Game Mechanics On the issue of social accessory slots in 1.4

Even then, it is a no brain decision from Relogic. Of course in general Relogic never thinks about their changes or playtest them.
The game has over 5000 different items now. The game still has the same inventory it had when there was less than 500 items.
Every single enemy in the game throws at least one item unique to it (banner for example) and some rare item it might share with other creatures.
The inventory is still the same size.
We have armor sets for mining, fishing, vanities.
Still the same inventory.

Relogic works extremely hard on implementing their worst ideas...
Well I can personally confirm that 1.4 was playtested pretty extensively.
The game may have many many more items, but they aren't all around at the same point in the game, so it's not really an accurate figure. Like ppowersteef said, the inventory has got bigger in 1.4, not smaller with the introduction of the void vault.

You must remember that vanity slots were never intended to be allowed for this sort of equip swapping - it was an unintended side effect. They haven't removed any intended features.
 
Mode
Well I can personally confirm that 1.4 was playtested pretty extensively.
The game may have many many more items, but they aren't all around at the same point in the game, so it's not really an accurate figure. Like ppowersteef said, the inventory has got bigger in 1.4, not smaller with the introduction of the void vault.

You must remember that vanity slots were never intended to be allowed for this sort of equip swapping - it was an unintended side effect. They haven't removed any intended features.
Intended or not, before fix, it was better. After fix, it is worse.
In my office, we don't call that a fix, my clients wield guns and if I were to fix their problems like that, I'd fly out the window.

The devs like it or not, the fact is, with all the different gear setups forced on us we need loadouts in easily accessible, convinient spaces.

We will get this feature some time in the future. It is undeniable. Then why struggle against improvement if it is inevitable. Why make a problem worse now so they have to admit they goofed up and fix it only after.

Terraria development in a nutshell.
 
Not to argue, but if +40 inventory slots aren't quite enough, then why would that +5 or so matter that very much?

I do get the point of being able to quickly switch items though, in that regards, yes, it could be convinient, but... it would be better then, to have a row like that, and a row for vanity, which is actually used for vanity, and for quick switch (though it still could be used for that too, with items that change the character's looks)
to prevent characters ending up looking like a christmas tree adorned with a bunch of gadgets. because I think that's the thing what brings up other ideas on the same line too, like being able to hide vanity accessories, which makes perfect sense in that regards, but are just the opposite what vanity is supposed to be about...
The best way to implement that is to make vanity hide-able and returning the system to how it used to be. Some people are suggesting adding a separate row for quick-swap items along with vanity, which imo is not a good idea. Consider new players, who have barely started playing, and see this massive mess of accessory slots, they'll just get more intimidated by it. Already, in the current state, the system of 3 rows is confusing and intimidating to some.

It is the inconvience of managing my inventory through chests instead of having access to that inventory without chests floating around and still having extremely small inventory in comparison to the massive amounts of junk AND getting the vanity accessory treatment on top of that

Inventory management in 1.3 was awful. It got worse. If anything, it should get better in an update and not worse.
The major problem lies in what I've already mentioned in this thread - the further the game goes with updates, the more items there are that you want to keep in your inventory at all times. Now they've made so you have to also hold your accessories there. Adding more inventories doesn't help at all, actually only makes it that much more inconvenient to sort all the mess out once you get to use every single of the extra storages. One thing that could make the vault better it to make it so items that give their effects when they are in inventory (like PDA) also give their effects when they're in the vault. Alternatively piggy bank.

Oh, and regarding all extra storages: in many cases, Safe and Defender's Forge are not used, the reason being the fact that they are required to be placed on something. And they all fill 4 slots in total in the inventory. Would be useful if it was just like in one of the mods, Luiafk I think, which allowed you to combine piggy, safe, forge and portable fairy merchant into one thing that when used would summon all these storages floating near you.

Now that I think about it, another good idea would be, when clicking quick stack to nearby chests, make it so it also takes and quick stacks items from your vault.

Well I can personally confirm that 1.4 was playtested pretty extensively.
The game may have many many more items, but they aren't all around at the same point in the game, so it's not really an accurate figure. Like ppowersteef said, the inventory has got bigger in 1.4, not smaller with the introduction of the void vault.

