Expand Your Terraria Empire - Pylons, Town Building, and NPC Happiness

I put forth a similar idea previously. I believe your idea is just a tad bit too strict though, a much more lenient and enjoyable one that still has balance would be
0 requirements: Increased prices
1 requirement: Normal prices
2 requirements: Decreased prices
3 requirements: Unlocked pylon
I predict that's what the system is going to be, and it makes the most sense. I don't see ReLogic making box housing impossible, just a bit unpreferable.
To each their own I guess. Not everyone can build like Khaios. Lol.

I fail to see how it is strict though. Everyone has to leave the nest at some point, if you get what I mean.

Having all of your storage in one location is neither ethical nor unethical. It's just reasonable placement. Allowing NPC box prisons to exist as a permanent measure... is hardly allowing creativity to thrive.

Admittedly, I construct one NPC box house per world, but it only serves as a notification system for when the next NPC moves in and needs an actual home.
 
I would be extremely surprised if this penalty was anything larger than 10%. And the bonuses for doing it are probably going to be larger than the penalties for not, in terms of straight prices. That being said, this one time I started a world and within 10 minutes found 2 pots that spewed out close to 15 gold each. Sorry, got a little bit off topic. Most of the people who prefer to build a huge central area are probably not actually going to be too impacted by the penalties. This other time I had a pirate invasion happen and walked away with 2 platinum in less than 10 minutes. Oops, my bad, it happened again. Now where was I? Oh yeah. As someone who primarily puts all of their NPCs in the exact type of prison as described and poked fun at several times, I can honestly say that this is literally not going to affect me or my enjoyment of the game negatively at all. The feature for pylons didn't exist last time I built a mega base, and if I do it again after the new update, literally nothing changes except a "price penalty" that, as I previously estimated, is probably not going to be larger than 10%. I don't know anything about it, but I doubt it's going to be an exorbitant amount.

Now, the pylons. A mechanic that is rewarded to the player for participating in this content, and not rewarded to the player for not participating in the content. There are a lot of things in this game, and other games, that are rewarded by participating. As mentioned, I do not participate in the content of building multiple bases by default. So how does this new information and new content affect me? Currently, it makes me want to try my hand at building multiple bases. The worst thing that happens if I opt out of doing that, is the game plays exactly the same as it does before this update. It's not like I have to watch everyone else in my world gain an advantage because they're participating in content that I am not. The world I play on, if the participants choose to have one big central base, will play exactly the same as it did before this update, save for the "penalty" of increased prices. My last playthrough I had enough money to buy every single item as it became available from every single NPC that I unlocked, as they arrived, with tons of money leftover by the time I finished the actual progression of the game, wherein I could then buy all of the extremely optional high-expense items for the sheer sake of collecting them at my leisure. Dang, I really gotta break that habit of passive aggressively suggesting that it's extremely easy as it is to make money in Terraria and that the imposed penalty that has probably been thoroughly tested by at least a dozen dedicated testers has probably been deemed completely fair, several of whom probably have the proclivity of making massive central super-bases anyway.

So, what are the obvious downsides? Of course, the trade penalty. Of course, the pylon penalty. Of course, the not-having-a-centralized-base penalty. Is the trade penalty such a deal breaker in the sense that money is so important to some players that even a marginal tax is enough to completely cripple the player's economy, but not enough of a deal breaker that the player has to make settlements in order to circumvent the trade penalty when money is so clearly a driving force in the game? I don't know, that's not a question for me to answer. The pylon penalty. Does the requirement of building multiple settlements in order to institute a rapid transit system between the settlements outweigh the actual benefits of having all of your NPCs easily accessible in one super-base despite the fact that most of the NPCs are most assuredly not being used on a day-to-day basis as it is, especially later on in the game when certain NPCs become redundant if not completely invalidated? I don't know, not really a question for me to answer. I think the real problem here, that a lot of people might not be willing to admit...is that it's a change. A lot of people see it as an attack on their playstyle. In actuality, it's the encouragement of other playstyles. Yes, I'm aware that some people will argue that it's a discouragement of their playstyle. Yeah, I guess you have a point? But if the prices/costs were nerfed/increased across the board, without it being tied to the actual happiness of NPCs, and the only thing that existed were the bonuses for making NPCs happy and the penalty for unhappy NPCs didn't exist, I feel like people wouldn't be as mad...despite the fact that it would be the exact same in the long run.

