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tModLoader Calamity Mod

Discussion in 'Released' started by MountainDrew, May 27, 2016.

?

What would you like me to create more of?

  1. NPCs (enemies, house NPCs, etc.)

    835 vote(s)
    21.1%
  2. Bosses

    1,516 vote(s)
    38.2%
  3. Items (Accessories, Weapons, etc.)

    1,078 vote(s)
    27.2%
  4. Vanity (furniture, armor sets, etc.)

    295 vote(s)
    7.4%
  5. Mineable Stuff (Ores, Blocks, etc.)

    242 vote(s)
    6.1%
  1. Cyrille

    Cyrille Terrarian

    Haven't played terraria/this mod in a while, seems I missed quite a bit - sorta confused about the new Rogue damage type though, is it just a renamed Thrown or do vanilla bonuses to Thrown not work on it? Do Rogue bonuses work on vanilla/mod Thrown weapons? Sorry if these are really dumb questions, the wiki explains what thrown is but not really how it interacts with vanilla/other mod content.
     
    charlee and ARTEZUI like this.
  2. ARTEZUI

    ARTEZUI Skeletron Prime

    Rogue, from what we know and have seen so far, is a modification of thrown. It is, however, a different damage type altogether. Thrown damage buffs do not apply to it, and vice versa.

    Fabsol intends on expanding on this and providing us with more information in the future, but currently they are unable to do so for us at the time.
     
    charlee, IDGCaptainRussia and Cyrille like this.
  3. Cyrille

    Cyrille Terrarian

    Oof... that's unfortunate. So much for doing a thrown playthrough right now haha. I'll do another class and hope Rogue eventually gets Thrown compatibility or reverted, then, 'cuz that really hurts Thorium/Spirit and leveling mod compatibility. Thank you for letting me know, especially so quickly!
     
    charlee likes this.
  4. Flamingo

    Flamingo Terrarian

    A reversion does not appear likely. Noting that it came out with a "leveling" feature, the most likely reason for the change from "throwing" to "rogue" is that throwing damage is programmed unusually in the base game, and Fabsol wanted the player to level up in accordance with the damage type they were using at the time. There's also some ominous promise of more to come, but with no details forthcoming because "they might get someone fired".

    There are a few other "leveling" mods out there, and most of them get around the technical issue by having the player gain generalized experience, which they can choose to invest in some way or another. Why Calamity needs to overlap with those mods and integrate its own similar mechanics as a mandatory part of the mod package is beyond me.

    In short, Calamity will probably be incompatible with all other throwing mods from this point forward, and will likely alter all vanilla equipment to make it similarly incompatible.
     
    charlee and Cyrille like this.
  5. Flamingo

    Flamingo Terrarian

    I think this segment is an edit, so I missed it earlier.

    Personally, I think an important factor to good boss design is the understanding that the player is always going to be the most powerful thing in the game. If you design a "Devourer of Gods", then the implication is that
    Player > DoG > God
    Or in other words, the player is essentially two steps above a god by the time he fights DoG. The point isn't to make DoG feel powerful, the point is to make the player feel powerful. If the boss is a decent challenge, then the fulfillment of having overcome that challenge makes the player feel good at the game and more "powerful" in a real world sense.

    The big problem with DoG, Calamitas, and Yharon is that it feels like Fabsol is focused primarily on trying to make the bosses feel stronger than the player even though, by design, they're intended to be defeated. In my opinion, the fact that Yharon talks down to you for defeating him and forces you to fight him twice is just a disgusting misunderstanding of the relationship between the player and the game. Calamitas also talks down to you if you beat it, acting as though the player had to cheat to win but still trying to represent Calamitas as this ancient evil worthy of respecting.

    Based on the other post-Moonlord bosses, I suspect that Fabsol is going to proceed with the same mentality and make his other super bosses be condescending and spongey. In a relative sense, I dislike post-Moonlord progression in Calamity because I think the player gets weaker instead of stronger. He finds himself with fewer tools, and the boss fights are longer without really becoming mechanically more engaging in the context of Terraria's normal gameplay.
     
    Sid_Sorrow, charlee and Cyrille like this.
  6. Technotoad64

    Technotoad64 Skeletron

    Oh, and they might also
    • Become immune to damage if it exceeds a cap
      • (no fun, but understandable--as long as the cap isn't so low that it's reachable with that same mod's weapons and bonuses)
    • Either be so fast that you have to run away constantly in a straight line
      • (though this can be avoided if it has a turning radius that lets you go toreador on it, which is way cooler)
    • Trap you in an arena so you can't run away
    • Summon a previous boss
      • (kinda pointlessly drags the fight on, imo--if you're fighting the boss in the first place, you've already proven you can beat the previous ones, making this kinda filler)
    • Be invulnerable until you get rid of enough minions
      • (can be fun (Celestial Pillars) or just aggravating (Tremor's Fungus Beetle), depending on execution)
    • Have a timer that instantly kills you if you take too long to finish the fight
      • (basically a dps floor; might be discouraging for certain builds (Thorium's Expert Mode Ragnarok as Cleric), though it can be an easy way to build suspense)
    • Instakill you if you're not taking enough damage per hit
      • (same as the dps cap, this is understandable as long as it isn't accidentally doable with the mod's own stuff)
    And, hey. If we're lucky, maybe some of the more annoying trends will fall out of favor and certain fights will become a lot more fun! After all, they did remove SCal's hit counter and DoG's (absolute) immunity on body hits.
     
