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So. Stinking. Close.

Max9874

Terrarian
So today if you've seen my post about the lunar events you'll know about this but I decided to attempt them. I got through the entire event without a single death but I absolutely failed at the moon lord. I wasn't too upset, as I had some new shiny fancy gear from the event. I made a solar eruption and a stardust dragon staff. I decided I wanted to reattempt the pumpkin moon to try and finally get to wave 15. I did really well and my solar eruption combined with my stardust dragon worked like a dream. My health did go a bit dangerously low at some points, especially when fighting the bosses. But I was doing so well. I had menacing on all of my accessories except one because I ran out of money :p. I was on wave 13 and then 14 and I thought maybe this would be the time I would finally do it. I was on wave 14 and there were 2 pumpkings attacking me and I knew all I would have to do would be kill them both and I would be done. I killed one and my event progress was up to 73%. I started attacking the other one... but then the morning came.

AIUHEYUEWFGHREUIOGEURNCTUERTECREYULFDYUFERFGYU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Arrrgh, I can't believe I was so close. All I had to do was kill that one pumpking and I would've finally reached wave 15. But no, I failed. It's just so frustrating but it's given me confidence and I know I can do it. I'm thinking of maybe farming wof to try and get an avenger emblem and make it a destroyer emblem, then stacking it with another warrior emblem. I really think I can do it but it's just so frustrating as I was so stinking close.

Oh, and guess what? No pumpking trophy, no mourning wood trophy, and no bat scepter. On wave 14!!!!!!!!!!! I swear those RNG gods hate me.
 

thecoolkni

Terrarian
An arena could make that much of a difference.

EDIT: Add traps and lava to your arena as well. It will kill the weaker enemies so you can focus on the stronger ones.
 

Max9874

Terrarian
An arena could make that much of a difference.

EDIT: Add traps and lava to your arena as well. It will kill the weaker enemies so you can focus on the stronger ones.
I do have an arena. It has spiky ball, spear, dart and flame traps along with a bed of lava. Otherwise I would be nowhere near wave 14. On my first try, which was without an arena, I reached wave 7.
 

thecoolkni

Terrarian
I do have an arena. It has spiky ball, spear, dart and flame traps along with a bed of lava. Otherwise I would be nowhere near wave 14. On my first try, which was without an arena, I reached wave 7.
Try again to kill the Moon Lord. The Meowmere is beautiful for melee, the Last Prism wreaks everything with mage equipment, and the Space Dolphin Machine Gun(S.D.M.G) with Ichor Bullets would tear through the Pumpking.
 
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Max9874

Terrarian
Try to kill the Moon Lord. The Meowmere is beautiful for melee, the Last Prism wreaks everything with mage equipment, and the Space Dolphin Machine Gun(S.D.M.G) with Ichor Bullets would tear through the Pumpking.
I did, and failed hilariously. Literally, I died in approximately 30 seconds.
 
Menacing is a joke. Reforge everything to Lucky. Critical hits are far more valuable than a slight increase in power.
 

CrazyBlue

Terrarian
Menacing is a joke. Reforge everything to Lucky. Critical hits are far more valuable than a slight increase in power.
Base stats without modifier bonuses: 111 damage and 54% critical strike chance, average damage per hit = (111 * 0.46) + (222 * 0.54)
= ~171 damage

24% damage bonus from 6 menacing trinkets: ~138 damage and 54% critical strike chance, average damage per hit = (138 * 0.46) + (276 * 0.54) = ~212 damage

24% critical strike bonus from 6 lucky trinkets: 111 damage and 78% critical strike chance, average damage per hit = (111 * 0.22) + (222 * 0.78) = ~198 damage

Why the difference? Because critical strike chance suffers from diminishing returns. The bonus damage effects your non-critical strikes and your critical strikes.

Edit: Unless you have some sort of effect that happens when a critical strike occurs I don't know how you get more DPS with Lucky than Menacing.
 
