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Rod of Discord UN-Nerf?

Diablonar

Terrarian
I'm confused now. Does it appear commonly, or as rare as finding a strange plant or nymph?
Spawned by the player via relatively common resources, available pre-hardmode.

The reason is that this mob is already so insanely hard to defeat anyway, that only the proest tier players will be able to. And they can choose to do so at any level, but it will be a little bit more difficult the earlier tier you are, given the fact that you lack accessories to aid in your survival or even dodge this beast.
 

DJFlare84

Mechanic
I have fought to get the Rod of Discord an unnerfed version later in the game.
I even asked Cenx, at which point she responded with a vague comment that she'd see what she could do about it. But I'm not sure she even remembers that.

Here's the deal.
A lot of these points and MORE are mentioned in the link in my signature, actually (EDIT 06/10/2019) ... which... no longer works so I'll edit this post to talk about everything here.

I go into step by step every argument that's ever been made about how the RoD is supposedly overpowered including (and keep in mind this is talking about the old Rod of Discord before it got nerfed).

-----USING IT TO FLY-----
By the time you can get the Rod you've already got wings and really nothing is out of your reach anyway, so my reaction to this complaint is "... so what?".

-----USING IT TO AVOID DIGGING------
Again, "... so?". As Diablodoc mentions you have better options and honestly what does it even matter if you can teleport from tunnel to tunnel without having to overburden yourself with dirt and stone? That is literally the only benefit you achieve by exploring tunnels with the Rod of Discord instead of your pickaxe. And the issue of potentially using it to cheat your way into the temple has already been addressed by simply making you unable to teleport into an area with temple background blocks until you've opened the door. So...?

-----USING IT FOR FAST TRAVEL-----
Again, SO!? Why did people complain about the stupidest, most mundane things imaginable!? I mean, really!?

-----USING IT IN PVP-----
Now here's a complaint that isn't ridiculously stupid, but still a non-issue. In order to use the Rod of Discord you still have to SELECT it, which means you literally can't do anything else while you teleport around. If you're in a PvP fight with someone you're eventually going to have to swap to a weapon to kill them, and then you can't be using your RoD, now can you? Complete and total non-issue.

-----USING IT IN BOSS BATTLES-----
Here's where we run into the only valid gripe, which only applies to players with minions. One could summon their minions, then simply spam the Rod of Discord to avoid otherwise very difficult to avoid attacks. I could see this being used to easily cheese the Moon Lord.

With that in mind I still suggest my Chaos Overload idea, although taking minions into account, so you can't use it as much if you have minions on the field (like, each minion you have out subtracts a number of times you can use the Rod of Discord before Overloading).
 
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DestroyerArcher

The Destroyer
A lot of these points and MORE are mentioned in the link in my signature, actually. lol

I go into step by step every argument that's ever been made about how the RoD is supposedly overpowered including

- Using it to fly.
- Using it to spelunk without digging.
- Using it to travel quickly across a map.
- Using it in PvP.

So far the only one that actually matters is one that never gets mentioned by ANYONE until just recently. By me. Right here.

So with that in mind, I can agree the Rod of Discord needs some kind of limitation, but ONLY. FOR THAT. PURPOSE. AND NOTHING ELSE.

With that in mind I still suggest my Chaos Overload idea, although taking minions into account, so you can't use it as much if you have minions on the field (like, each minion you have out subtracts a number of times you can use the Rod of Discord before Overloading).
Minions? Even with the best minions they take ages to kill things.
 

DJFlare84

Mechanic
Minions? Even with the best minions they take ages to kill things.
Yeah, but it can't be argued that it's a safe way to deal damage while spamming the Rod of Discord to completely avoid damage.

I guess it's a boring way to do things, but still kind-of a valid gripe?
 

neoselket

Ice Queen
i don't think any item should have that low of a droprate. key molds, slime staff, and ROD are very difficult to get in a normal playthrough. it's hard to balance somehting that takes days, sometimes weeks to get. regardless of if the rod is changed, i think the drop rate should be WAY higher.
 

DJFlare84

Mechanic
i don't think any item should have that low of a droprate. key molds, slime staff, and ROD are very difficult to get in a normal playthrough. it's hard to balance somehting that takes days, sometimes weeks to get. regardless of if the rod is changed, i think the drop rate should be WAY higher.
If the drop rate wasn't so goddamn low I'd be much less annoyed with the nerf. Hell, I might even be fine with it.