    charlee, Cyrille and ARTEZUI like this.
  7. Technotoad64

    Technotoad64 Skeletron

    Well, you have beaten the Slime "God" pre-Hardmode, Astrum "Deus" pre-Moon Lord, and most recently Providence, the Profaned "Goddess". I think it just means that being a "god" in this setting isn't a very big title.

    Amen! For me, knowing that beating the boss has to be possible kind of makes it feel like the game is pointlessly gloating, but for some people, making the big-bad-evil-guy seem impossible to beat builds excitement because it's like a personal challenge, like, "Oh, he's been holding back this whole time? I can't wait to see his real form!"

    I guess the idea is that he was just toying with you before, and got bored and left after you hit him enough times. Only after beating a buffed Mothron (why Mothron? no idea) does he think maybe he should actually try to stop you. And, you know, some people are into that, like, "now I've shown you that I'm a real threat, haha!"

    I guess the idea is that... well, she's just a crazy :red:...

    Yeah, I'm getting kinda tired of the "nuthin personell, KID" stuff, too. It would be refreshing to have one of the bosses give dialogue that's less cocky and overconfident, since, again, we all know you're beatable, Mr/s. Big-Bad!

    That might be an inevitable problem of extending a game's play-time so far past where it was originally meant to be over, you kinda run out of stuff to work with. New ore spawns, biomes, or events would help with that, but Calamity's main emphasis is and will probably always be on the chain of bosses, meaning that that's the only post-ML stuff that's likely to get added. I think it would be pretty cool if, for example, the Abyss didn't generate until after beating a post-ML boss. Or maybe if you had to beat SCal to make a new ore generate in hell. Things along the lines of Uelibloom and Exodium, though Exodium doesn't have anything but a single weapon and a few accessories to its credit yet.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
    charlee, ARTEZUI and Cyrille like this.
  8. Cyrille

    Cyrille Terrarian

    Oh... is that true? I tend to use a lot of mods so compatibility is really important to me. Already dislike the other unnecessary and unwanted vanilla changes Calamity makes enough, I don't want to drop the mod but I want throwing damage not rogue haha.
     
    charlee likes this.
  9. Flamingo

    Flamingo Terrarian

    I'm in the same boat. For all the things I do like about Calamity, it feels like there's getting to be more and more non-negotiable aspects of the package that I really don't like or that I already have. Unnecessary restrictions to vanilla equipment is a very good example, because if I didn't want to play with certain items then I wouldn't use them. I almost never bother looking for a Daedalus Stormbow, for example, because at this point I can beat the Destroyer without even building an arena, but it annoys me that it's not a nice little ace in the hole if I happened to stumble across it. Likewise, what's with the nerfs to the Reaver Shark? Or the Vampire Knives? Or to summoning as a whole?

    When did I ever say to myself, "You know what, summoner class is just TOO GOOD, I want a mod that makes them do zero damage, but still eats up the max number of damage frames." Summoner class is awful, and the ability to use it in conjunction with a restrictive set of non-competing weapon types did not demand an overhaul of a destructive nature.

    Personally, I keep some older versions of Calamity and rollback to previous versions when I feel like a new version didn't add enough to make up for what it took away.

    I disagree. Let's suppose that Cryogen was a post-Moonlord boss, but with damage and health scaled to be competitive with Moonlord gear. Would that really be so bad? It's a boss fight I really like in Calamity. It's creative, it goes through a variety of interesting cycles in a fairly swift-paced fight, it throws projectiles at me but enough that I can still make sense of it, and the closest thing to "invulnerability" is a shield that I can actively attack and damage.

    Just because the boss comes after Moonlord doesn't mean that it needs to give the player whiplash. There's not some rule that says there has to be a sensory overload, or that the whole screen needs to be tinted bright colors. In fact I think losing my cursor in the Moonlord's projectiles was always the worst thing about the Moonlord.
     
    charlee, Technotoad64 and Cyrille like this.
  10. Cyrille

    Cyrille Terrarian

    Wait, what did Calamity do to summoning? I was familiar with the other mentioned changes (and generally dislike them - tho the buffs to some underused weapons are cool) but hadn't seen anything about summoning getting rekt.
     
  11. Flamingo

    Flamingo Terrarian

    I think this is reverted now - or in the process of being reverted - but for a while summons were changed to deal close to zero damage if you held another weapon type. This restriction may have only been when playing in one of the many, many alternative difficulty modes (I think Revengence), but I'm not sure anymore. It affects a game mode I often play Calamity in, at any rate.

