Game Mechanics The issue with "vanity"

[Aceplante]

having a free row of storage for equipables doesn’t really add much considering that the player has around 210 inventory slots with portable storage anyway and 10 extra slots barely puts a dent in that.

Considering that these items are purely cosmetic, and add an incredible amount appeal to the game, yes, it is an atrocious suggestion. Having 10 more inventory slots means nothing when you have up to 210 inventory slots from all of your personal storage containers, which you can bring anywhere with you and access at essentially any time: the 10 slots you are referencing is less than 5% of your total portable storage: if extra storage in vanity slots is your criticism, it is comically shortsighted and you have a lot to learn about how this game works.

Its not about the amount/space. Its that you have an extra row there where you can freely store extra armor and accessories and therefore dont need to have them in your actual inventory, and that it covers your real items. It is too convenient. This applies to both of your comments.

Hiding your true gear also has very, very little effect on PvP. Most armors simply don't have enough of an effect to warrant immediate attention and counterplay, and if they do, it will be instantly apparent regardless of what the player wears on vanity: see Dapling's response for examples.

This is something I have seen a few people notice, but I would still like some way to know what their actual gear is. Back to the original suggestion, this could either be done as a client side toggle, or an in game item. Both of which you all are welcome to not use if you want.

Either way, PvP is an incredibly broken, unbalanced mess of a "gamemode" (for reasons that aren't this one, mind you), and this "fix" does absolutely nothing to change that. It sacrifices (and I cannot state this enough) a gargantuan positive aspect of the game to shore up an extremely small inconvenience for one of what is already one of the worst parts of this game for an uncountable amount of reasons.

Feel free to wear whatever armor and vanity you want instead. I'm saying it should not be over and in addition to.

You haven't responded to half of the criticisms directed towards your idea in this thread; perhaps you just didn't see them, perhaps you ignored them; regardless, it appears (at least to me) that you aren't willing to engage with them; a dire blow to the integrity of this suggestion considering how directly they prove your points wrong. To me, it appears that stirring up conflict is exactly what this post is trying do.

Check reply #18, in which I did. What else specifically are you saying I "ignored"/"wasnt willing to engage with"?

 

[Dapling]

Its not about the amount/space. Its that you have an extra row there where you can freely store extra armor and accessories and therefore dont need to have them in your actual inventory, and that it covers your real items. It is too convenient. This applies to both of your comments.

So if they removed vanity slots and added +10 base inventory slots as compensation, you would be okay with it?

 

[Rusty_122]

This suggestion is fire
Put it out

 

[Aceplante]

So if they removed vanity slots and added +10 base inventory slots as compensation, you would be okay with it?

Actually, yes. I would. Then it would feel like you're taking them out of your inventory to equip and use, rather than having them there, equipped... but only giving you a bonus if they're in the right slot and suddenly not working if they're in the left, but you can swap them back and forth anytime. It would also solve the vanity covering up your real armor issue.

 

[thisisabadname]

I am now sure that you are a troll.

 

[Dapling]

Actually, yes. I would. Then it would feel like you're taking them out of your inventory to equip and use, rather than having them there, equipped... but only giving you a bonus if they're in the right slot and suddenly not working if they're in the left.

So you're arguing that slots which can only hold items under certain conditions... are more convenient than having slots which work universally?

This is something I have seen a few people notice, but I would still like some way to know what their actual gear is.

Why do you need to know that? This has the same energy as randomly frisking someone on the sidewalk.
Jokes aside, if you have indeed read my post which explains why this is not a problem in pvp, then why exactly is this a problem?

 

[Coleyohley]

Its not about the amount/space. Its that you have an extra row there where you can freely store extra armor and accessories and therefore dont need to have them in your actual inventory, and that it covers your real items. It is too convenient. This applies to both of your comments.

You can quickly swap in armor by right-clicking it from your inventory. Swapping from vanity isn't allowing you to do anything you couldn't already, which means we are back to it just being 10 more inventory slots, which you are apparently okay with.

This is something I have seen a few people notice, but I would still like some way to know what their actual gear is. Back to the original suggestion, this could either be done as a client side toggle, or an in game item. Both of which you all are welcome to not use if you want.