You must remember that vanity slots were never intended to be allowed for this sort of equip swapping - it was an unintended side effect. They haven't removed any intended features.
They've messed up the inventory management and then added an extra inventory storage to compensate, in the meantime adding more annoyance to sorting all of it out. Seeing as, even though it was theoretically "abused" mechanic that was unintended, why couldn't they have made it as an official mechanic instead? It would make players happy rather than annoy them. It has been a feature for pretty much the entire lifetime of Terraria (armor vanity slots existed since first versions of the game), so taking notice now, after 9 years, that it's an abusable mechanic?

Maybe from the game developers' side it looks differently. But as a player I can very well say that taking something away, especially if it's been there for so long that it has pretty much become known as an unofficially intended mechanic, can make the playerbase annoyed to an extent that can make players just leave (probably won't happen too much, knowing how good Terraria overall is, but that doesn't speak well of the devs, since it can make players think that devs abuse the popularity of their game). However, what gives devs respect from the community's side, is if they take a look at the unintended features, and instead of straight up saying "they are unintended, we're deleting them", they try to view them as players, how players use these mechanics, and turn bugs/glitches/unintended mechanics into actual features. I know a good example, Warframe, where there used to be a glitch where doing certain movement with melee weapons made you fly through entire maps. Devs took this idea and instead of removing the feature, they replaced the bug with a feature called bullet jumping, which allows your character to launch themselves in any direction, adding tons of mobility and dynamism to the combat.

Of course in Terraria's case it's not as huge - but instead of outright removing the ability to use vanity slots for accessory swapping, they should've looked at the gameplay from the players' perspective. What they should've noticed, both before applying the "fix", and after, in the testing phase, is:
  • the players are using the vanity slots for quick accessory swapping for a reason: it's simple, it's quick. All you had to do is press right click once for each accessory. Now you have to manually carry the accessories from inventory into the desired slot and then put the swapped accessory back into inventory and (most likely) favorite it.
  • the players used vanity slots because over the updates, you have more items to carry in your inventory, that clutter the space. Those all range from tools, fishing stuff, alt equipment, stat-showers (like GPS), torches, and now, with the changes, also alternative accessories.
  • the game doesn't have any other GOOD way of quickly swapping accessories. Right-click swapping from inventory used to be really messy, because it often ended up screwing the order of accessories in your equipment section, and now it just doesn't exist anymore (right-clickint only swaps the top-most accessory).
  • It still does NOT solve the problem of players using these slots for extra inventory space. Accessories that you find for example in chests (Hermes Boots, Cloud in a Bottle, etc.) are often placeable in the vanity slots, because they have visible textures. Not even mentioning how you can put all armor that you don't want to clutter your inventory with into vanity slots.
Taking all that into account, not only shouldn't they have removed the feature, but actually make it a better one: by adding extra buttons to make vanity invisible. Would actually make players very happy and make them have much more respect towards the devs, because the players will see that devs are trying to view the game from the players' perspective and that they are working towards giving players a much better experience.
 
Consider new players, who have barely started playing, and see this massive mess of accessory slots, they'll just get more intimidated by it. Already, in the current state, the system of 3 rows is confusing and intimidating to some.
That is a reasonable counter-argument there.
Piterros990 cuts it, this is what I think, but happens to be too lengthy to write on mobile! On a serious note, I agree with everyhing.

Darthmorf, I understand being a moderator comes with a specific mindset, but go on youtube. Look at it.
Every. Single. Influencer. Paid or not, promoted by Relogic or not, they all hate this specific change. Many of them can eat up a lot of the nerfs, but this one is a thorn in their side and they call it out quite often.
Even the ones who make a living out of Terraria hate this change.
That speaks for us.
 
@Piterros990 @Kardfogu
I get your point that it can be intimidating to have several rows, but that can go for tons of other, otherwise amazing features too, at the start...

Point being, WHEN vanity is used as extra storage/quick switch, it makes sense to be able to hide them, etc. but then, let's just rename them as "extra", and stop calling them Vanity. because Vanity's purpose is, to add to the character's looks. and indeed, it allows for really amazing looks, if you combine this and that armor and accessory together.

