• For issues you find with the Switch and Console releases, please follow this link and give as much detail as possible. This is the speediest way to get info to Pipeworks and get a hotfix in the works.
  • 1.4 will bring many changes to the PC version. We strongly advise making plans to back up your worlds and players prior to updating your game. More details here.
  • Begin your search for Journey's End information here and here. Please report bugs and issues for Journey's End here.
  • For issues you find with the Mobile 1.3 update, please follow this link and give as much detail as possible. This is the speediest way to get info to DR Studios to look at your issue. Also, some troubleshooting hints here.

PC Summoner Discussion - What could be done to make it more viable?

did i do a good :)


  • Total voters
    18

Pizzarugi

Official Terrarian
Here's my issue with you, right. You wanna talk about plain common sense, but are unhappy with the intended progression of Early-Game Summoner Class. Instead of fixing a very easily remedied issue, that I'm certain you know exists, you'd rather ice skate up hill against the vision of the developers?
I'm just gonna point out that we don't know what the developers' intentions are. For all we know, summoner is a main class that got implemented not only late in the game's development, but also from the top-down as evidenced by the fact it has its own Celestial Pillar.

At least, that's my assumption. The endgame build has a very clear goal, but that's unfortunately post Moon Lord. There's little to no groundwork leading up to it, but plenty of opportunity to make it happen. How you do this is add more content for summoners that can be obtained by crafting rather than dealing with RNG. Pre-hardmode could use a pre Queen Bee armor plus a few craftable staves to smoothly progress from game start to that boss. Hardmode could get a few staves that can be crafted from ores/chlorophyte/shroomite or upgrading existing ones like the Hornet Staff to Moss Hornet Staff.
 
Last edited:
I'm just gonna point out that we don't know what the developers' intentions are. For all we know, summoner is a main class that got implemented not only late in the game's development, but also from the top-down as evidenced by the fact it has its own Celestial Pillar.
Summoner.png

[source]

If you play this game long enough & stop listening to the outside noise, you can almost always feel what the developers intentions are/ were (especially if it's a passion project). In addition, the Developers for this game in particular, do quite a bit of talking; if you listen to them. You have to love this game to understand it & stop coming at it from an "I know what's best" kinda mentality, because nine times outta ten, you'll be wrong. Unlike many other games, we have the luxury of having developers, who are as much fans of Terraria as we are, & only want what's best for it. I know it's hard sometimes, but you have to learn to trust them; you should trust them.

Also, if you're gonna make suggestions for the game, at least know enough about the thing you're asking, to understand if it's either healthy for it, or is addressing some major flaw that actually needs fixing; Summoner was indeed one of those flaws in 1.3.5, I can certainly agree to that, but not in 1.4.0.5. Summoner is d**n near perfect now & I don't want any short-sighted fans tampering with it. 🙅‍♂️🍹

At least, that's my assumption. The endgame build has a very clear goal, but that's unfortunately post Moon Lord. There's little to no groundwork leading up to it, but plenty of opportunity to make it happen. How you do this is add more content for summoners that can be obtained by crafting rather than dealing with RNG. Pre-hardmode could use a pre Queen Bee armor plus a few craftable staves to smoothly progress from game start to that boss. Hardmode could get a few staves that can be crafted from ores/chlorophyte/shroomite or upgrading existing ones like the Hornet Staff to Moss Hornet Staff.
This is why you should understand the game before you critique it like this. Minions aren't like Swords, Guns & Magic Staffs that you just replace, Minions grow when YOU grow as a Summoner; the fact that you don't know something as simple as this, is one of the biggest reasons I'll fight you tooth & nail when it comes to this Class! You don't just replace Minions, they're literally your friends in this game, they all have obvious strengths & weakness. You only replace a Minion when it's absolutely obvious that they are outclassed by a newer one. This is one of the biggest flaws to microwaved information & raw stats, it lacks context.

