Items My take on ranger life steal

Which aquisition method would you prefer?

  • Biome Weapon Project

    Votes: 3 30.0%

  • HM Dungeon Drop (I'll expand on which enemy drops it, if this is the favored option.)

    Votes: 5 50.0%

  • Ankh Charm + Silver Bullet

    Votes: 1 10.0%

  • Lunar Boss Drop Table

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Total voters
    10
Scironex

Scironex

The Destroyer
BLUH BLUH, LIFESTEAL OP, BLUH BLUH!
YEAH, I'VE HEARD IT ALL, SISTER. THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO ARGUE WHETHER OR NOT RANGERS SHOULD HAVE LIFESTEAL. THIS THREAD IS FOUNDED UPON THE BASIS THAT LIFESTEAL ISN'T GOING ANYWHERE, WHICH IT ISN'T. IF YOU'RE GOING TO COMMENT, ADD SOMETHING RELEVANT TO THE DISCUSSION, RATHER THAN BEAT THE CARCASS OF A LONG-DEAD HORSE.

"Oh, come on, Sciro, I don't think all that was necessary."
You might be right, Strawman, but I don't want to leave any doubt.

Anyway, to the meat of this suggestion. Rangers have an advantage over both mages and warriors in their incredibly high DPS. Not only that, but due to the nature of their class, i.e. ammo + weapon, they can't have a bullet nor gun that absorbs x% of damage dealt.

So, rather than most people, I'm ignoring the "bullet" and "gun" parts of that, and focusing on changing the "x% of damage dealt."

Acerbatus

index.php

(Sprite by Hunited.)

Damage 0
Knockback 1
Velocity 5

100% not to be consumed.
Every shot that lands restores HP equal to the weapon's use time.
Treated as a rocket, a bullet, and an arrow.
When used as a rocket, has an explosive radius about the same size as a Rocket I.

Due to the nature of this form of Ranger self-healing, the healing is always capped at 60 HP/s. And that's assuming that every shot lands.

EDIT: Since I didn't make it clear, only the first hit for multi-hit weapons counts for regeneration.

As for aquisition...
My first thought would be to have it included in @Baconfry's Crimson Biome Weapon Project. (Go check it out, it's awesome.)
My next would be for it to be dropped by HM Dungeon enemies. (The name means "Embittered", so I think it would fit.)
And finally, I thought it could be crafted with an Ankh Charm and a Silver Bullet. (Yeah, I'm the kind of person who thinks you should sink some time into the game for your endgame weapons.)
EDIT: Baconfry suggested that it be added to the Lunar Boss drop table. I personally think this is also an effective option. Feel free to change your votes.

You know, Strawman, I'm kind of surpised that you haven't butt in yet.
"You're going to get enough flak as it is. Let the complaints come from their rightful source."
 
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Ooh, a ranger lifesteal thread. These tend to attract all sorts of characters, don't they?

While I'm leaning slightly toward the idea that ranger lifesteal should be a property of one ranged weapon, this looks like a good solution too. Capping the regen is always a good policy (once I forgot to cap the regen on a lifesteal thread, and the flames raged for hours).

Having it crafted with an Ankh Charm is a little mean... maybe we could take a leap of faith and put it into the Lunar boss' drop table? If not, then yeah, we need a placeholder. HM Dungeon should do the trick.
 
Continuing on Pixel's concern, what of rockets? Those can hit multiple enemies at one go, and their weapons are slow enough to benefit it greatly. In a packed mob invasion, you can hit upward of five mobs with one shot.
 
The max lifesteal amount should be lowered, as that amount would be enough to survive in a moon event without moving due to the large targets, which would ensure the high regeneration.
 
I thought that it would be obvious, but you only get the regen for the first hit. Duh. I'll go ahead and add it to the OP anyway.
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ArkJ said:
How would this work with the Tsunami? Would you receive five Acerbatus for every one you fire?
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Oh, and by the way, this is ammo conservation not consumed, not never breaks not consumed. That is to say, when you fire it, the item never leaves your inventory.
 
TMB50 said:
The max lifesteal amount should be lowered, as that amount would be enough to survive in a moon event without moving due to the large targets, which would ensure the high regeneration.
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(Ugh, I hate it when I'm not careful and end up triple posting.)
Anyway, you take far more than 60 Dps when standing still in Moon Events, and the healing will never exceed 60 HP per second.
 
Scironex said:
(Ugh, I hate it when I'm not careful and end up triple posting.)
Anyway, you take far more than 60 Dps when standing still in Moon Events, and the healing will never exceed 60 HP per second.
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If you also take the hearts into account, which would often drop, then there is a good chance to survive doing that, specially as the only reason the player would be standing still gives a large damage buff.
 
TMB50 said:
If you also take the hearts into account, which would often drop, then there is a good chance to survive doing that, specially as the only reason the player would be standing still gives a large damage buff.
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Hearts ain't just gonna drop on top of you. Actually, let me revoke that. Let's say that you're standing at the spawning level of the Moon enemies. Player invincibility, assuming no Cross Necklace (You'd be going for Dps, here) is 2/3 of a second. The weakest Moon enemy, the Scarecrow, deals 52 damage. 52 / 2/3 = 78 Dps. Scarecrows have, on average, 520 HP. With max Dps and Shroomite Cloaking, your bonuses are 132% to damage and 72% to crit, giving 76% total crit.