On the other hand, when used as extra storage, you are a bit stronger and more practical, but end up looking silly with an inner tube, horseshoe baloon, cobalt shield, and 23 christmas three bulbs hanging from you. That is quite wacky, but doesn't quite looks like an actually cool warrior or something...

Aaand, it would led us back to the issue of actual vanity, that what if you want to use both quick switch, to make your life easier, aaand vanity too, to make you look cool? that is why I suggested adding another row, which acts as a quick switch column that makes your life easier, while also keeping the vanity column, so you can also tinker with the character's look more and make them look like a cool warrior, elegant mage, or whatever, instead of looking like a walking christmas tree.
 
Aaand, it would led us back to the issue of actual vanity, that what if you want to use both quick switch, to make your life easier, aaand vanity too, to make you look cool? that is why I suggested adding another row, which acts as a quick switch column that makes your life easier, while also keeping the vanity column, so you can also tinker with the character's look more and make them look like a cool warrior, elegant mage, or whatever, instead of looking like a walking christmas tree.
I'm not helping, but my combat and building setup only had - ranged build - 3 difference and all 3 of those were hidden by wings or skinless accessories.
In my case for example, Vanity slots worked for both Vanity and storage without changing my looks.
That took a lot of thinking tho.
 
I'm not helping, but my combat and building setup only had - ranged build - 3 difference and all 3 of those were hidden by wings or skinless accessories.
In my case for example, Vanity slots worked for both Vanity and storage without changing my looks.
That took a lot of thinking tho.
Of course you can have builds that are both practical And cool-looking, but oftentimes... the practical looks silly... which is why it would be good, if vanity would be actually vanity - and there would be another column to offer a remedy of the current problem with quick switch isn't as much an option (at least with items that don't have looks on the character)
 
@Piterros990 @Kardfogu
I get your point that it can be intimidating to have several rows, but that can go for tons of other, otherwise amazing features too, at the start...

Point being, WHEN vanity is used as extra storage/quick switch, it makes sense to be able to hide them, etc. but then, let's just rename them as "extra", and stop calling them Vanity. because Vanity's purpose is, to add to the character's looks. and indeed, it allows for really amazing looks, if you combine this and that armor and accessory together.

On the other hand, when used as extra storage, you are a bit stronger and more practical, but end up looking silly with an inner tube, horseshoe baloon, cobalt shield, and 23 christmas three bulbs hanging from you. That is quite wacky, but doesn't quite looks like an actually cool warrior or something...

Aaand, it would led us back to the issue of actual vanity, that what if you want to use both quick switch, to make your life easier, aaand vanity too, to make you look cool? that is why I suggested adding another row, which acts as a quick switch column that makes your life easier, while also keeping the vanity column, so you can also tinker with the character's look more and make them look like a cool warrior, elegant mage, or whatever, instead of looking like a walking christmas tree.
But like I said - it'll do more harm than good. Especially that now with Journey's End attracting tons of new players, they'll see the inventory as a huge mess. That's one aspect that many players, both those casual and veterans, as well as developers, overlook - the new player experience. That's what I'm suggesting - an ability to toggle visibility of the vanity slots. Of course they would have to be renamed, but that's what I described in my previous comment - analyzing the experience, considering different views and aspects, changing and polishing them to implement them in intended way that doesn't harm the players and actually fixes the problem.

And another step towards analysis is taking different opinions into consideration. So from our discussion there are two potential fix suggestions: mine is vanity visibility and yours is extra "swap-row". Now, while I see my suggestion as the best way of solving the old problem (and the problem with looking like a christmas tree), yours wouldn't be so bad if implemented properly.

Given a little thought, it could be implemented as a new one-time-use item, let's say some kind of Toolbelt. Upon using, it will add a new row for accessories - the one you suggested. You could toggle the visibility of these slots. The only problem is adding the proper point, when the player gets access to this consumable. Because you most likely will not be given this item at the start of the game. It can't be implemented too late either, since building accessories are available very early on, and you may make use of them early, when creating houses (especially now with the whole npc happiness system).

Nonetheless, especially from devs side - it will probably be easier for them to just make vanity visibility toggle-able (along with changing its name to something more appropriate, alternate equipment?) instead of implementing a whole extra row of equipment. But, if they were to fix the issue in a proper way (so not just yeeting the mechanic out), I think they should go for one of those two approaches.
 