But it wasn't. And I bled sweat, and cried blood, etcetera, etcetera...
 

DestroyerArcher

The Destroyer
Yeah, but it can't be argued that it's a safe way to deal damage while spamming the Rod of Discord to completely avoid damage.

I guess it's a boring way to do things, but still kind-of a valid gripe?
Then make a new debuff that despawns your minions or makes the RoD unusable for 10 seconds if you have an active minion.
 

Diablonar

Terrarian
If the drop rate wasn't so goddamn low I'd be much less annoyed with the nerf. Hell, I might even be fine with it.

But it wasn't. And I bled sweat, and cried blood, etcetera, etcetera...
I'd rather sweat a little and get a usable RoD, than sweat none at all and have a piece of :red: in my hands. Make me deserve teleport powers and give me them. Drop rates and luck aren't the way to go about that.

Then make a new debuff that despawns your minions or makes the RoD unusable for 10 seconds if you have an active minion.
If you start balancing individual class types like that, you're gonna have an unbalanced game, along with the fact that if you do this for all classes, you risk having to once again amend this later on when new features are introduced.

I recommend one of my suggested debuffs for the old nerfed RoD. Making all weapons disabled for 2 seconds is enough to allow people to teleport like crazy fun, but not cheese enemies.
Albeit it'd be cool to be able to attack, teleport, attack.. we could have an overload of sorts to do that.

Chaos Overload is fine, but I prefer to have an unnerfed RoD later on in the game like in my boss idea. If you've truly overcome the hardest hindrances, there's no reason to deny you the RoD. If you've proven you're top tier, you'd have beaten the boss anyway and nobody can complain that the RoD makes it easy; because it was already way harder to obtain it.

Nerf it for PvP, or simply, as I recommend, don't enforce it. Two players can play that game. Just make an option in server configs that let you choose between Allowing, Nerfing and Disabling the True RoD, one for PvP, one during boss events, and one for any usage at all.

It can be done simply too. Allow 3 digits: 0 meaning disabled, 1 meaning nerfed, 2 meaning allowed unnerfed.
First digit is overall and disables the rest. Second digit is bosses, third digit is PvP.

"AllowRoD": 2, 1, 1
means unnerfed normally and nerfed for both bosses and during PvP state.

I'd very much like to be able to roleplay one of those mages in the dungeon. I also dislike the fact that Necromancers are nerfed to teleport less in Expert Mode. They could be nerfed in Normal, but please let Experts do what Experts do ;) It's not like they were hard to kill before. They don't teleport half as much as the boss I suggested.

Also, lemme add another point. I hope that Relogic does not think the Portal Gun is the answer to the RoD nerf. It is the worst implementation of a weapon I have seen, and it is not practically usable in any scenario that I've come across.
I could easily elaborate on why.
 

DJFlare84

Mechanic
I'd rather sweat a little and get a usable RoD, than sweat none at all and have a piece of :red: in my hands. Make me deserve teleport powers and give me them. Drop rates and luck aren't the way to go about that.
And yet Drop Rates and Luck are just about how they seem to intend to do things. 8/

I recommend one of my suggested debuffs for the old nerfed RoD. Making all weapons disabled for 2 seconds is enough to allow people to teleport like crazy fun, but not cheese enemies.
Sounds nice, but it still wouldn't fix Minion abuse.

Chaos Overload is fine, but I prefer to have an unnerfed RoD later on in the game like in my boss idea. If you've truly overcome the hardest hindrances, there's no reason to deny you the RoD. If you've proven you're top tier, you'd have beaten the boss anyway and nobody can complain that the RoD makes it easy; because it was already way harder to obtain it.
Yeah. Chaos Overload could be for the current RoD, and then an endgame version of it with no limitations.
 

Diablonar

Terrarian
Sounds nice, but it still wouldn't fix Minion abuse.
Minions have the trait that they follow you wherever you go. If you teleport away, your minions will follow and stop attacking.
Even if you manage not to teleport that far, we could just make it so minions stopped attacking as well during those 2 seconds. Etc. Solutions are plenty.
 
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