Why shouldn't the dryad be happier in the jungle, the shroomlord be happier in glowing mushroom biome, the fisher be happier in near the ocean? Why shouldn't there be bonuses associated with that. People have been asking for that for awhile, to have better benefits for exactly that. As easy as it is to make money in this game, the update is probably going to make it even easier to get money. I don't consider it a discouragement of the systems that have been in place for years; I consider it a slight nerf to money usage, which can be completely negated by NPC happiness (and we don't even know how easily it will be negated at stage 1, btw...I predict pretty easily.)

I for one am excited. I exist exactly in the demographic that is most heavily impacted by these changes, and yet...I see them as utterly inconsequential and I will gladly try my hand at building multiple bases. I see them as settlements and my reward for said settlements and thinking about which NPCs should live together and how to make them happy will be enhanced and speedy travel across the map, not that there's any dearth of ways to quickly get around the map in this game. And if that fails for whatever reason, I will still have a super base rigged up in the center of the map, I will still have my queen and king statues, and then I'll just see about making artificial biomes attached to my base and see how they deal with that. In the grand scheme of things, I don't even remotely consider it a deal breaker. I understand people's frustrations, I understand that people feel insulted, slighted, annoyed at the changes, I simply do not share any of the sentiments, and I definitely don't see it as a change that's going to be relevant in the long run of my next playthrough. That's just my opinion and analysis of these minor changes. And yes, I do entirely consider them minor.
 
Yes it does not say in the post the exact requirements, but this is RELOGIC we're talking about. The people who made the masterpiece of Terraria.

The same "RELOGIC" who put the Goblin Tinkerer's RNG-based upgrade system in the game. The same "RELOGIC" who made drop rates for items like biome keys so exceedingly low that it basically requires tedious farming to get them to drop. The same "RELOGIC" that forced a 1-minute spawn timer on the final boss, while simultaneously giving it a whopping nine unique drops. The same "RELOGIC" that put the Mechanical Minecart in Expert Mode, so that people who don't want to play it still have to create such a world just to get a more convenient cart experience.

Terraria is a good game; don't get me wrong. But they're hardly batting 1.000 in terms of not adding irritating mechanics to the game.

And when a mechanic is stated in the initial post to be something to get people to stop building their housing a certain way, that suggests to me that we're dealing the the "over-controlling" version of "RELOGIC", not the "let them do what they want" version.
 
I would be extremely surprised if this penalty was anything larger than 10%. And the bonuses for doing it are probably going to be larger than the penalties for not, in terms of straight prices. That being said, this one time I started a world and within 10 minutes found 2 pots that spewed out close to 15 gold each. Sorry, got a little bit off topic. Most of the people who prefer to build a huge central area are probably not actually going to be too impacted by the penalties. This other time I had a pirate invasion happen and walked away with 2 platinum in less than 10 minutes. Oops, my bad, it happened again. Now where was I? Oh yeah. As someone who primarily puts all of their NPCs in the exact type of prison as described and poked fun at several times, I can honestly say that this is literally not going to affect me or my enjoyment of the game negatively at all. The feature for pylons didn't exist last time I built a mega base, and if I do it again after the new update, literally nothing changes except a "price penalty" that, as I previously estimated, is probably not going to be larger than 10%. I don't know anything about it, but I doubt it's going to be an exorbitant amount.

Now, the pylons. A mechanic that is rewarded to the player for participating in this content, and not rewarded to the player for not participating in the content. There are a lot of things in this game, and other games, that are rewarded by participating. As mentioned, I do not participate in the content of building multiple bases by default. So how does this new information and new content affect me? Currently, it makes me want to try my hand at building multiple bases. The worst thing that happens if I opt out of doing that, is the game plays exactly the same as it does before this update. It's not like I have to watch everyone else in my world gain an advantage because they're participating in content that I am not. The world I play on, if the participants choose to have one big central base, will play exactly the same as it did before this update, save for the "penalty" of increased prices. My last playthrough I had enough money to buy every single item as it became available from every single NPC that I unlocked, as they arrived, with tons of money leftover by the time I finished the actual progression of the game, wherein I could then buy all of the extremely optional high-expense items for the sheer sake of collecting them at my leisure. Dang, I really gotta break that habit of passive aggressively suggesting that it's extremely easy as it is to make money in Terraria and that the imposed penalty that has probably been thoroughly tested by at least a dozen dedicated testers has probably been deemed completely fair, several of whom probably have the proclivity of making massive central super-bases anyway.