Just to quiet the possible secret grumblings, I wanna give most of you a shining example of what I mean when I say Summoner doesn't need any more stuff. Most of the things I've seen players suggesting to be changed either, already exist in-game or will destroy the Class, it's balance & it's current uniqueness entirely.

Wouldn't it be cool if there was a Summoner Armor Set + Minions that heal the player every time the Minions attack?
That's already possible with the proper set-up, especially in a Crimson World. All you'd need to do is equip Heartreach Potions, focus on high Minion DPS & find an Ichor-based Weapon you like most to soften enemies up. Once you get access to Vampire Knives, you can simply buff the Weapon with Ichor Flasks (now imagine that healing-type Armor existing, plus this set-up. Do you really feel like this would be good for the health of the game?).

Well, how about a Summoner Armor Set or Minions that act as a shield, to protect the player's Character from damage?
So you want a newer version of the old Titanium Armor, just after the Developers got done fixing the old issue, with it being too good for it's placement in natural progression, really? Not only that, you wanna stack this ability on top of Star Veil, Cross Necklace, Frozen Shell, Brain of Confusion & Master Ninja Gear? Hard pass!

Summoner would just be better if it had more early-game upgrading paths & craftable Minion Staffs!
No, no it wouldn't. The difference in raw power in early-game is too small to keep Summer Class items from being an essential no-brainer. No matter what Class you start with, why wouldn't you craft a Summoning Staff? In fact, if you manage to get hold of a Finch Staff or Slime Staff, what Class isn't going to use the Minions? At a certain point, there needs to be a clear divide between natural progression & build intention. If you wanna be a Summoner, you have to intentionally invest in the Class. The more you do this, the larger the gap between a Summoner & a person who happens to have Minions will become. Why would anyone vote against good design like this? 🤔🍹

I don't like how Summoner Class gets left behind once the World gets flooded with ores like, Adamantite, Titanium & Cholorphite! The Class needs more craftable Minions in Hardmode!
This is shortsightedness; not only can a Summoner Craft Forbidden Armor once you get access to these ores, there's nothing to stop you from using any of the Adamantite or Titanium Weaponry. In-fact, you could even afford to invest in a lil' Hardmode Magic Weapons with this Armor Set! As far as Cholorphite is concerned, you'll likely benefit the most form this ore being accessible, so far as Weaponry is concerned... because, if you can mine Cholorphite, that also means you have access to DD2 Summoner Sentries (Tier 2), in addition to all the DD2 (Tier 2) Armor Sets, who all get Weapon bonuses from other Classes! Even if you just like the Sentries & aren't interested in the Armor Sets, you can Summon up to two Sentries with the DD2 Sentry Accessories.
  • Monk's Belt
  • Squire's Shield
  • Huntress Buckler
  • Apprentice's Scarf
I don't like the fact that there's so much grinding & RNG involved with the Summoner's upgrading path! That's not fair compared to other Classes!
There isn't really. This is just a simple case of players Meta-gaming without any real context. For example, did you know that the items from Queen Bee alone can carry Summoner Class all the way into Early-Hardmode? In fact, if you're gonna Meta-game, shouldn't you have found a Spider Cave in advance to farm before even killing The Wall of Flesh? Well, just as soon as Hardmode begins, you already have your new upgrade, not only in Armor, but Minions & a new Sentry! You don't even have to go diging at this point either. Once you have the Spider Set, you can fish, in peace until you get enough Hardmode ores to begin crafting the Forbidden Armor. This isn't a flaw in the game, this is your own stubbornness weighing you down.

