Game Mechanics Changes and Buffs to DoT Debuffs

[SzGamer227]

This is just a new rearrangement of the amount of DPS that various damage-over-time debuffs deal. I invented it in about 5 seconds, so it essentially came straight out of my crapper, but it doesn't seem to have anything wrong with it that I can see. It's all buffs for the most part, but it also gives different amounts of DPS when inflicted on players and enemies. Why? Because even 6 DPS is not getting you anywhere fast when enemies all have over 200 health in Hardmode.



Anyways, here it is:

Bleeding
Cancels healing.
2 DPS vs. enemies.
* This is so it can be used as a PvE debuff.

Spoiler: Items which might be able to inflict a PvE Bleeding Debuff:

These are what I've decided to be the best candidates:

Bloody Machete

Katana

Vilethorn

Ball O' Hurt

War Axe of the Night

The Rotted Fork

Blood Lust Cluster

The Meatball

Muramasa

Blue Mooon

Dao of Pow

Nettle Burst

Moon Charm (Werewolf Buff) - Melee attacks would inflict Bleeding.

Poisoned
2 DPS vs. player.
4 DPS vs. enemies.
* Same DPS vs player, but it's now more effective against enemies.

On Fire!
4 DPS vs. player.
6 DPS vs. enemy.
* Same DPS vs player, but it's now more effective against enemies.

Frostburn
5 DPS vs. player.
8 DPS vs. enemy.
* More effective against enemies. Less damaging vs player.

Cursed Inferno
5 DPS vs. player.
10 DPS vs. enemy.
* It really needs a major buff to put it on par with Ichor.

Venom
6 DPS vs. player.
12 DPS vs. enemy.
* This could also use a buff. 6 DPS is hardly useful since everything is immune to Venom. Same DPS vs player.


Possible Bonus Effects

A few possible extra effects inflicted on players who have these DoT debuffs.

Bleeding
-5% Melee and movement speed.

Poisoned
*Reduces base critical strike change to 0%.

On Fire!
+10% movement speed.
*Player speeds up faster and slows down more slowly.

Frostburn
-10% movement speed.
*Player speeds up more slowly and slows down faster.

Cursed Inferno
+10% movement speed.
*Player speeds up faster and slows down more slowly.

Venom
-5% damage.
*Reduces base critical strike change to 0%.

 

[FlakMaster]

I hope you don't mind Sz, but I've brought back this formula from the original thread, albeit a few balancing changes. Put simply. I think this is too small of a buff.

What if enemy health influenced how much damage DoT does? I was thinking, as a quick example, that a formula could be:

[x^4 + 30x] (x) is the additional DPS, whereas the summary of the formula is the minimum health required for the additional DPS to take place. So, to list out what it would mean:

Using the [x^4 + 30x] and using values 1 - 18 for (x).

31hp = +1 DPS
76hp = +2
171hp = +3
376hp = +4
775hp = +5
1506hp = +6
2611hp = +7
4336hp = +8
6831hp = +9
10300hp = +10
14971hp = +11
21096hp = +12
28951hp = +13
38836hp = +14 (The current highest health is Duke Fishron, with 50000 health.)
51075hp = +15
66016hp = +16 (The Destroyer is unaffected by DoT)
84031hp = +17
105516hp = +18

Now to make tiered DoT's differ from each other, additional DPS for poison would be [0.5x], On Fire! would simply be [1], FrostBurn would be [1.5], Cursed flames would be [2.5] and Venom would be [2]. Reason why cursed flames is better than Venom is because I want it to be a fierce competitor with Ichor, and green flames are cool.

Then we can use the simple formula of xy + z to get the total DPS of a DoT. (x) is the multiplier displayed for each DoT on the above paragraph, (y) is the additional DPS and (z) is the base DPS.

To bring in a few examples, I'll list out a pre-HM enemy (Demon @ 120 health), a pre-HM boss (Queen bee @ 3400) and a HM enemy (Giant tortoise @ 400) and boss (Duke Fishron @ 50000).

Demon: 5 DPS (poison), 8 DPS (fire) and 11 DPS (frostburn)
Queen bee: 7.5 DPS (poison), 13 DPS (fire) and 18.5 DPS (frost)
Giant tortoise: 6 DPS (poison), 10DPS (fire), 14 DPS (frost), 20 DPS (venom) and 20 DPS (cursed)
Duke Fishron: 11 DPS (poison), 20DPS (fire), 29 DPS (frost), 40 DPS (venom) and 45 DPS (cursed)

I find these values appropriate because they give the possibility of hit-and-run (not cheesy, it's a valid tactic) as well as maintaining a use against bosses, where DPS usually sky-rockets because of how much times you are hitting. The anomaly, however, would be venom vs cursed. I think their base DPS should be switched around (cursed has 12, venom has 10), because cursed flame is a unique thing in a world whereas all worlds have access to venom.

 

[SzGamer227]

We'll see what the devs decide, assuming they see this at all.

 

[Kefke]

I like the idea here. It's always bothered me that debuffs inflicted by the player don't do enough to really make a difference. I especially like the idea of bleeding actually having an effect on enemies. Though, the one fear there is that bleed weapons would be super-weak against mobs, but devastating in PVP.