    But it struck me as odd from square one because if you're not careful, summons were already capable of lowering your DPS. I think the change was to enforce a "pure summoner" approach to summoning, but it doesn't work because summon AI is too dumb.
     
    charlee, IDGCaptainRussia and Cyrille like this.
  12. IDGCaptainRussia

    IDGCaptainRussia Skeletron

    Oh god I forgot about that change, I hope that did get reverted.

    Summons were often not fast enough/too derpy to be the only source of damage and often enough, they would get randomly unsummoned (ususally from having too many buffs) which made the class unplayable.

    One thing I know Calamity does do is it updates your summons with your current damage boosts to summon damage, this way you can't just "summon minions with high damage accessories, and the and then switch over to ones with more defense that don't decrease minion count"
    Here's all the changes to the base game: https://calamitymod.gamepedia.com/Vanilla_changes at the very least Calamity's wiki is kept consistently updated.
     
    LolbitShowStarter and Cyrille like this.
  13. Technotoad64

    Technotoad64 Skeletron

    An easy fix would be to just have the mod as
    • Calamity Mod
    • Calamity Music
    • Calamity Vanilla Rebalance
    So that you can choose whether you have the vanilla changes or not. The mod is already split into multiple downloads, so I don't see any reason not to do it at this point. The Rebalance part of the mod could include the Planetoids, since they expand the world's size, which isn't desirable for people running other mods alongside Calamity, and there's extremely little Calamity-related content associated with them. The boss health bar and class proficiency system could also be part of it, since there's already standalone mods that do that.
     
    charlee and Cyrille like this.
  14. ToMuchTNT

    ToMuchTNT Terrarian

    Alot of the bosses teleport onto you and follow you whatever you do... its really unfair and not fun. :red: mod
     
  15. Cyrille

    Cyrille Terrarian

    @Flamingo @IDGCaptainRussia
    • In Revengeance Mode, all attacks labelled as summon will do much less damage if the player is holding a weapon belonging to a different class. This damage decrease scales as the player progresses (10% in Pre-Hardmode, 33% in Hardmode and 66% Post-Moon Lord). However, if the player is using a summon weapon damage is increased by 10% until Moon Lord has been defeated."
    Source: bottom of this page https://calamitymod.gamepedia.com/Minions

    Finally found it, doesn't say it's been changed but could be out of date idk. I don't play Revengeance for an endless number of reasons so I had never noticed it.

    @Technotoad64 that would be nice, ideally even more split up into multiple mods so people who like say, planetoids but don't care for the chlorophyte bullet nerfs can customize their play a bit. I already use far more interesting leveling systems and don't really want or need Calamity's boring version adding some random damage, and the altered damage reduction mechanics and melee attackspeed caps are cosmically stupid.

    Would be REALLY nice if the Rogue crap just got reverted to Throwing until there was ANY meaningful reason to exist, as-is it just ensures that despite using the mod for ~2 years I'll uninstall it, probably permanently, when I next decide to do a Throwing class playthrough. It's just been going steadily downhill as it tries to wrest control of people's gameplay and options from them, and I'm losing hope in any positive change at this point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  16. NokoNation

    NokoNation Terrarian

    Would it be possible to make it to where bosses behave differently when multiple players are in the game, and is it possible to have Perennial Ore spread like Chlorophyte ore?
     
  17. IDGCaptainRussia

    IDGCaptainRussia Skeletron

    Wait I got it!

    Maybe you have to fight a massively buffed DD2 event before you refight Yharon. It would make sense to fight a jungle dragon you'd first need to "prove your might" against another, though lesser dragon.

    Still trying to see if there's a way to tie DD2 stuff into Calamity since Betsy gets no love here :(
     
  18. Palladium Mask

    Palladium Mask Terrarian

    Idk if bug report can be done here but I will do it anyways

    So, I was playing the game normaly and a goblin invasion started. In the middle of it however I found out I had 2 Fungal Clumps instead of one even tho I was using only one Fungal Clump in my accessories. After the gobling army was defeated they just kind of stacked up one another due to their same moviment. Did a bit of research but I didn't found anything about two Fungal Clumps.

    If anyone wants to recreate my situation, that's everything I did before noticing this:

    -Died to the Slime God
    -Closed the game
    -Open it after about 15 minutes
    -Summoned and defeated 4 EoC at the same time (using Fargo spawners)
    -Goblin Army spawned naturaly

    If you want more info or a image just say
     
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  19. dmakhno

    dmakhno Terrarian

    I cannot find Level Meter:
    - Goblin tinker doesn't seel it
    - Cheet sheet (I supposed to find it in list) doesn't show it

    Calamity version: 1.4.0.2
    https://calamitymod.gamepedia.com/Proficiency doesn't say minimum version or how to turn this on. I never had Proficiency message.

    How do I turn the Proficiency on?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  20. Phupperbat

    Phupperbat Terrarian

    Update Calamity.
     
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