Summoner Class feels weak, the Minions are dumb, don't do enough damage & the Class feels like it's made outta paper! Summoner needs an Armor buff.
You're saying that a Class, that can have up to five-six (5-6) Minions, doing all the work for them, before ever fighting your first Mechanical Boss, is weak? This sounds like some serious deflecting & you should probably pick a different Class. There's waaay too many powerful Weapons, Potions, Accessories & Passive Buffs to justify making Summoner Class any more broken. You don't know what you're doing & if you need help with Summoner Class, I have a somewhat guide here... a proper guide is coming soon, but I'm assuming you're the impatient type so, there you go. 🙄🍹

Summoner Class should be able to stand on it's own two feet, using only Summoner Weapons, Summoner tools & Summoner equipment! I don't like the fact that the Class has to rely on using other Class Weapons & tools just to beat the game, other Classes can do it just fine without it!
I mean, it's possible. I've seen players do Summoner Purist runs in Terraria before any of the newer stuff was ever added. What you're probably trying to say is "beating the game as a Summoner Purist is beyond my current skill level & I don't like that". Well yeah, which is why you should practice if you're going to do a challenge run. Terraria's natural progression balance isn't catered to or designed around challenge runs, most games aren't. A challenge run applies player instituted rules, regulations & limitations, if you're having trouble beating Terraria as a Summoner Purist, to the point you're not having fun anymore... well, stop trying to do a challenge run maybe? 🤷‍♂️🍹
 

SaintD

Terrarian
You have to love this game to understand it & stop coming at it from an "I know what's best" kinda mentality, because nine times outta ten, you'll be wrong.
....then proceeds to soapbox relentlessly about how he knows better.

No-one is bothering much with you because no-one cares, and no-one cares because they've written off summoning already. They've written off summoning already because the summons DON'T properly do the work they should be doing according to the quote you yourself provided and only cared about what you wanted to read from it. They've written off summoning already because the majority of it is behind unreasonably extreme grinding of highly specific, monotonous enemies, for the payoff of not being as good as generally anything else.

And most of all, no-one is bothering because no-one is going to put that much effort into rebutting a holier than thou hypocrit shouting that none of you 'understand' Terraria, when we know that the status quo you're defending from the unwashed 'shortsighted' fans isn't going to change anyway. Game is done. We got what we got. Some cultist in a cult of one lowkey insulting people so as not to get mod slapped isn't worth it. Heck, I'm procrastinating in bed with my dog right now.

But now no-one can have any conversation about summoners without that guy proselytising at them about how they don't understand the gospel of Terraria.
 

Pizzarugi

Official Terrarian
....then proceeds to soapbox relentlessly about how he knows better.

No-one is bothering much with you because no-one cares, and no-one cares because they've written off summoning already. They've written off summoning already because the summons DON'T properly do the work they should be doing according to the quote you yourself provided and only cared about what you wanted to read from it. They've written off summoning already because the majority of it is behind unreasonably extreme grinding of highly specific, monotonous enemies, for the payoff of not being as good as generally anything else.

And most of all, no-one is bothering because no-one is going to put that much effort into rebutting a holier than thou hypocrit shouting that none of you 'understand' Terraria, when we know that the status quo you're defending from the unwashed 'shortsighted' fans isn't going to change anyway. Game is done. We got what we got. Some cultist in a cult of one lowkey insulting people so as not to get mod slapped isn't worth it. Heck, I'm procrastinating in bed with my dog right now.

But now no-one can have any conversation about summoners without that guy proselytising at them about how they don't understand the gospel of Terraria.
Honestly, at this point summoning is best used for AFK farming some of the easier events like Pirate Invasions for money or underground Hallow/Corrupted/Crimson biomes for souls. If you roll summoner armor and gear to try and fight bosses, you're going to have a hard time unless you're very good at dodging hits. The worst part of this is that the only real weapons summoners have are essentially melee weapons which you're encouraged to use in order to empower your minions while simultaneously having armor that is paper thin. If you play in expert/master mode, bosses will rip you to shreds while you try and tag them which you must do almost constantly to keep the tag buff going.

It seems very strange that you're encouraged to keep your distance or use cheese to avoid getting hit while simultaneously making use of a weapon class that puts you directly in harm's way. It just seems like a conflict of intentions that could be remedied by buffing the armor's defense values. It doesn't have to be exactly similar to melee or include some of the late/endgame buffs melee armors get, but it needs something to encourage you to want to whip something without getting melted.