Base stats without modifier bonuses: 111 damage and 54% critical strike chance, average damage per hit = (111 * 0.46) + (222 * 0.54)
= ~171 damage

24% damage bonus from 6 menacing trinkets: ~138 damage and 54% critical strike chance, average damage per hit = (138 * 0.46) + (276 * 0.54) = ~212 damage

24% critical strike bonus from 6 lucky trinkets: 111 damage and 78% critical strike chance, average damage per hit = (111 * 0.22) + (222 * 0.78) = ~198 damage

Why the difference? Because critical strike chance suffers from diminishing returns. The bonus damage effects your non-critical strikes and your critical strikes.

Edit: Unless you have some sort of effect that happens when a critical strike occurs I don't know how you get more DPS with Lucky than Menacing.
What weapon are you talking about.
 

Granger

Terrarian
Base stats without modifier bonuses: 111 damage and 54% critical strike chance, average damage per hit = (111 * 0.46) + (222 * 0.54)
= ~171 damage

24% damage bonus from 6 menacing trinkets: ~138 damage and 54% critical strike chance, average damage per hit = (138 * 0.46) + (276 * 0.54) = ~212 damage

24% critical strike bonus from 6 lucky trinkets: 111 damage and 78% critical strike chance, average damage per hit = (111 * 0.22) + (222 * 0.78) = ~198 damage

Why the difference? Because critical strike chance suffers from diminishing returns. The bonus damage effects your non-critical strikes and your critical strikes.

Edit: Unless you have some sort of effect that happens when a critical strike occurs I don't know how you get more DPS with Lucky than Menacing.
You forgot to add that these bonuses are multiplicative in regards with each other. 12% crit 12% dmg >24% dmg > 24% crit.
 

Gotcha!

Pumpking
Menacing is a joke. Reforge everything to Lucky. Critical hits are far more valuable than a slight increase in power.
A higher base damage means higher armour penetration. That does count for something.
I don't have the numbers, but Menacing is certainly not a joke.
 

CrazyBlue

Terrarian
What weapon are you talking about.
That was with an Unreal Phantasm in Shroomite armor with pretty much all the damage accessories for ranged. I used the Celestial Shell instead of the Golem Eye though. It's really not relevant what I start with for a base though, the numbers will always be higher for % damage bonus because having any critical strike before adding to it will reduce the amount gained relative to damage. Play around with the numbers yourself if you wish or get a target dummy and test. One thing I didn't mention is that summons don't crit, yet they get the % damage bonus(at least that's what the wiki says- I have not tested it and I don't particularly care about summon damage besides convenience), so even if critical strike chance and % damage did map out 1 to 1 there would still be another benefit to using %damage over crit. Of course, if you did need the knock-back then there is some utility in critical strikes that can't be replicated via damage, so there's that.

You forgot to add that these bonuses are multiplicative in regards with each other. 12% crit 12% dmg >24% dmg > 24% crit.
Here's my math;

12% critical strike bonus and 12% damage bonus: ~125 damage and 66% critical strike chance, average damage per hit = (125 * 0.34) + (250 * 0.66) = ~208 damage

Which is closer but still less expected average damage per hit. The problem for proponents of critical strike is that weapons already have a base chance to land a critical hit and that throws off the numbers. If you had absolutely no other critical strike modifiers other than the trinket modification then they would give the same damage, but as soon as a weapon has a critical strike chance as a base you get more out of % damage.
 

Flairon

Skeletron Prime
For me, the Phantasm with holy arrows is really powerful, preferably with vortex armour.
I'm able to kill 100 pumpkings in one moon using those.
 

Granger

Terrarian
Which is closer but still less expected average damage per hit. The problem for proponents of critical strike is that weapons already have a base chance to land a critical hit and that throws off the numbers. If you had absolutely no other critical strike modifiers other than the trinket modification then they would give the same damage, but as soon as a weapon has a critical strike chance as a base you get more out of % damage.
Well, you'll have to take all your +% into account, its the best when your %damage equals your %crit. I think @W1K did the math on that once but i cba to dig trough his posts to find it.
 

W1K

Witch
When it comes to choosing between damage and critical, the important thing to keep in mind is the dps boost from both is multiplicative rather than simply additive. The factors in which dps is maximized depends on the target's defense.
Not sure whether this includes anything that hasn't been mentioned already, but given I was asked to, this is my stance on the matter and here's some old math.
 