So, what are the obvious downsides? Of course, the trade penalty. Of course, the pylon penalty. Of course, the not-having-a-centralized-base penalty. Is the trade penalty such a deal breaker in the sense that money is so important to some players that even a marginal tax is enough to completely cripple the player's economy, but not enough of a deal breaker that the player has to make settlements in order to circumvent the trade penalty when money is so clearly a driving force in the game? I don't know, that's not a question for me to answer. The pylon penalty. Does the requirement of building multiple settlements in order to institute a rapid transit system between the settlements outweigh the actual benefits of having all of your NPCs easily accessible in one super-base despite the fact that most of the NPCs are most assuredly not being used on a day-to-day basis as it is, especially later on in the game when certain NPCs become redundant if not completely invalidated? I don't know, not really a question for me to answer. I think the real problem here, that a lot of people might not be willing to admit...is that it's a change. A lot of people see it as an attack on their playstyle. In actuality, it's the encouragement of other playstyles. Yes, I'm aware that some people will argue that it's a discouragement of their playstyle. Yeah, I guess you have a point? But if the prices/costs were nerfed/increased across the board, without it being tied to the actual happiness of NPCs, and the only thing that existed were the bonuses for making NPCs happy and the penalty for unhappy NPCs didn't exist, I feel like people wouldn't be as mad...despite the fact that it would be the exact same in the long run.

Why shouldn't the dryad be happier in the jungle, the shroomlord be happier in glowing mushroom biome, the fisher be happier in near the ocean? Why shouldn't there be bonuses associated with that. People have been asking for that for awhile, to have better benefits for exactly that. As easy as it is to make money in this game, the update is probably going to make it even easier to get money. I don't consider it a discouragement of the systems that have been in place for years; I consider it a slight nerf to money usage, which can be completely negated by NPC happiness (and we don't even know how easily it will be negated at stage 1, btw...I predict pretty easily.)

I for one am excited. I exist exactly in the demographic that is most heavily impacted by these changes, and yet...I see them as utterly inconsequential and I will gladly try my hand at building multiple bases. I see them as settlements and my reward for said settlements and thinking about which NPCs should live together and how to make them happy will be enhanced and speedy travel across the map, not that there's any dearth of ways to quickly get around the map in this game. And if that fails for whatever reason, I will still have a super base rigged up in the center of the map, I will still have my queen and king statues, and then I'll just see about making artificial biomes attached to my base and see how they deal with that. In the grand scheme of things, I don't even remotely consider it a deal breaker. I understand people's frustrations, I understand that people feel insulted, slighted, annoyed at the changes, I simply do not share any of the sentiments, and I definitely don't see it as a change that's going to be relevant in the long run of my next playthrough. That's just my opinion and analysis of these minor changes. And yes, I do entirely consider them minor.
You have managed to sum up my feelings about this update perfectly. Wonderful comment.

Everyone else who is currently debating against me, take a good look at this comment. If that doesn't convince you, nothing will.
 
This looks cool and all but


I'm pretty sure that the NPC's that aren't close will die because of that
Bosses only specifically target players and invasions are only active when you're close anyway. Being far away from your town is a tried and true method of sparing your townsfolk from Blood Moons and Eclipses.
 
I for one am excited. I exist exactly in the demographic that is most heavily impacted by these changes, and yet...I see them as utterly inconsequential and I will gladly try my hand at building multiple bases. I see them as settlements and my reward for said settlements and thinking about which NPCs should live together and how to make them happy will be enhanced and speedy travel across the map

I get that. But there were ways to achieve all of this without the happiness mechanic.

As I suggested in an earlier post, the idea of fast travel that is limited by biome is not a bad one. And the idea that it would also be limited by having NPCs present is also not unworkable. But having to make an NPC happy by putting them in a particular biome with a friend for 5 minutes just to get the Pylon?

How is that making the game better?
 
I get that. But there were ways to achieve all of this without the happiness mechanic.

As I suggested in an earlier post, the idea of fast travel that is limited by biome is not a bad one. And the idea that it would also be limited by having NPCs present is also not unworkable. But having to make an NPC happy by putting them in a particular biome with a friend for 5 minutes just to get the Pylon?