I've found that my experience with the game improves when I replace my summoner loadout completely with melee/ranger/mage instead. Melee may have arguably as bad amount of DPS as summoner, but at least the damage you receive is paltry. Range and mage get varying degrees of fragility, but they make up for it with sheer damage from safe distances. Just because the summoner gets passive damage doesn't justify the terrible defense combined with melee-range weapon classes and the majority of your summons being gated behind RNG which the other classes don't have to worry about.

A lot of expectations are being foisted upon the summoner when very little or none are given to the other classes.
 
Honestly, at this point summoning is best used for AFK farming some of the easier events like Pirate Invasions...If you play in expert/master mode, bosses will rip you to shreds while you try and tag them which you must do almost constantly to keep the tag buff going.
So let me get this right, you're playing on Expert Mode & Master Mode as a Summoner, but don't have good movement? So you willingly, set the difficulty, to spike greatly, in Terraria & are complaining about durability? You do realize that any passives buffs you get to damage increase, applies to your Weapon & your Minions right? But you also want the same defense as something like Mage or Ranger Class? I'm not sure where the disconnect is but, yeah, just don't play Summoner. Your opinion on the Class is very, very warped & very, very bias. 🙄🍹

It seems very strange that you're encouraged to keep your distance or use cheese to avoid getting hit while simultaneously making use of a weapon class that puts you directly in harm's way...It doesn't have to be exactly similar to melee or include some of the late/endgame buffs melee armors get, but it needs something to encourage you to want to whip something without getting melted.
Do you have any idea just how valuable the Whip Weapons are during certain Invasions, against Trash Mobs & the Underground Desert enemies (namely Dune Splicers)!? Of course you don't... you limited the Class to an AFK Farming machine. I'm kinda glad that your true colors are showing now, as a person this bitter shouldn't be allowed to be the voice of Summoner Class. Master Mode, *scoff*.. my ***!

I've found that my experience with the game improves when I replace my summoner loadout completely...
Well, at least you found your calling. Please keep enjoying other Classes, Terraria is indeed a Sandbox Game.

A lot of expectations are being foisted upon the summoner when very little or none are given to the other classes.
A lot of investment is being imposed upon the Summoner when very little or none are given to the other Classes. 👈 *fixed*

Nobody can convince me, that a Class, that gets to do all this hunga bunga bulls**t for free (+ Minions)... is weak. 🙄🍹

20200620205404_1.jpg
20200620210934_1.jpg
 

Pizzarugi

Official Terrarian
Sure are a lot of hostility and toxic assumptions you made about my character just because I criticize a class based on their fragility, lack of options, and sheer RNG to get off the ground. I'll just take up after SaintD and disregard you as a bad faith actor who talks down to other players and demand they "git gud" in order to properly enjoy a summoner class.
 
@Jota Bame , oh, you wanna see DPS? Say no more... 🙄🍹

20200619233054_1.jpg
20200619233102_1.jpg


@Pizzarugi

Sure are a lot of hostility and toxic assumptions you made about my character just because I criticize a class based on their fragility, lack of options, and sheer RNG to get off the ground. I'll just take up after SaintD and disregard you as a bad faith actor who talks down to other players and demand they "git gud" in order to properly enjoy a summoner class.
...who's also making a Guide. 🙄🍹
 

Tarluk

Terrarian
Mate, if a school teacher insults their students because they didn't immediately understand the concept or how the teacher is trying to teach it, then that teacher would at best be considered ineffective and at worst be considered malicious. In many cases, they'd be fired from their job.

You making a guide about the class isn't an excuse for :red:ty behavior toward others. If anything, it makes that :red:ty behavior even more inexcusable than it already was.
 

Chry

Terrarian
I just want to point out that this thread is dangerously close to getting locked due to hostility, I assume.

It is impossible to change someones opinion online, or ever really, if you're being aggressive and accusatory.