If you're using the Tsunami:
60 * 2.32 * 1.76 * 5 = 1224.96
1224.96 * 60/23 = 3195.54 Dps
3195.54/520 = 6.14 Scarecrows per second.
Hearts drop at 8.3%
0.083 * 6.14 = ~0.5 Hearts per second.
0.5 * 20 = 10 HP per second.
10 + 60 = 70.
Therefore, with the Tsunami, you'd still be draining, at absolute minimum, 8 HP per second. Over the course of 60 seconds, that's 480, meaning Greater Healing Potions will not save you.

If you're using the Chain Gun:
31 * 2.32 * 1.76 = 126.58
126.58 * 60/4 = 1898.69 Dps
1898.69/520 = 3.65 Scarecrows per second.
0.083 * 3.65 = ~0.3 Hearts per second.
0.3 * 20 = 6 HP per second.
60 + 6 = 66 HP per second.
Therefore, with the Chain Gun, you'd still be draining a minimum of 12 HP per second. Over the course of 60 seconds, that's 720, meaning you'd be dead by the time Greater Healing Potions would be relevant.

Do I need to add the calculations for the Snowman Cannon? Because I don't believe that I do.
Also, the minibosses of the events are irrelevant, because they have at least 23 times as much health as the Scarecrows and I'm certain that they don't drop 23 times as many hearts.
 
Scironex said:
Hearts ain't just gonna drop on top of you. Actually, let me revoke that. Let's say that you're standing at the spawning level of the Moon enemies. Player invincibility, assuming no Cross Necklace (You'd be going for Dps, here) is 2/3 of a second. The weakest Moon enemy, the Scarecrow, deals 52 damage. 52 / 2/3 = 78 Dps. Scarecrows have, on average, 520 HP. With max Dps and Shroomite Cloaking, your bonuses are 132% to damage and 72% to crit, giving 76% total crit.

If you're using the Tsunami:
60 * 2.32 * 1.76 * 5 = 1224.96
1224.96 * 60/23 = 3195.54 Dps
3195.54/520 = 6.14 Scarecrows per second.
Hearts drop at 8.3%
0.083 * 6.14 = ~0.5 Hearts per second.
0.5 * 20 = 10 HP per second.
10 + 60 = 70.
Therefore, with the Tsunami, you'd still be draining, at absolute minimum, 8 HP per second. Over the course of 60 seconds, that's 480, meaning Greater Healing Potions will not save you.

If you're using the Chain Gun:
31 * 2.32 * 1.76 = 126.58
126.58 * 60/4 = 1898.69 Dps
1898.69/520 = 3.65 Scarecrows per second.
0.083 * 3.65 = ~0.3 Hearts per second.
0.3 * 20 = 6 HP per second.
60 + 6 = 66 HP per second.
Therefore, with the Chain Gun, you'd still be draining a minimum of 12 HP per second. Over the course of 60 seconds, that's 720, meaning you'd be dead by the time Greater Healing Potions would be relevant.

Do I need to add the calculations for the Snowman Cannon? Because I don't believe that I do.
Also, the minibosses of the events are irrelevant, because they have at least 23 times as much health as the Scarecrows and I'm certain that they don't drop 23 times as many hearts.
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But they do always drop hearts, and several of them, in fact.
 
My main issue with this is that there is pretty much no way to switch ammos quickly as a ranger (other than autopause, and that doesn't even work in multiplayer). That makes this a little annoying to use (melee I can switch weapons, and for mage at least it's pretty quick, just right click the Mask/Hood to switch it out), as I'm not necessarily always going to want Lifesteal.

I do support the general concept though.
 
TMB50 said:
But they do always drop hearts, and several of them, in fact.
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Actually, now that I think about it, that is a good point. But I also thought of a better way to revoke the significance of your entire argument.

Both the Spectre hood and the Vampire Knives can heal up to 40 HP per second. If you are standing still using the Hood, you will die. If you are standing still while using the Knives, you will die, even if wearing the Beetle Shell. This can heal 60 HP per second. First off, note that Shroomite Armor has less defense. Specifically, it has 51/73rds as much defense, which translates into ~ 30% less defense. Second, note that this heals ~ 33% more health. That 3% extra is 1.2 HP per second, which wouldn't be enough to save you in the Shell, and isn't enough to save you in Shroomite.

But besides all of this, I defer to my default argument - Lifesteal is introduced, for all paths, at the same point where Dps is king. All Lifesteal at present presents itself in a way that lowers Dps, be it raw (Spectre Hood), or an opportunity cost. (Vampire Knives.) In this case it is an opportunity cost, since while using Acerbatus, you cannot use, say, Crystal Bullets.
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LoM2 said:
My main issue with this is that there is pretty much no way to switch ammos quickly as a ranger
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This ammo is treated as a Rocket, a bullet, and an arrow. You can switch from, say, the Chain Gun loaded with Crystal Bullets to the Tsunami loaded with this.
 
nice idea, but maybe it should just heal a set amount of health plus the damage of the bow. and i think it should be obtained as a drop from plantera or golem. if the lunar boss dropped it, you wouldn't be able to use it against him until you had already defeated him.
 
neoselket said:
nice idea, but maybe it should just heal a set amount of health plus the damage of the bow.
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This heals exactly 60 HP per second during optimal use, no matter what weapon you use. That was the intention, and I'm sticking to it.
neoselket said:
and i think it should be obtained as a drop from plantera or golem. if the lunar boss dropped it, you wouldn't be able to use it against him until you had already defeated him.
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The idea was for it to be obtained post-Plantera, but I don't have any objections to it being obtained after the Lunar Boss. That's why that's an option. And all due respect, but I'm not looking for feedback on the listed obtainment methods down here. That's what the poll's for.
 
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