How is that making the game better?
Is it making the game worse?
 
... yes. If getting a Pylon is so trivial, then getting them is just added tedium. And tedium makes the game worse. This is on top of the irritation of potentially redesigning your base layout.

A Pylon is a powerful tool that has the functionality of a teleporter (a hardmode item) that requires no wiring (incredibly convenient, plus wiring is a post-skeletron feature) and is used to transport the player anywhere across the world. It HAS to be rather hard to get. Giving something with that power away at the beginning of the game simply for throwing NPCs into box houses would be broken. The current system is just fine.
 
Having all of your storage in one location is neither ethical nor unethical. It's just reasonable placement. Allowing NPC box prisons to exist as a permanent measure... is hardly allowing creativity to thrive.

I fail to understand how having a particular option stops creativity. What building arrangement does the 1.4 mechanic allow that was impossible in 1.3?
 
A Pylon is a powerful tool that has the functionality of a teleporter (a hardmode item) that requires no wiring (incredibly convenient, plus wiring is a post-skeletron feature) and is used to transport the player anywhere across the world. It HAS to be rather hard to get.

But it isn't hard to get. Just stick the right NPC in the right biome with the right friend for 5 minutes, and you get a Pylon. Determining which NPC and friend are "right" is equally trivial, since the game just tells you.

And once you have the Pylon, you can go back to shoving them in a box.
 
But it isn't hard to get. Just stick the right NPC in the right biome with the right friend for 5 minutes, and you get a Pylon. Determining which NPC and friend are "right" is equally trivial, since the game just tells you.

And once you have the Pylon, you can go back to shoving them in a box.

If it's that simple then why are you upset

"oh no i have to stop cramming my npcs in tight rooms compact together in one biome in a bad arrangement in order to receive normal prices over slightly increased prices, how ever shall i cope with this without spending 300000 hours on building beautiful houses across the world"

If you want to argue that prices will be more than slightly increased, then I assure you ReLogic would not make it an unfair increase.
If you want to argue that you need to spend extra time and effort on building houses, that extra time and effort is more than balanced out by having permanent teleporters across the entire world for your entire playthrough.
If you want to argue that people who really want a confined tiny npc prison system for ultimate convenience shouldn't have to pay extra, then they simply must change. As games are updated, the meta changes. The optimal strategies always change. There's always a new best way to do things with every update. This update is changing the best way to make optimal NPC houses. There's nothing to complain about. If you want to make an ultimate convenience NPC prison, it's going to be harder now since before all you had to do was build one singular optimal room over and over and over lined up in one location and there you have it, OPTIMAL NPC placement. That's rather easy, isn't it? This update is changing that, since it's a tad bit unbalanced to be able to have such easy access to all NPCs in the game.

The Truffle is a wonderful NPC in my opinion since it ONLY lives in the Glowing Mushroom biome. That requirement causes you to need to go out of your way to earn the Truffle rather than just add an additional cookie cutter room to your massive NPC prison.

Man, my favorite part of Terraria is creating 24 basic NPC prisons out of wood on top of my storage system!!! /s
 
If it's that simple then why are you upset

"oh no i have to stop cramming my npcs in tight rooms compact together in one biome in a bad arrangement in order to receive normal prices over slightly increased prices, how ever shall i cope with this without spending 300000 hours on building beautiful houses across the world"

If you want to argue that prices will be more than slightly increased, then I assure you ReLogic would not make it an unfair increase.
If you want to argue that you need to spend extra time and effort on building houses, that extra time and effort is more than balanced out by having permanent teleporters across the entire world for your entire playthrough.
If you want to argue that people who really want a confined tiny npc prison system for ultimate convenience shouldn't have to pay extra, then they simply must change. As games are updated, the meta changes. The optimal strategies always change. There's always a new best way to do things with every update. This update is changing the best way to make optimal NPC houses. There's nothing to complain about. If you want to make an ultimate convenience NPC prison, it's going to be harder now since before all you had to do was build one singular optimal room over and over and over lined up in one location and there you have it, OPTIMAL NPC placement. That's rather easy, isn't it? This update is changing that, since it's a tad bit unbalanced to be able to have such easy access to all NPCs in the game.