CrazyBlue

Terrarian
I'm going to take a look at the hypothetical numbers and try to figure out what's going on with it, but bear in mind that unless there's actually something wrong with the math that I did earlier it is incorrect that 12% crit and 12% damage yields more average damage per hit than 24% damage.

Here's the relevant portion of the old post for those interested:
Base Megashark's dps is 325.

On 28 defense.
100% damage: 637 dps.
100% crit: 623 dps.
30% damage and 70% crit: 696 dps.
70% damage and 30% crit: 701 dps.
50% damage and 50% crit: 711 dps.

On 14 defense.
100% damage: 644 dps.
100% crit: 637 dps.
30% damage and 70% crit: 707 dps.
70% damage and 30% crit: 710 dps.
50% damage and 50% crit: 722 dps.​

There's no work shown for these calculations at all. How did you arrive at these numbers?

Edit for phrasing and thoroughness, please bear with me.
 
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W1K

Witch
I'm going to take a look at the hypothetical numbers and try to figure out what's going on with it, but bear in mind that unless there's actually something wrong with the math that I did earlier it is incorrect that 12% crit and 12% damage yields more average damage per hit than 24% damage.

Here's the relevant portion of the old post for those interested:
Base Megashark's dps is 325.

On 28 defense.
100% damage: 637 dps.
100% crit: 623 dps.
30% damage and 70% crit: 696 dps.
70% damage and 30% crit: 701 dps.
50% damage and 50% crit: 711 dps.

On 14 defense.
100% damage: 644 dps.
100% crit: 637 dps.
30% damage and 70% crit: 707 dps.
70% damage and 30% crit: 710 dps.
50% damage and 50% crit: 722 dps.​

There's no work shown for these calculations at all. How did you arrive at these numbers?

Edit for phrasing and thoroughness, please bear with me.
The percentages are suppositions, the results are simple weapon DPS calculations.
The generic formula for a weapon's DPS calculation would be
(60/useTime)*((damage+bulletDamage)*damageBonus-(defense/2))*(critChance+critBonus)

Granted, other than the fact Chlorophyte Bullets have been nerfed and Megashark has been buffed, for whatever reason the numbers seem to be wrong and I don't exactly get why. I'll just recalculate them showing the full formula with the right numbers.


Megashark using Chlorophyte Bullets

On 28 defense.
100% damage and 0% crit: (60 / 7) * ((25 + 10) * 2.00 - (28 / 2))* 1.00 = 480
0% damage and 100% crit: (60 / 7) * ((25 + 10) * 1.00 - (28 / 2))* 2.00 = 360
30% damage and 70% crit: (60 / 7) * ((25 + 10) * 1.30 - (28 / 2))* 1.70 = 459
70% damage and 30% crit: (60 / 7) * ((25 + 10) * 1.70 - (28 / 2))* 1.30 = 507
50% damage and 50% crit: (60 / 7) * ((25 + 10) * 1.50 - (28 / 2))* 1.50 = 495

On 14 defense.
100% damage and 0% crit: (60 / 7) * ((25 + 10) * 2.00 - (14 / 2))* 1.00 = 540
0% damage and 100% crit: (60 / 7) * ((25 + 10) * 1.00 - (14 / 2))* 2.00 = 480
30% damage and 70% crit: (60 / 7) * ((25 + 10) * 1.30 - (14 / 2))* 1.70 = 561
70% damage and 30% crit: (60 / 7) * ((25 + 10) * 1.70 - (14 / 2))* 1.30 = 585
50% damage and 50% crit: (60 / 7) * ((25 + 10) * 1.50 - (14 / 2))* 1.50 = 585


Essentially the point, having a maxed damage grants better results than a maxed crit, but on a side note, properly mixing them together (depending on the target defense) can output the best results. It's kinda hard to deduce the proper amount of damage and crit bonuses needed to maximize, which is why I tend to go for 50/50. The result can also vary by weapon of course. The defense values to verify are also supposed to be higher as this was a calculation which took place back in 1.2 if not even earlier, there's enemies with much higher defense values.
 

CrazyBlue

Terrarian
Alright, thanks for posting it. I"ll go back and re-check my numbers again to see if they're matching up later today.
 
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