Even if you think the summoner class is one way or another way, Terraria is a sandbox game that can be played however you see fit. If you want to play pure classes, which I do and I love it, then go for it. If you think summoners are a sub-class and only useful for other class setups, you do you. If you think summoners have the potential to be a fully fleshed out pure class, like I do, then yes boo! Sing it loud and proud. Just don't sing it in someone-elses face until they sing the tune too. It's not fair, and it's a terrible way to have a constructive discussion.

Summoners are lack lustre for my style of play and I desperately want there to be additions/changes/just some extra dev love... but if I worst comes to absolute worst, and the devs refuse to add changes, then I will be forced to try out calamity, or thorium or some other totally awesome mods to fill my needs. Which is why TModloader is now officially supported!
 
I just want to point out that this thread is dangerously close to getting locked due to hostility, I assume.
It should never have gotten this bad, but people are being willfully stubborn for reasons unknown. As a reasonable person, explain to me what's wrong with this. I take the time to explain to them why their ideas are bad for the health of the game, point for point. I even offered Pizzarugi advice, in private, admitting my tone was misplace, only to be ignored, which is fine, but don't then try to pretend I didn't offer help later, when it suits the surface narrative. 🙄🍹 That's just cruddy.

It is impossible to change someones opinion online, or ever really, if you're being aggressive and accusatory.
I don't have any intention on doing that, it's the intellectual dishonesty that irks me most. I'm pretty sure about what I had to say about Pizzarugi though, I'll start posting screenshots if people are gonna try to start playing victim here. I offered help & explained the misplaced tone, but it's like they don't wanna hear it, which again, is fine, but don't then try to come outta the woodwork with things that were already addressed, to purposely recycle the discussion.

Even if you think the summoner class is one way or another way, Terraria is a sandbox game that can be played however you see fit. If you want to play pure classes, which I do and I love it, then go for it. If you think summoners are a sub-class and only useful for other class setups, you do you. If you think summoners have the potential to be a fully fleshed out pure class, like I do, then yes boo! Sing it loud and proud. Just don't sing it in someone-elses face until they sing the tune too. It's not fair, and it's a terrible way to have a constructive discussion.
I'll play nice once the Developers are done with the update & we finally have Terraria 1.4.1. Many of these players are trying their best to reintroduce problems that were already addressed from 1.3.5. Whatever we get, we're gonna be stuck with, forever. It's ok to admit that your ideas aren't healthy for the game & try to look at things from a different perspective, but a person who sets a games difficulty to Master Mode, then complains about dying too fast, while using an Advanced Class, who they know nothing about, shouldn't be taken seriously. You can't Metagame, do a challenge run & than cry about imbalance, that's absurd. I don't see how I'm wrong for calling out B.S. when I see it.

Summoners are lack lustre for my style of play and I desperately want there to be additions/changes/just some extra dev love... but if I worst comes to absolute worst, and the devs refuse to add changes, then I will be forced to try out calamity, or thorium or some other totally awesome mods to fill my needs. Which is why TModloader is now officially supported!
I've seen those Mods, I definitely don't want that for Terraria, but if that's what you all enjoy, you're free to do that, just don't break something that already works just fine.
 
Last edited:
  • Angry
Reactions: Bry

Sphongleface

Terrarian
I want to bring my ideas to the table for how we could make the summoner class more viable.....
-The only thing wrong with summoning as a pure class is that minons attack on their own whereas they should ONLY accept direct commands when the whip is "used". *WHAPISHH!*
 

Pizzarugi

Official Terrarian
It should never have gotten this bad, but people are being willfully stubborn for reasons unknown. As a reasonable person, explain to me what's wrong with this. I take the time to explain to them why their ideas are bad for the health of the game, point for point. I even offered Pizzarugi advice, in private, admitting my tone was misplace, only to be ignored, which is fine, but don't then try to pretend I didn't offer help later, when it suits the surface narrative. 🙄🍹 That's just cruddy.
I don't have any intention on doing that, it's the intellectual dishonesty that irks me most. I'm pretty sure about what I had to say about Pizzarugi though, I'll start posting screenshots if people are gonna try to start playing victim here. I offered help & explained the misplaced tone, but it's like they don't wanna hear it, which again, is fine, but don't then try to come outta the woodwork with things that were already addressed, to purposely recycle the discussion.
I didn't pretend anything, that's an assumption you made due to my lack of a response.