I'm actually onboard with an accessory or a setting that allows you to see the true gear of other players; what I have an issue with is that you said that, ideally, the entire concept of vanity should not exist; That is your endgame, should you be allowed to have your way; you said as much yourself, and I am arguing against that fundamental idea.

Feel free to wear whatever armor and vanity you want instead. I'm saying it should not be over and in addition to.

Why not? Why shouldn't I be able to cover an ugly- armor that I enjoy the effects of with things that I actually want to look at? I really like the effects of Beetle Armor, but I cannot stand to look at it; Do you think I should be punished with hating how my character looks because I want to wear a useful armor?

"Simply wear the armor you want to see on your character" is not self-expression: it is sacrificing gameplay utility and power to look nice.

Check reply #18, in which I did. What else specifically are you saying I "ignored"/"wasnt willing to engage with"?

You simply said you disagreed, which is a poor counterargument (in fact, it is not a counterargument). You're welcome to disagree, but you're going to need to heavily support it when you make a suggestion this controversial. (EDIT: It appears you did provide a counterargument, but it has been since refuted.)
- You have ignored Dapling every time he has mentioned ways to detect these armors, as well as ignoring his point that most armors don't require immediate counterplay.
- You have ignored Heath04, Depressed Snow Grouse, and CannedPotato all asking for situations where being able to see the armor would make a significant change in how you fight them.
- You have ignored both me and Dapling mentioning that PvP is broken beyond belief, and that showing what armor the enemies wear is the least of its problems, a problem you say is ideally solved by removing the concept of player character expression.

 

[FalloutGuy645]

You’re entitled to your own opinion, that’s ofc fine. If you think the game is better with no vanity, so be it. But could you admit that adding it would make most people upset? And surely, adding it would hurt Terraria overall because of a overwhelmingly amount of people who would disagree with this suggestion. Surely, that needs to be put into consideration.

 

[thisisabadname]

If the devs for some reason want to do this, please just disable vanity slots only when pvp is turned on (you can turn it off or on with a button)

 

[Streyll]

It is too convenient.

I have seen you argue this a few times, and so may I ask, why is it that you see this as a bad thing?

Actually, yes. I would. Then it would feel like you're taking them out of your inventory to equip and use, rather than having them there, equipped... but only giving you a bonus if they're in the right slot and suddenly not working if they're in the left, but you can swap them back and forth anytime.

I cannot at all understand this argument. To me, there is little difference between having slots which magically determine whether your armour works or does not, and the fact that the inventory in general allows you to carry an entire house in your back pocket.

unfairly hide your true armor, which maybe is okay in singleplayer since the only player you're harming is yourself,

How is this in any way harmful to the end user? You are aware of the armour you are using, it's more than likely no one else will even ever see your player character, certainly the game does not care. I cannot think of any way in which vanity armour could ever be harmful, and there is no rule stating you must use it either, you could simply never use it.

 

[HammerHoovy🌳]

If the devs for some reason want to do this, please just disable vanity slots only when pvp is turned on (you can turn it off or on with a button)

Re-Logic would never do this. This suggestion is so bad that no one could take it seriously.

 

[Warm Water]

does literally anyone even pvp

it doesn't matter that pvp is slightly worse with this, when the entire rest of the game is far more fun qol wise with the extra slots

 

[Big Sammich]

I fail to see the issue here. The opponent being able to see what armor you're using barely matters at all. And even if it did matter, it absolutely cannot be called unbalanced, because all players can do it equally and just about everyone will be doing it. Besides, if you're in a PvP situation, you can just agree to reveal your armor to your opponent before you start. No support; this is attempting to solve a problem that does not exist.

 

[Unit One]

Hi all, I wanted to remind everyone of something stated in the Important - Game Suggestions: Rules & Guidelines

“A truly "bad' suggestion requires no hate or vehement argument for why it doesn't belong in the game. The developers are smart enough to make the distinction between what does and does not belong in Terraria. In addition, posting in the threads of unsalvageable suggestions accomplishes nothing more than keeping the thread active and drawing more attention to it.​

​

Support, contribute, and 'like' the "good" suggestions, provide constructive criticism to the suggestions that need improvement, and ignore all the "bad" suggestions.”​

Your takeaway should be this… Do you like/love the suggestion? Reply and list out what you like to show your support. Do you kinda like a suggestion, but think it has some problems? Reply, and give constructive criticism to help make the suggestion better. Do you not like the suggestion, and don’t think it should be added? Then why are you making the thread more popular and giving it exposure? Do not reply. Ignore it. You shouldn’t be replying to say that you don’t support the idea. Show your non-support by NOT replying.