But like I said - it'll do more harm than good. Especially that now with Journey's End attracting tons of new players, they'll see the inventory as a huge mess. That's one aspect that many players, both those casual and veterans, as well as developers, overlook - the new player experience. That's what I'm suggesting - an ability to toggle visibility of the vanity slots. Of course they would have to be renamed, but that's what I described in my previous comment - analyzing the experience, considering different views and aspects, changing and polishing them to implement them in intended way that doesn't harm the players and actually fixes the problem.

And another step towards analysis is taking different opinions into consideration. So from our discussion there are two potential fix suggestions: mine is vanity visibility and yours is extra "swap-row". Now, while I see my suggestion as the best way of solving the old problem (and the problem with looking like a christmas tree), yours wouldn't be so bad if implemented properly.

Given a little thought, it could be implemented as a new one-time-use item, let's say some kind of Toolbelt. Upon using, it will add a new row for accessories - the one you suggested. You could toggle the visibility of these slots. The only problem is adding the proper point, when the player gets access to this consumable. Because you most likely will not be given this item at the start of the game. It can't be implemented too late either, since building accessories are available very early on, and you may make use of them early, when creating houses (especially now with the whole npc happiness system).

Nonetheless, especially from devs side - it will probably be easier for them to just make vanity visibility toggle-able (along with changing its name to something more appropriate, alternate equipment?) instead of implementing a whole extra row of equipment. But, if they were to fix the issue in a proper way (so not just yeeting the mechanic out), I think they should go for one of those two approaches.
If I were a new player, it would be more confusing to have 5 slots that didn't seem do anything than to have 5 slots which were for costuming only.
 
You must remember that vanity slots were never intended to be allowed for this sort of equip swapping - it was an unintended side effect. They haven't removed any intended features.
Hammering blocks so that you travel around a rectangular box at a rapid pace while a Boomerang defeats the Dungeon Guardian wasn't intended either, but that was preserved because it allowed "creativity."

Storing my Warrior Emblem in a vanity slot and swapping away from it in the menu to bring in a different accessory as I need it, then swapping back to it quickly wasn't intended either, but it was a creative use of those slots.

But clearly not creative enough.

When something that isn't harmful to the game is taken away, it feels like a slap in the face. It feels like the developers are telling me that I'm having fun the wrong way.
 
If I were a new player, it would be more confusing to have 5 slots that didn't seem do anything than to have 5 slots which were for costuming only.
I wasn't suggesting that, I was suggesting putting something like those little eyes near your normal accessory slots that toggle visibility. By default they should be on, so they'll work as vanity.
On the other hand, it would definitely be more confusing to have straight up 5 slots for vanity AND 5 that do nothing. That why, if I'd go for that idea, I'd implement it somewhere through the game, not straight up creation of the character.
 
I 100% agree with the points mentioned here. I'll add the fact that, as the game progresses further with updates, more and more inventory space is getting cluttered, be it potions, tools, stat-showers, torches, extra inventories, keys, now the teleportation shells, and on top of that they remove the insanely useful way of quickly swapping battle equipment, to let's say building. Oh, and speaking of torches, because of the absolutely fantastic luck mechanic now you may also clutter your inventory with different biome torches for every scenario, as well as a gnome and ladybugs.

I'm gonna be honest, slowly but surely the removal of all accessories being placeable in vanity slots is getting me infuriated. Like, every time I want to build something, I have to swap FOUR bloody accessories. FOUR. What could be done with four clicks in 1.3, now has to be done with... hm, grab first accessory from inventory, swap it with maybe this, put this back in inventory, favorite, put this instead of this, favorite... see where this is going? And one may say that you have 4 extra inventories to use freely. Haha, that's what I've always dreamt of, even more pain of inventory management and four extra inventories to spend your day on cleaning, YAY!