The advice you gave me more or less boiled down to playing a sentry focused build rather than a summoner. The focus of my discussion since the beginning has been about summoner and, while sentries technically fall under that category, my contention was the fragility of the armor class that caters to the more active and mobile damage minions and how a melee-range whip doesn't match with how you're supposed to be playing the class, and of course the RNG involved in acquiring most of these.

Sorry if I don't respond to what is essentially you ignoring the criticisms I, and a number of other people here, have laid out about summoners. "Git gud" and "play something else" is not a valid rebuttal of real problems of a class when the same is not expected of the other playstyles. Your advice, while appreciated, was not relevant to the issues I had brought up.

Even if I had taken your advice, sentries are probably even worse off in regards to diversity and options than regular minions. There's only 4 sentry staves not including the ones offered in OOA, 2 of which require killing Moon Lord.

That means at best you'll have 3 different sentries to progress the game with:
- Spider Queen
- Frost Hydra
- Ballista (I don't think I've heard of anyone using the other 3 outside of OOA, lightning and explosive both have limited reach while flame has limited angle)

Outside of OOA, there are no pre-hardmode sentries available. And you already know about my criticisms with access to pre-hardmode summons before fighting Queen Bee.

And let's not forget I have not once attacked your character or made toxic assumptions about you based on nothing. You did that to me and dismissed my experiences with the class using vague descriptions like "microwaved information". Nevermind the fact I played through the game with a summoner build before on normal difficulty and just recently completing it again on expert. However, I had to run pure melee to defeat Moon Lord on expert, because his damage is just too strong against such weak armor and the Stardust Dragon can't fly fast enough to stay on top of his weak points. I can't imagine how excruciating fighting him will be on master.
 
Last edited:

Tarluk

Terrarian
It should never have gotten this bad, but people are being willfully stubborn for reasons unknown.
Is that what you call people who disagree with you?

Mate, you should stop digging your grave while you still can here and let people agree to disagree. No matter how valid or invalid your points might be, they're not going to give them any thought because you're attacking and insulting anyone that wants to test them.
 
I didn't pretend anything, that's an assumption you made due to my lack of a response.
I posted a link to my somewhat guide several times in this thread, was any of that information useful to you, at all? Did you even read any of it? This is why I used the word pretending, because I freely gave the information repeatedly, but the same issues kept popping up. If you weren't going to bother reading it, & you wanted to be a Summoner with more defense, then the DD2 Summoners were the obvious choice. That's not dismissive, I was directly addressing your issue. 🤔🍹

The advice you gave me more or less boiled down to playing a sentry focused build rather than a summoner. The focus of my discussion since the beginning has been about summoner and, while sentries technically fall under that category, my contention was the fragility of the armor class that caters to the more active and mobile damage minions and how a melee-range whip doesn't match with how you're supposed to be playing the class, and of course the RNG involved in acquiring most of these.
I was telling you about those Classes because they directly solved your immediate problem, they promote ranged combat, they can still use Minions, in addition to having several Sentries. You'd quickly learn the Summoner Meta from using those Classes. I wasn't saying "just go play something else", I was trying to show you how to develop strong fundamentals. Did you try any of it out?

Sorry if I don't respond to what is essentially you ignoring the criticisms I, and a number of other people here, have laid out about summoners. "Git gud" and "play something else" is not a valid rebuttal of real problems of a class when the same is not expected of the other playstyles. Your advice, while appreciated, was not relevant to the issues I had brought up.
I never said "git gud", that was you being dismissive. I gave you alternative, after alternative, that you either ignored or dismissed. Whips are amazing Weapons, but I can't convince you of that if you don't have strong Summoner fundamentals. We were never going to agree on that, so I didn't bother trying to change your mind. Heck, I even displayed the power of Cool Whip to a guy who makes Tier Lists, & he came back at me comparing it to a Daedalus Stormbow tier item, just to save face. I wasn't expecting a player having frustration issues with Summoner in Master Mode to be any more cooperative.

