'm fishing, as they block projectiles on contact.

it's essentially a free Summoner weapon

You could reduce the catch rate, I don't consider anything with a big enough grind as free.

it makes sense to move Stockade Crates to post-Plantera

But crates change at hardmode, I doubt the devs would want to recode one specific crate. They're such a headache to fish anyway, I think the grind is payment enough.

For the Cartilage Staff, I'd pursue more of a fishbone theme and add more "ribs" while sculpting the head to be a bit more fish-like

Brilliant.


On the whole I love this idea, and the suggestion was really well put together. I love the fact that you sprited things just for a thread.

Also, the Bonefish quest item could be dungeon only.

 

[Big Sammich]

I'd do some sort of moray eel, as it's closer in shape the the stardust dragon.

I'd replace the unflinching potion (a bit OP in my opinion) with this, as the black belt comes from the dungeon.

I always have sharknados summoned when I'm fishing, as they block projectiles on contact.

You could reduce the catch rate, I don't consider anything with a big enough grind as free.

Also, the Bonefish quest item could be dungeon only.

Hmmm... an eel is a fine idea, but I think a shark skeleton would be more visually striking than an eel. The eel is also good, though.

The unflinching potion is definitely weaker than the dodge chance. Knockback immunity can be gained through several methods - shield accessories, hooking to a block, etc - but dodge chances are few and far between. Besides, the Cobalt Shield is also gotten in the Dungeon, but in pre-Hardmode, while the Black Belt is a late Hardmode item.

Sharknados work for lategame, but we would still need something for early/midgame Dungeon fishing. Besides, the projectiles from the Diabolist and Ragged Caster can't be blocked, so a summon that chases them down is preferred.

Yes, the catch rate would be very low, equivalent to the Crystal Serpent and other fishing weapons. Although it could also be lower, if we feel that Dungeon fishing in early Hardmode would be too easy.

And I did consider the Bonefish for the Dungeon, but I felt that the Fishotron was a better pick, since Skeletons appear in the regular Caverns layer. Although it could easily just have both.

Also, thank you for supporting my idea! I worked hard on it.

 

[Lord 🦆]

This is one of the best ideas I've found on the forums. Take my love

 

[Big Sammich]

This is one of the best ideas I've found on the forums. Take my love

Much appreciated, my man! Here's hoping Red sees it and likes it too.

 

[ED209]

Hmmm... an eel is a fine idea, but I think a shark skeleton would be more visually striking than an eel. The eel is also good, though.

I actually prefer the fishbone idea that someone else suggested to my own idea.

The unflinching potion is definitely weaker than the dodge chance. Knockback immunity can be gained through several methods - shield accessories, hooking to a block, etc - but dodge chances are few and far between. Besides, the Cobalt Shield is also gotten in the Dungeon, but in pre-Hardmode, while the Black Belt is a late Hardmode item.

True. Maybe change the knockback potion to 4 minutes then.

Although it could easily just have both

That's what I meant.

but we would still need something for early/midgame Dungeon fishing

The best thing to do is cover all of the surfaces in the spawn region with lava, then nothing can hurt you.

 

[Big Sammich]

One final update! I've added a sprite for the Cartilage Staff minion. It's a skeleton shark, held together by ectoplasm. I made it by editing the Bone Serpent Kite sprite.

 

[ED209]

One final update! I've added a sprite for the Cartilage Staff minion. It's a skeleton shark, held together by ectoplasm. I made it by editing the Bone Serpent Kite sprite.

Can we see it?