The Truffle is a wonderful NPC in my opinion since it ONLY lives in the Glowing Mushroom biome. That requirement causes you to need to go out of your way to earn the Truffle rather than just add an additional cookie cutter room to your massive NPC prison.

Man, my favorite part of Terraria is creating 24 basic NPC prisons out of wood on top of my storage system!!! /s
Listen, we're all here to give and not to receive. Nothing will come from this; no agreement will be met. The only thing both sides have in common is that we want to push a narrative and ignore anything that goes against our agenda, to put it harshly. Instead of engaging in endless bickering and trading the same ideas back and forth, why don't we all just take a break, log off the forums, and wait for 1.4?

Disclaimer: I am not attempting to silence anyone's opinions here. But I'm sure you can admit that this is getting nowhere and that Re-Logic has made up their mind one way or another, whether we agree with it or not. Okay?
 
Listen, we're all here to give and not to receive. Nothing will come from this; no agreement will be met. The only thing both sides have in common is that we want to push a narrative and ignore anything that goes against our agenda, to put it harshly. Instead of engaging in endless bickering and trading the same ideas back and forth, why don't we all just take a break, log off the forums, and wait for 1.4?

Disclaimer: I am not attempting to silence anyone's opinions here. But I'm sure you can admit that this is getting nowhere and that Re-Logic has made up their mind one way or another, whether we agree with it or not. Okay?

Very wise idea.

Hope you guys enjoy 1.4, I sure will. Looking forwards to Journey Mode in hopes of it being a better way to make adventure maps. Also hoping for Pylons to be capable of being enabled and disabled through wires to help adventure map makers.
 
Listen, we're all here to give and not to receive. Nothing will come from this; no agreement will be met. The only thing both sides have in common is that we want to push a narrative and ignore anything that goes against our agenda, to put it harshly.

Wait, what? You're effectively accusing me of arguing disingenuously. That I'm not actually making a point, that I'm just "pushing a narrative" and "ignoring anything" that isn't on "our agenda". And you make this claim without citing one post where I have done this.

That's an... interesting perspective on this debate to say the least.
 
Wait, what? You're effectively accusing me of arguing disingenuously. That I'm not actually making a point, that I'm just "pushing a narrative" and "ignoring anything" that isn't on "our agenda". And you make this claim without citing one post where I have done this.

That's an... interesting perspective on this debate to say the least.

so whatever happened so subjectivity amirite
 
But it isn't hard to get. Just stick the right NPC in the right biome with the right friend for 5 minutes, and you get a Pylon. Determining which NPC and friend are "right" is equally trivial, since the game just tells you.

And once you have the Pylon, you can go back to shoving them in a box.
No, actually you need to keep 2 NPCs near your pylon to keep it running.

Also I don't see how them adding a feature you're UNWILLING to work for is a strike against the game. I don't like Expert Mode and don't play it, you don't see me crying about the exclusive content I can't access.
 
While I think his "pushing an agenda" part is a bit disingenuous, I'd have to agree that there's clearly two sides of this coin here and it's to a point where debating is pointless as the people who have their current opinions aren't going to change them. I'm glad to at least have gotten out my concerns.
Apologies for that, I can be as blunt as a club when "needed" plus I couldn't think of a better and more eye-catching term at the time. :p But I didn't pick a side.
 
Wait, what? You're effectively accusing me of arguing disingenuously. That I'm not actually making a point, that I'm just "pushing a narrative" and "ignoring anything" that isn't on "our agenda". And you make this claim without citing one post where I have done this.

That's an... interesting perspective on this debate to say the least.
No offense was intended; notice how I didn't once pick a side. All I'm saying is hold your horses, calm down, and wait. It will be a better use of everyone's time to discuss this new mechanic once we have gotten a chance to experience it; we have been spared of all the details for now.

All I meant is, Person A is saying "Imo this is how it should work", and Person B replies "I disagree, this is how it should work"; this discussion is fine, but it only ended in the same arguments being tossed back and forth and, at some points, a little bit of bickering. No one has to be a "yes man" but nothing productive is coming out of this like I said before. There's no point discussing a feature when we only know the basics on how it will work. Save judgement for later. :)
 
This is amazing! I have always loved the NPCs and I am so glad they get even more personality!

And did anybody else notice those cool new life and mana bars???

Also I see crystal trees and some sort of crystal bunny.
 
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