Even if I had taken your advice, sentries are probably even worse off in regards to diversity and options than regular minions. There's only 4 sentry staves not including the ones offered in OOA, 2 of which require killing Moon Lord.
Try it maybe? I keep trying to tell players to stop theory-crafting & actually test, you'll find that a LOT of your assumptions are wrong. Please, please go test out the DD2 Summoners & see if it rectifies your issue. From what I've gathered from your frustrations, they seem to address all your needs & wants; see, I was listening. I just think you didn't like my answers, which is fine, but at least test first.

Outside of OOA, there are no pre-hardmode sentries available. And you already know about my criticisms with access to pre-hardmode summons before fighting Queen Bee.
We're never going to see eye-to-eye on that, so, i'll leave it be.

And let's not forget I have not once attacked your character or made toxic assumptions about you based on nothing. You did that to me and dismissed my experiences with the class using vague descriptions like "microwaved information". Nevermind the fact I played through the game with a summoner build before on normal difficulty and just recently completing it again on expert. However, I had to run pure melee to defeat Moon Lord on expert, because his damage is just too strong against such weak armor and the Stardust Dragon can't fly fast enough to stay on top of his weak points. I can't imagine how excruciating fighting him will be on master.
That's because you were Meta-gaming without context. I did apologize for that, but then you came back with the same complaints as if you didn't bother using any of the advice I gave you, which I felt was dangerous to the health of the game, because the same misinformation was going to keep going around. If you tested the stuff I suggested & still felt the same way, i'd have nothing to say, but I could tell you didn't because of your tone.

People were looking forward to Master Mode being extremely hard, until they discovered that cheese no longer worked. Skill is all they have to rely on now & all you'll see is anger (especially in the Steam Forums). You can't hide from Moon Lord & Flying Saucer under a stone bridge anymore & now they're crying. I'm not saying this about you, I'm saying that a person's bruised ego is willing to take out everyone, just to satisfy itself. I had to deal with people calling the Developers of this game lazy... you believe that!? Lazy!? I don't want this game ruined because the Developers gave in to misguided fans, it's happened before in too many other game that I loved, I don't want it to happen to Terraria too, so please forgive my callous attitude.
 

Unit One

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Hey folks, it’s time to take a breather. It seems like the discussion is getting a bit too heated, a bit personal, and some are confusing being condescending with making a valid polite opinion.

This thread is about sharing ideas to help summoners become more viable. If you feel that summoners (however you choose to define that) are already viable, have shared those thoughts, and others choose to disagree with you, I invite you to leave the discussion to those that still want to discuss making summoners viable, instead of diverting the topic.
 

Dragrath

Skeletron Prime
Free passive damage isn't free and passive when it actively knocks things into you. Also have you tried fishing in the jungle in earlygame?
From my master mode playthrough if looking to safely fish in the underground Jungle in Early game don't underestimate the simple solution of placing a barrier around yourself. I find that immediately cuts off nearly all enemies from being able to hurt you except man eaters which can be countered with a vilethorn or spear, and very lucky waterhugging Jungle bats which pass through the one block gap between your fishing bunker and the water to count the full lake/pond. The latter of which can be largely limited in its damage through a Jungle bat Banner which is almost always the first mob banner I get. I guess theoretically with a deep enough pool/lake you run into the risk of spiked jungle slimes spawning at the bottom and floating to the top but that in particular can easily be avoided by having your fishing lake be wide rather than deep.

"and if you know what you're doing you can't even fight one of them most of the time." I take it you don't like corruption much? I know it is statistically inferior for everyone but mages but don't diss people who prefer to have corruption after all as of 1.4 the only things actually restricted by world type are the evil biome chest, whether the Dryad sells corrupt/crimson grass walls on a blood moon, and whether the Steampunker sells Red solution and the Flesh Cloning Vat/ or Purple Solution and the Decay Chamber. Everything else can technically be acquired in one world by making an artificial alternate evil biome and importing seeds/blocks is only needed if you want it prehardmode as the alternate evil seeds can be acquired in hardmode.
 