Okay, may have gone too far with the salt. But I can't be the only one who's annoyed by this, let's be honest, most of us players were using vanity slots for loadout swapping, not just for freeing some inventory space, which was the main reason why they removed this ability. Welp, I bet this, along with some other annoyances that caught my eye, if they aren't fixed beforehands of course, will be fixed via mods.
hey place 100 torched
I 100% agree with the points mentioned here. I'll add the fact that, as the game progresses further with updates, more and more inventory space is getting cluttered, be it potions, tools, stat-showers, torches, extra inventories, keys, now the teleportation shells, and on top of that they remove the insanely useful way of quickly swapping battle equipment, to let's say building. Oh, and speaking of torches, because of the absolutely fantastic luck mechanic now you may also clutter your inventory with different biome torches for every scenario, as well as a gnome and ladybugs.

I'm gonna be honest, slowly but surely the removal of all accessories being placeable in vanity slots is getting me infuriated. Like, every time I want to build something, I have to swap FOUR bloody accessories. FOUR. What could be done with four clicks in 1.3, now has to be done with... hm, grab first accessory from inventory, swap it with maybe this, put this back in inventory, favorite, put this instead of this, favorite... see where this is going? And one may say that you have 4 extra inventories to use freely. Haha, that's what I've always dreamt of, even more pain of inventory management and four extra inventories to spend your day on cleaning, YAY!

Okay, may have gone too far with the salt. But I can't be the only one who's annoyed by this, let's be honest, most of us players were using vanity slots for loadout swapping, not just for freeing some inventory space, which was the main reason why they removed this ability. Welp, I bet this, along with some other annoyances that caught my eye, if they aren't fixed beforehands of course, will be fixed via mods.
Hey have you done the torch god event/boss it fixes the issue of torches cluttering so please dont go mad because of a luck mechanic
 
hey place 100 torched
Hey have you done the torch god event/boss it fixes the issue of torches cluttering so please dont go mad because of a luck mechanic
Dunno if you realised, I posted this message BEFORE Torch God event was implemented. Look at the date first, then criticise.
 
.............. do you like torch god? also sorry ive only been here for 2 days and have no clue were the date is
Okay, it's fine :) Yeah, the Torch God imo was a very good feature. And it was implemented well, with the triggering mechanism, since I imagine it would be infuriating if it was a forced mechanic that you couldn't turn off. So it's a pure convenience mechanic that makes your life better in pretty much all scenarios.
 
But like I said - it'll do more harm than good. Especially that now with Journey's End attracting tons of new players, they'll see the inventory as a huge mess. That's one aspect that many players, both those casual and veterans, as well as developers, overlook - the new player experience. That's what I'm suggesting - an ability to toggle visibility of the vanity slots. Of course they would have to be renamed, but that's what I described in my previous comment - analyzing the experience, considering different views and aspects, changing and polishing them to implement them in intended way that doesn't harm the players and actually fixes the problem.

And another step towards analysis is taking different opinions into consideration. So from our discussion there are two potential fix suggestions: mine is vanity visibility and yours is extra "swap-row". Now, while I see my suggestion as the best way of solving the old problem (and the problem with looking like a christmas tree), yours wouldn't be so bad if implemented properly.

Given a little thought, it could be implemented as a new one-time-use item, let's say some kind of Toolbelt. Upon using, it will add a new row for accessories - the one you suggested. You could toggle the visibility of these slots. The only problem is adding the proper point, when the player gets access to this consumable. Because you most likely will not be given this item at the start of the game. It can't be implemented too late either, since building accessories are available very early on, and you may make use of them early, when creating houses (especially now with the whole npc happiness system).

Nonetheless, especially from devs side - it will probably be easier for them to just make vanity visibility toggle-able (along with changing its name to something more appropriate, alternate equipment?) instead of implementing a whole extra row of equipment. But, if they were to fix the issue in a proper way (so not just yeeting the mechanic out), I think they should go for one of those two approaches.
The problem with offering them work both as vanity and storage/quick swap is, that if you're offered to look cool, or be stronger/have less thouble, you would almost always choose the later. because looks is not as important. this brings us back the looking like a christmas three. now, if you have them being toggleable, you could hide all these garlands and lightbulbs, which is nice, but... with all slots used for quick swap, what else is left, to equip actual vanity...? that's why, for the sake of looks, vanity should be there, AND for the sake of QoL, a quick swap column could be added.

I think it's a win-win. At the cost of more stuff cluttering the screen...