Our Criticism Guidelines and the more detailed Expectations post.

This suggestion is fire
Put it out

I am now sure that you are a troll.

Re-Logic would never do this. This suggestion is so bad that no one could take it seriously.

@Rusty_122 @thisisabadname @HammerHoovy🌳 These are not acceptable replies for a suggestion. Rude and dismissive posts have no place in our forum. Please keep this in mind if you decide to post again.

@thisisabadname as you’ve been told this multiple times before, there will be additional action taken against your account. I will follow up with you in a private message later.

 

[FalloutGuy645]

@Unit One i was thinking about giving you a pm, but I think this could be appropriate for everyone in the chain to see. In the way I am perceiving the rules, it seems that constructive criticism should be discouraged for “bad” suggestions and to simply ignore it no matter what. Am I reading this right?

“Support, contribute, and 'like' the "good" suggestions, provide constructive criticism to the suggestions that need improvement, and ignore all the "bad" suggestions.”

Is constructive criticism not allowed for “bad” suggestions?

 

[RabidBirthday]

if my character's supposed to look a certain way, i want to be in a game where i'm playing an actual character. limiting how characters can look in a game without a real defined mc would just... kind of suck for no reason? i'm playing yakuza 8 and persona 4 right now and limiting cosmetics in those games makes total sense because Yu and Ichiban are whole characters. they're not entirely an empty space for you to project onto. they have their own predetermined dialogue, you don't pick their skin/hair/eye/clothing colors, and they're a character in their own right. the player character in terraria is the opposite: an unnamed player character who can be just you or whatever other character you want. plus it would make choosing your hair and clothing color at the start of the game kinda pointless lol since you get wood armor like instantly

 

[Baconfry]

I never got the impression that this was a bad-faith suggestion, but it does go against some design decisions that were made in the base game. Many people can remember that when vanity accessory slots were made to work only with those with a visible effect, this change was immensely unpopular and its reversal was met with great celebration. I can confidently say that they will never change it back.

Vanity accessory slots offer more than just storage; they also allow you to customize your loadout on-the-fly. As an example, even on a loadout where I'm using 5/7 of my vanity accessory slots for actual vanity, I still have a one-click switch between Star Veil/Insignia (facetanking vs. dodging) and Flesh Knuckles/Shiny Stone (combat vs. out-of-combat regen). I don't know if this is a commonly-cited reason for disliking the vanity accessory change, but it was important for me.

I can sort of see the argument to how vanity might be an issue in PvP, but remember that PvP is a consensual activity. Just ask the other person what armor they're using. You can't have a PvP match to begin with unless both parties agree not to use Zenith or like 95% of endgame weapons. I agree with everyone in the thread who said that PvP is terrible right now, but it was actually fun in version 1.1 when the game wasn't flooded with wall-piercing weapons that covered half the screen. Ah, back when you could just log into ATSP or 2Dforts and turn PvP on and start blasting. Fun times. Also, there was vanity in that version and most people used it. Though I guess it didn't matter too much because you knew that they were wearing Hallowed armor anyways. (I could be wrong but I don't think anyone was clever enough to use the theoretically optimal pure damage no crit armor combo back then)

As for what to do with this suggestion, I think the option to toggle vanity on other players would be perfectly harmless. It would be faster than asking, at least. I don't agree with tying it to an accessory, since every accessory slot counts when you're in PvP. And yeah, I think it should be next to the PvP buttons and not the top-left section of the screen which is pretty cluttered already.

 

[Aceplante]

So you're arguing that slots which can only hold items under certain conditions... are more convenient than having slots which work universally?

Yes, becuase they're directly to the left of your equipment slots. Also, by being down there, it implies that they too are equipped, but for some reason not giving bonuses if they're in the left column instead of the right?

You can quickly swap in armor by right-clicking it from your inventory. Swapping from vanity isn't allowing you to do anything you couldn't already, which means we are back to it just being 10 more inventory slots, which you are apparently okay with.

But this way, it feels like you're taking it from your inventory and actually equipping them, rather than having them already equipped in slots that dont work?

