Game Mechanics On Dungeon Fishing

[J Bame]

To start with, fishing in the Dungeon should have a 3% chance to reel in a Golden Key. While Golden Keys are not really all that uncommon, you can never have too many, and this would provide another way to get them if you somehow find yourself in need of one.

very unnecessary, there is a lot of grinding and fighting in the dungeon so you will always have plenty of keys

they are also useless after you have all the items you want

Dungeon Crates deserve an overhaul. As they are now, they're essentially just Iron/Mythril crates with one additional item. Obsidian and Hellstone crates got their own special loot tables, and comparatively the Dungeon crates just feel a bit lackluster. I think Dungeon Crates should be changed in the following ways:

support all the suggestions here, Dungeon Crates have no purpose and better side loot helps a ton

i think Mimic Loot is unintuitive and slightly out of place, but giving them some actually useful ontier loot would be nice

Flat Stonefish: a pink fish of significant ugliness. Combine with Bottled Water, a Blinkroot, and a Daybloom to make an Unflinching Potion, which provides knockback immunity for 8 minutes.

the knockback immunity is 90% of the reason people use cobalt/obsidian/ankh shield

you dont want to have potions that can outright replace accessories like this

Stout Stonefish: a blue fish of noteworthy ugliness. Combine with Bottled Water, a Blinkroot, and a Deathweed to make a Fury Potion, which increases melee speed by 10% for 4 minutes. (This is probably the most obvious potion idea in the world, but I think it has real merit.)

this one is fine, bit weak, but fine

Thin Stonefish: a green fish of remarkable ugliness. Combine with Bottled Water, a Blinkroot, and a Shiverthorn to make a Piercing Poion, which provides 10 armor penetration for 6 minutes.

too strong before hardmode, Shark Tooth Necklace has 5 and for the weapons that work well with it works out to be about 10-20% more damage, and it wouldnt stack with shark tooth necklace because enemies only have so much defense. For hardmode 10 armor penetration is fine

do bear in mind that with a potion like this every boss in the game will have effectively 10 less defense, and that giving 10 armor penetration to crystal bullets can cause problems

The player would also be able to fish up Biome Lock Boxes.

suprised we dont have anything like this already

 

[HHH453🪓]

Pretty good for a mod ngl, especially those mods like thorium that center on expanding the base game rather than adding lots of new stuff

 

[Maddie.]

potion of piercing and sanguin staff would be an op combo

 

[Big Sammich]

very unnecessary, there is a lot of grinding and fighting in the dungeon so you will always have plenty of keys

they are also useless after you have all the items you want

Yeah, I guess you're right. I don't remember exactly what my thinking was on this idea. I guess I wanted to make it easier to open the Golden Lock Boxes? But nowadays I'd actually argue against it, to avoid centralizing too much Dungeon content in one place. I think I'll remove it from the original post. Anyone reading this in the future, that's what happened.

support all the suggestions here, Dungeon Crates have no purpose and better side loot helps a ton

i think Mimic Loot is unintuitive and slightly out of place, but giving them some actually useful ontier loot would be nice

Honestly, I went with Mimic loot because I couldn't think of anything else that fit well for early Hardmode, and didn't want to make a bunch of new items. Mimic loot doesn't entirely not make sense, in my mind, because it's still valuable stuff from a chest, which is kind of what all the loot in the Dungeon is about. But you are right that something else would fit better.

the knockback immunity is 90% of the reason people use cobalt/obsidian/ankh shield

you dont want to have potions that can outright replace accessories like this

I'm not sure if I agree, to be honest. I find that there's a lot more of value to the shields than knockback resistance. Especially on high difficulties and late parts of the game, where individual hits do a lot more damage and being comboed is less of a concern than just being killed outright. And all of the shields except for the Cobalt Shield offer other bonuses, which may or may not be important to a player, but that's not for me to decide. But I will concede that it is a tad strong. Maybe a much shorter duration? 3 minutes?

this one is fine, bit weak, but fine

Really? I wanted to avoid it being too strong. It's an equal boost to the Wrath and Fury potions.

too strong before hardmode, Shark Tooth Necklace has 5 and for the weapons that work well with it works out to be about 10-20% more damage, and it wouldnt stack with shark tooth necklace because enemies only have so much defense. For hardmode 10 armor penetration is fine

do bear in mind that with a potion like this every boss in the game will have effectively 10 less defense, and that giving 10 armor penetration to crystal bullets can cause problems

It's objectively weaker than the Sharpening Station, which gives 12 penetration permanently. But I see what you're saying. Maybe if it gave 7 or 8 penetration instead of 10?

