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PC Summoner Discussion - What could be done to make it more viable?

did i do a good :)

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Skeletron Prime
I suppose, though actually making it deep enough into the jungle to find a suitable lake in the first place is what I was concerned about. It's very difficult to do when everything spams in your face and two shots you, I guess I just need to wait for living inside the jungle instead of doing that from the beginning. :D

Yes, but why wouldn't you use Crimson armor in prehardmode? I actually have been going around telling people about the fact that you basically get both evils in hardmode, but you really don't benefit from the Cuffs enough in prehardmode to spurn the sheer ridiculousness of the Brain of Confusion and Crimson Armor.
Points taken yeah getting down there is the hard part though I find that in Terraria as long as you are aware of your surroundings i.e. good enough at spotting traps/maneaters it is easier to survive in the Jungle if you keep moving due to how enemy spawn mechanics work in general. Still a huge risk but it is possible to set up a fairly safe fishing hole as long as world gen didn't screw with you.

Yeah Crimson Armor is a bit of a problem given its potency being so good relative to other armors, sadly I have to admit you are right that Crimson is inherently better in nearly every single way apparently because Red says so. The only reasons behind why I honestly prefer corruption are because of aesthetic reasons (Ebonstone brick is one of my favorite brick types, and ebonwood actually fits the biome unlike the seemingly strange shadewood that appears to have little connection to crimson whatsoever. The only practical gain for me is the Scourge of the Corrupter which comes at the cost of life stealing vampire knives but those seem to be a crutch more than anything.

The panic Necklace is pretty crap though literally no potential tinkerwise...


Eye of Cthulhu
i really only have 2 main issues with the summoner class, which is pre hardmode and whips.

the pre-hardmode is still kind of bad because you have one armor set locked behind queen bee. i guess you could argue that ranger also has only one pre hardmode armor set but the thing is that if you're playing a ranger you can get by with a crimson armor set until you beat skeletron. with summoner you need summoner potions and to somehow get a bewitching table to actually get minions before queen bee. no other class needs to do extra stuff like that to be viable early game. the most simple solution is to add a pre boss summoner set. maybe you could get it by fishing in the ocean. something like the sunken set. pants would give you 1 extra minion, the rest of the armor pieces would increase minion damage. I don't know, but at least it's something.

the second problem is whips, which basically say :red: you to your summon's ai. with whips constantly changing aggro if you're fighting a group of enemies, they're pretty bad for your summons. plus they're essentially melee weapon doing summon damage. summoners don't have a lot of defense so its not even worth it to whip enemies. check out this thread if you want to read more about it, but my solution is to add a different secondary weapons to summoners: canes. they would change the aggro to the enemy you click, and different canes would make your minions inflict different debuffs (bleeding, fire, frostburn, poison, ichor) that would last for 20 seconds, with a 10 second cooldown for the debuffs.


Summons should never have any iFrame issues. You should always benefit for having more summons, as it should never be the case where one overshadows another's value.
The behavior must improve. There are several things that can go wrong: summons going out of aggro range automatically and end up losing target (not even a despawn or anything), the inability to assign target priority aside from focus (which narrows out crowd control for summons drastically), small landscape mishaps or simply being too slow renders them completely useless against fights (refer to gameraider's fight against eye of cthulu as summoner. it's ridiculous.)
the requirement of the whip makes summoners super weak all around. on paper it is ideal, but it kills crowd control by a landslide. summons don't benefit nearly as much. whips that are supposed to alleviate that are not strong enough for such a utility.
summons have literally nothing for enemies in blocks; this makes worm enemies incredibly tiresome. they don't know who to attack, stacking the behavior issues above, and the only way around it is with whips, whicn don't have good dps.
sentries should last longer and be more manageable. right now, their purpose is rather weak, if not talking about the etherian event.
in addition to having summoner quantity at one's disposal, being able to have a variety of different summons from different staffs would make summoner class so much more colorful. a lot of times you'll see a lot of the same one summon, rather than a variety of different creatures that benefit from each other... a classic idea would be to combine hornet staff and imp staff for debuff stacking (though that is too weak), or having a high knockback minion work with a sniper summon.
whips should be affected by the imbuing station. it's just asking for it.
Similar to mage class, I don't think that summoner class should be able to have a weapon purely by luck at the very start. In this case, it's the finch staff. There's no way you're using that weapon for real; it doesn't deal enough damage nor does it have a half decent ai. otherwise they will have to buff it and make it less likely to overshoot (same applies to raven). They should also make finch staffs renewable. I would suggest a crafting method related to catching birds and using a living loom. you can make a few more staff ideas here as well, for starter variety.
ancient summoner armor in the same fashion as ancient colbalt, ancient necro, or ancient shadow armor (there should be ancient crimson armor or something for crimson worlds) would be really good for summoner; they don't have some sort of armor like that.
the firecracker sounds like a really good shadow chest item. I don't know what they thought about it dropping from the wall of flesh, but that makes the whip stand out too much; the rest of the drops aside from the emblems and expert/master drops are steampunk themed. additionally, there is no reasonable method to deal with the wall, due to the swarms of hungry and the need to distance due to wall speed and eye lasers. this and plantera really shows the crappy nature of the ai. summoner needs to be able to deal with these situations.
Blood moon enemies should be twice as weak. more often than not, they are too fleshy for their own good to the point where it's absolutely not worth fighting it. Even in expert mode, the numbers are just outrageous.
pirate staff is useless. an idea to make it better is to have different kinds of pirates coming out of it; every 4th summon a captain comes out instead, every 3rd of 4 summons makes a deadeye, etc.
More summons right before plantera. a chlorophyte staff summoning weapon makes the ore useful for summoners, and could be designed to get around the swarm plantera makes, whicn no other summon can really deal with without being too strong for the stage.
A whip in the frost moon?

I missed out a bunch of ideas and reasons, but I cannot seem to remember them or write it down in a clear shape and reason. but, as of right now, there are many empty places in the game, but most of these are overshadowed by other things that are not really all that good either (frozen and desert chest kind of ruining potential reason to see the biomes in hardmode, a variety of whips and summons available at a said moment that would be too weird to just add another weapon for progression's sake (as it would overshadow others or be overlapped)). but those specific items are not important. it is the weighting throughout the game that is a problem, and the lack of choices to choose better things. additionally, the class itself has become linearized, and so it succumbs to a variety of situations that other classes can deal with easily. if you fight against queen slime, wall of flesh or plantera with the way it is right now, the problems couldn't be any clearer. you even fight the wall of flesh like a mage using crimson rods, since the aggro range of summons just won't cut it.
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