Dragrath

Skeletron Prime
---
There we go! Now we're getting somewhere! I'm pretty sure this is an issue the Developers likely didn't account for. The easiest solution would be for these kinds of statues to be craftable in Graveyard Biomes, possibly even making them a pain in the a** to make? This is a real issue, that has nothing to do with touching Summoner & possibly breaking things. I 100% agree that this issue should be addressed & this is what you should be fighting for while we still have time! I'm almost certain that no one will disagree with you about this, especially not me!



I can understand, but item rarity is a part of Terraria's identity. If you want the rarity of the drop to be improved in the player favor, I won't contest it, even if I do disagree. I don't think any of the items they drop are essential enough to warrant an increase, but that's just my opinion & not a strong enough opinion to oppose you on suggesting it be slightly changed.
Regarding these two statues the idea of making them craftable in a graveyard could work perhaps with the recipe being a normal zombie or skeleton statue?
Or alternatively Journey mode worlds could be made to count as expert+ for world generation purposes as it already is a distinct difficulty from normal so it should be a fairly simple world gen change with no other significant impacts as far as I am aware.

As for the second point having fought against these enemies I do think the bloodmoon monsters should have a higher chance of dropping something as statistically they are clearly intended as miniboss monsters in terms of stats(high damage and defense plus knockback immunity) and behavior(fleeing if the player tries to hide for example). Currently they have the stats and difficulty of other minibosses among the list of well defined minibosses i.e. Wyvern, Ice Golem, Sand Elemental, Corrupt Mimic, Crimson Mimic, Hallowed Mimic, Goblin Summoner, Pirate Captain, Mothron and Paladin. Of these aside from the Pirate Captain and Paladin which both spawn far more frequently than others typically do they all feature much higher drop rates than regular enemies. It feels like an oversight on the part of the devs to have these enemies have such low relatively speaking drop rates compared to the above.
 

Derpling Ω

Plantera
From my master mode playthrough if looking to safely fish in the underground Jungle in Early game don't underestimate the simple solution of placing a barrier around yourself. I find that immediately cuts off nearly all enemies from being able to hurt you except man eaters which can be countered with a vilethorn or spear, and very lucky waterhugging Jungle bats which pass through the one block gap between your fishing bunker and the water to count the full lake/pond. The latter of which can be largely limited in its damage through a Jungle bat Banner which is almost always the first mob banner I get. I guess theoretically with a deep enough pool/lake you run into the risk of spiked jungle slimes spawning at the bottom and floating to the top but that in particular can easily be avoided by having your fishing lake be wide rather than deep.
I suppose, though actually making it deep enough into the jungle to find a suitable lake in the first place is what I was concerned about. It's very difficult to do when everything spams in your face and two shots you, I guess I just need to wait for living inside the jungle instead of doing that from the beginning. :D
"and if you know what you're doing you can't even fight one of them most of the time." I take it you don't like corruption much? I know it is statistically inferior for everyone but mages but don't diss people who prefer to have corruption after all as of 1.4 the only things actually restricted by world type are the evil biome chest, whether the Dryad sells corrupt/crimson grass walls on a blood moon, and whether the Steampunker sells Red solution and the Flesh Cloning Vat/ or Purple Solution and the Decay Chamber. Everything else can technically be acquired in one world by making an artificial alternate evil biome and importing seeds/blocks is only needed if you want it prehardmode as the alternate evil seeds can be acquired in hardmode.
Yes, but why wouldn't you use Crimson armor in prehardmode? I actually have been going around telling people about the fact that you basically get both evils in hardmode, but you really don't benefit from the Cuffs enough in prehardmode to spurn the sheer ridiculousness of the Brain of Confusion and Crimson Armor.
 
Top Bottom