 

[J Bame]

Really? I wanted to avoid it being too strong. It's an equal boost to the Wrath and Fury potions.

well yeah but Melee speed is a worse stat than Crit or Damage since it only affects Broadswords, Whips and little more

I'm not sure if I agree, to be honest. I find that there's a lot more of value to the shields than knockback resistance.

Cobalt and Obsidian shields only have 1 and 2 defense respectively

Ankh Shield's debuff immunities are niche, very few times are there relevant enemies that inflicts the debuffs it protects you against

There is a good reason why i left out frozen shield there, but that one comes around post plantera. So really, you could maybe get away with this if it was Post Plantera.

Im starting to think that you could buff up all the potions and make them all fishable in the post plant dungeon, that way you also avoid powercreeping the game too much with 3 new potions

It's objectively weaker than the Sharpening Station, which gives 12 penetration permanently. But I see what you're saying. Maybe if it gave 7 or 8 penetration instead of 10?

sharpening station IS a ton. But that one gets away with it in part because melee weapons tend to have higher base damage and thus benefit less from the 12 AP

though in reality the devs would rather have it be a little too good in preHardmode than basically meaningless in Hardmode (which was the case when it was 4)

 

[Big Sammich]

well yeah but Melee speed is a worse stat than Crit or Damage since it only affects Broadswords, Whips and little more

Fair enough. How does +15% melee speed sound, then?

Cobalt and Obsidian shields only have 1 and 2 defense respectively

Ankh Shield's debuff immunities are niche, very few times are there relevant enemies that inflicts the debuffs it protects you against

There is a good reason why i left out frozen shield there, but that one comes around post plantera. So really, you could maybe get away with this if it was Post Plantera.

Im starting to think that you could buff up all the potions and make them all fishable in the post plant dungeon, that way you also avoid powercreeping the game too much with 3 new potions

I'm still not sure. But, to be fair, I'm the type of player who always has on the Ankh Shield even if it's sub-optimal to do so, so it's a hard sell to get me to admit something is better than the Ankh Shield. And I don't like having the potion fish all be post-Plantera, because that takes away a good portion of fishing content from the pre-Hardmode Dungeon.

sharpening station IS a ton. But that one gets away with it in part because melee weapons tend to have higher base damage and thus benefit less from the 12 AP

though in reality the devs would rather have it be a little too good in preHardmode than basically meaningless in Hardmode (which was the case when it was 4)

How about this, then? Stout Stonefish (melee speed potion) can be found in the Dungeon at all times, Thin Stonefish (armor penetration potion) start appearing once you enter Hardmode, and Flat Stonefish (knockback immunity) start appearing once you beat Plantera.

 

[chewythebigblackdog]

One thing I will add is that if dungeon fishing was reworked like this, it would be incredibly easy to cheese it and fish with basically zero danger. With shimmer, you can transform crafted dungeon walls into cursed dungeon walls, which allow you to create an artificial dungeon when standing behind them in the presence of 250+ dungeon bricks.
normally this would be fine (as it is with other biomes), as enemies from that biome are still capable of spawning, but there's one problem with the dungeon:

enemies need to spawn on dungeon bricks and in front of dungeon walls.

this makes things incredibly abusable, as in an artificial dungeon, you literally don't get any spawns at all, making fishing a trivial affair.

 

[J Bame]

Fair enough. How does +15% melee speed sound, then?

How about this, then? Stout Stonefish (melee speed potion) can be found in the Dungeon at all times, Thin Stonefish (armor penetration potion) start appearing once you enter Hardmode, and Flat Stonefish (knockback immunity) start appearing once you beat Plantera.