I'm actually onboard with an accessory or a setting that allows you to see the true gear of other players; what I have an issue with is that you said that, ideally, the entire concept of vanity should not exist; That is your endgame, should you be allowed to have your way; you said as much yourself, and I am arguing against that fundamental idea.

Fair enough, but in response to the second half, read on:

You’re entitled to your own opinion, that’s ofc fine. If you think the game is better with no vanity, so be it. But could you admit that adding it would make most people upset? And surely, adding it would hurt Terraria overall because of a overwhelmingly amount of people who would disagree with this suggestion. Surely, that needs to be put into consideration.

Now this I agree with. Yes, I already knew ahead of time it would be unpopular, hence why I mentioned it may be too late to remove, so an option or "truesight" item would solve this issue for me while not removing this functionality for the players that want it. I, as mentioned, personally dont support it, but I suppose that shouldnt affect everyone else who does. Therefore, this would be a good compromise.

If the devs for some reason want to do this, please just disable vanity slots only when pvp is turned on (you can turn it off or on with a button)

Another good suggestion. Thats actually perfect! There is that button for pvp, so that could work...

You simply said you disagreed, which is a poor counterargument (in fact, it is not a counterargument). You're welcome to disagree, but you're going to need to heavily support it when you make a suggestion this controversial. (EDIT: It appears you did provide a counterargument, but it has been since refuted.)
- You have ignored Dapling every time he has mentioned ways to detect these armors, as well as ignoring his point that most armors don't require immediate counterplay.
- You have ignored Heath04, Depressed Snow Grouse, and CannedPotato all asking for situations where being able to see the armor would make a significant change in how you fight them.
- You have ignored both me and Dapling mentioning that PvP is broken beyond belief, and that showing what armor the enemies wear is the least of its problems, a problem you say is ideally solved by removing the concept of player character expression.

I think the simple fact of being able to hide your armor at all is an issue, even if it may not make much of a difference. That applies to both of the first two. As for the third, that pvp is already broken, is that any reason to ignore this issue? Again, I am aware people use it for character expression and that it is therefore too late to remove, but I still think a way to couter it is neccessary, such as a client side toggle, or perhaps in game item.

 

[Aceplante]

@Unit One i was thinking about giving you a pm, but I think this could be appropriate for everyone in the chain to see. In the way I am perceiving the rules, it seems that constructive criticism should be discouraged for “bad” suggestions and to simply ignore it no matter what. Am I reading this right?

“Support, contribute, and 'like' the "good" suggestions, provide constructive criticism to the suggestions that need improvement, and ignore all the "bad" suggestions.”

Is constructive criticism not allowed for “bad” suggestions?

(I would assume) Constructive criticism is fine, but the linked comments were not that. They were unnecessary and needless hate, not contributing anything to the thread.

 

[Rusty_122]

Hi all, I wanted to remind everyone of something stated in the Important - Game Suggestions: Rules & Guidelines

“A truly "bad' suggestion requires no hate or vehement argument for why it doesn't belong in the game. The developers are smart enough to make the distinction between what does and does not belong in Terraria. In addition, posting in the threads of unsalvageable suggestions accomplishes nothing more than keeping the thread active and drawing more attention to it.​

​

Support, contribute, and 'like' the "good" suggestions, provide constructive criticism to the suggestions that need improvement, and ignore all the "bad" suggestions.”​

Your takeaway should be this… Do you like/love the suggestion? Reply and list out what you like to show your support. Do you kinda like a suggestion, but think it has some problems? Reply, and give constructive criticism to help make the suggestion better. Do you not like the suggestion, and don’t think it should be added? Then why are you making the thread more popular and giving it exposure? Do not reply. Ignore it. You shouldn’t be replying to say that you don’t support the idea. Show your non-support by NOT replying.

Our Criticism Guidelines and the more detailed Expectations post.





@Rusty_122 @thisisabadname @HammerHoovy🌳 These are not acceptable replies for a suggestion. Rude and dismissive posts have no place in our forum. Please keep this in mind if you decide to post again.

@thisisabadname as you’ve been told this multiple times before, there will be additional action taken against your account. I will follow up with you in a private message later.

Fair enough. I do think this is a troll post though, feels weird to go after that guy for saying it.