I like your idea of having it appear if you consume an item - much like the torch god's favor.
How about making EoC or something drop this? EoC is the first major landmark in progress, and about the area in progress where quick swap start being helpful. it's early enough to count, and late enough to not confuse newbies, I think. EoW/BoC could work too, to some extent. Or have it being craftable from demonite/crimtane bars, so that player can potencially aquire it pre-EoC, but most likely post-EoC, since it drop a bunch of that ore.
 
The problem with offering them work both as vanity and storage/quick swap is, that if you're offered to look cool, or be stronger/have less thouble, you would almost always choose the later. because looks is not as important. this brings us back the looking like a christmas three. now, if you have them being toggleable, you could hide all these garlands and lightbulbs, which is nice, but... with all slots used for quick swap, what else is left, to equip actual vanity...? that's why, for the sake of looks, vanity should be there, AND for the sake of QoL, a quick swap column could be added.

I think it's a win-win. At the cost of more stuff cluttering the screen...

I like your idea of having it appear if you consume an item - much like the torch god's favor.
How about making EoC or something drop this? EoC is the first major landmark in progress, and about the area in progress where quick swap start being helpful. it's early enough to count, and late enough to not confuse newbies, I think. EoW/BoC could work too, to some extent. Or have it being craftable from demonite/crimtane bars, so that player can potencially aquire it pre-EoC, but most likely post-EoC, since it drop a bunch of that ore.
Yeah, that's a point I was mentioning, since (at least in my case) I usually used to put 3 building accessories into the vanity, so I was left with only 3 actual vanity slots. But I imagine many other players holding entire sets down there, so yeah, your suggestion makes sense. Although some may consider this too abusable... that's why I suggested an alternative, since the primary reason for this mechanic's removal was that it was abused.
 
Yeah, that's a point I was mentioning, since (at least in my case) I usually used to put 3 building accessories into the vanity, so I was left with only 3 actual vanity slots. But I imagine many other players holding entire sets down there, so yeah, your suggestion makes sense. Although some may consider this too abusable... that's why I suggested an alternative, since the primary reason for this mechanic's removal was that it was abused.
Yeah. Agree.
As for being abused, the old (pre 1.4) could been abused the same way, at the cost of vanity. now if you offer them to work as both, and be toggleable, most players will just use them for quick swap, which invalidates them being vanity. one issue solved (looking like a christmas tree) at the cost, that you couldn't always put cool vanity on the character, if used up all your slots for quick swap (which you might wanna do, because it's convinient)

Of course, this brings up the problem that, if you offer 5 actual slots, 5 quick swap slots, and 5 vanity slots, there surely will be some who just treat the 5 vanity as 5 additional quick swap, so we're somewhat returning to the starting problem, and it could bring us to a never ending circle... I don't know if there would be any good way to solve that, but, ignoring that it could be abused a bit, having 3 columns (+dye of course) could be a win-win, to have both cool looks and quick swap, making you both look great, and making your life easier.

There surely will be some who will abuse it, but what can you do... but, like just how it is now, with items having no appearance on the character not working in vanity, it could be abused a bit less.
 
Yeah. Agree.
As for being abused, the old (pre 1.4) could been abused the same way, at the cost of vanity. now if you offer them to work as both, and be toggleable, most players will just use them for quick swap, which invalidates them being vanity. one issue solved (looking like a christmas tree) at the cost, that you couldn't always put cool vanity on the character, if used up all your slots for quick swap (which you might wanna do, because it's convinient)

Of course, this brings up the problem that, if you offer 5 actual slots, 5 quick swap slots, and 5 vanity slots, there surely will be some who just treat the 5 vanity as 5 additional quick swap, so we're somewhat returning to the starting problem, and it could bring us to a never ending circle... I don't know if there would be any good way to solve that, but, ignoring that it could be abused a bit, having 3 columns (+dye of course) could be a win-win, to have both cool looks and quick swap, making you both look great, and making your life easier.

There surely will be some who will abuse it, but what can you do... but, like just how it is now, with items having no appearance on the character not working in vanity, it could be abused a bit less.
Yeah, like you said - 10 slots are more easily abusable than 5. So right now, with both those suggestions in mind, we'll see if the devs take notice of them and choose one (because they probably won't compromise both, especially with their opinion of abusability).
 
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