Yeah sure

One thing I will add is that if dungeon fishing was reworked like this, it would be incredibly easy to cheese it and fish with basically zero danger. With shimmer, you can transform crafted dungeon walls into cursed dungeon walls, which allow you to create an artificial dungeon when standing behind them in the presence of 250+ dungeon bricks.
normally this would be fine (as it is with other biomes), as enemies from that biome are still capable of spawning, but there's one problem with the dungeon:

enemies need to spawn on dungeon bricks and in front of dungeon walls.

this makes things incredibly abusable, as in an artificial dungeon, you literally don't get any spawns at all, making fishing a trivial affair.

You are overthinking this

Fishing in any biome is easy because you just block yourself in and eventually all NPC spawn slots are filled with enemies that cant reach you

It doesnt need to be hard just because its the dungeon, especially because the proposed loot is, at best, only a little better than whats in other biomes

 

[Big Sammich]

One thing I will add is that if dungeon fishing was reworked like this, it would be incredibly easy to cheese it and fish with basically zero danger. With shimmer, you can transform crafted dungeon walls into cursed dungeon walls, which allow you to create an artificial dungeon when standing behind them in the presence of 250+ dungeon bricks.
normally this would be fine (as it is with other biomes), as enemies from that biome are still capable of spawning, but there's one problem with the dungeon:

enemies need to spawn on dungeon bricks and in front of dungeon walls.

this makes things incredibly abusable, as in an artificial dungeon, you literally don't get any spawns at all, making fishing a trivial affair.

This is a fair point, but as J Bame said, you can wall yourself in and keep yourself mostly/entirely safe in almost all biomes. Ignoring that, though, I think most people still wouldn't want to do this, because it takes far less setup to just use the existing water pits in the Dungeon. Plus, if you do a bit more setup in the Dungeon itself, you can farm enemies while you fish.

However, if you were farming Biome Lock Boxes, this would definitely be the best way to do it, and that's very exploitable. Not sure how to deal with that, but it would need to be dealt with. Perhaps Biome Lock Boxes can only appear if Dungeon enemies are nearby? Is such a thing feasibly codable?

 

[Coleyohley]

This is a fair point, but as J Bame said, you can wall yourself in and keep yourself mostly/entirely safe in almost all biomes. Ignoring that, though, I think most people still wouldn't want to do this, because it takes far less setup to just use the existing water pits in the Dungeon. Plus, if you do a bit more setup in the Dungeon itself, you can farm enemies while you fish.

Not sure I agree with that point, as many enemies in the post-plantera dungeon are ranged enemies that can hit the player through walls. Making an artificial setup would be much easier and safer than dealing with dungeon casters.

 

[Big Sammich]

Not sure I agree with that point, as many enemies in the post-plantera dungeon are ranged enemies that can hit the player through walls. Making an artificial setup would be much easier and safer than dealing with dungeon casters.

Yes, but as you clear those enemies out, the spawns will slowly fill up with enemies that can't hurt you. However, I ultimately do think that it's an exploit that would need to be solved.

 

[chewythebigblackdog]

You are overthinking this

Fishing in any biome is easy because you just block yourself in and eventually all NPC spawn slots are filled with enemies that cant reach you

It doesnt need to be hard just because its the dungeon, especially because the proposed loot is, at best, only a little better than whats in other biomes

fair enough, though it does create a massive gap between inexperienced and experienced players. Those that know how to manipulate spawns to their advantage (e.g. artificial biome, filling up the cap) will have a significantly easier time fishing in the dungeon than players that just try to keep the screen free of enemies as they fish (as a casual player would)

 

[Heliodoros]

Why fishotron should be in dungeon? Ocean is way better place for him.
But anyway, idea is good, but feels little modded. I'm sure devs won't do it.

 

[Big Sammich]

Why fishotron should be in dungeon? Ocean is way better place for him.

Because the Fishotron is a fish version of Skeletron. I think you're thinking of the Fishron, which is a different quest fish... and which also is not found in the Ocean.

 

[Timey-Whimy]

The cartilage staff feels to similar to the desert tiger