 

[Ravvynfall]

we definitely need better use for DoT debuffs vs PVE, i support your general concept Sz

 

[stormconure]

That new bonus for On Fire sounds a lot like one of my suggestions for a new debuff called electrified... Anyway support for this, PvE needs more attention.

 

[4tehLolz]

I think that cursed flames should have even more power, like they could slow enemies or reduce their damage potential, making it an aggressive passive de buff as opposed to a passive aggressive debuff of ichor. I like the rebalance though, and especially the bleeding.

 

[neoselket]

i like this, especially the bleeding debuff. with weapons that inflict it, like tizona, it does nothing to enemies, because they dont regen health.

 

[Leinfors]

i like this, especially the bleeding debuff. with weapons that inflict it, like tizona, it does nothing to enemies, because they dont regen health.

Ironically, Tizona DOES inflict a unique Bleeding debuff that causes DoT.

In other words, 505 Games got it right for once, and took the liberty of making a Bleeding DoT debuff that does not exist on PC.

 

[neoselket]

Ironically, Tizona DOES inflict a unique Bleeding debuff that causes DoT.

In other words, 505 Games got it right for once, and took the liberty of making a Bleeding DoT debuff that does not exist on PC.

oh cool, i didn't know that.

 

[Kefke]

Ironically, Tizona DOES inflict a unique Bleeding debuff that causes DoT.

In other words, 505 Games got it right for once, and took the liberty of making a Bleeding DoT debuff that does not exist on PC.

Even a stopped clock? Nah, I kid. They've had a few good ideas here and there, like how at times the smart cursor actually works well. It's just all the recolours they had initially left a bad impression, and they've actually worked on respriting a lot of that.

But yeah, that was one instance where they did it right, in my opinion as well.

 

[Apollodorus]

I support this, I find it incredibly difficult as is to use Frost Armour effectively, and also the bleeding debuff being useless with PvE has always bothered me.

 

[SilverHexxitFights]

Already been over this thread, and love it, but I realized something that makes Bleeding's specialty irrelevant. All debuffs cancel life regeneration.

 

[SzGamer227]

Already been over this thread, and love it, but I realized something that makes Bleeding's specialty irrelevant. All debuffs cancel life regeneration.

That's why Bleeding is the least special and most boring debuff, and why it lasts the longest. The idea is just to have it deal damage against enemies.

 

[SilverHexxitFights]

That's why Bleeding is the least special and most boring debuff, and why it lasts the longest. The idea is just to have it deal damage against enemies.

What I mean is, in the OP, it states that Bleeding cancels healing while none of the other debuffs have that listed.

I also was thinking that maybe Corruption weapons could gain a little buff if they got Bleeding when Crimson did not (although Red has made it pretty clear he wants Crimson to be superior).

 

[SzGamer227]

What I mean is, in the OP, it states that Bleeding cancels healing while none of the other debuffs have that listed.

Anything that causes DoT fundamentally cancels HP regeneration, so stating the fact would be redundant.

I also was thinking that maybe Corruption weapons could gain a little buff if they got Bleeding when Crimson did not (although Red has made it pretty clear he wants Crimson to be superior).

That and Crimson equipment would make a heck of a lot more sense inflicting Bleeding anyways.

 

[SilverHexxitFights]

Anything that causes DoT fundamentally cancels HP regeneration, so stating the fact would be redundant.

What I'm talking about is, in the OP, it states that Bleeding cancels health regen even when it's redundant. Was that a mistake?

 

[Kefke]

What I'm talking about is, in the OP, it states that Bleeding cancels health regen even when it's redundant. Was that a mistake?

It's not necessarily redundant. There are multiple things that can boost regen speed. So, in theory, someone could accelerate their healing beyond the speed at which they lose health. Bleeding would cancel that out. At least, that is how I understand it.

 

[Niranufoti]

It's not necessarily redundant. There are multiple things that can boost regen speed. So, in theory, someone could accelerate their healing beyond the speed at which they lose health. Bleeding would cancel that out. At least, that is how I understand it.

Actually, no, that's what Silver is referencing: they don't say so, but the DoT debuffs, as they are now, reduce non-natural regeneration (e.g. Band of Regen, Celestial Stone, Regen potion etc.) to 0 before applying their reduction to that non-natural regeneration (that's how DoT debuffs deal their damage ─ they reduce your health regeneration to negative).
So, basically, Bleeding in itself is one of the weakest Debuffs in the game. I'm not sure if it disables natural regeneration too though, but even if it does, it won't make it much more powerful due to how short these debuffs usually last ─ while still in combat, you don't have time to build up natural regeneration anyways.

EDIT: Upon checking, I found out that apparently, Bleeding only cancels natural regeneration, and not non-natural regeneration. Also, it is possible to increase non-natural regeneration after it's been set to 0 by a DoT debuff, however, you can only get slightly more than required to balance out Poisoned (Honey and Heart Lantern).

 

[SzGamer227]

TL;DR version:
Against players, Bleeding does absolutely no damage to players outside of cancelling regeneration. I have to state that Bleeding cancels regeneration because that's all it does. No damage, just cancels your natural regen. (Enemies don't have natural regen, though, which is why Bleeding currently has no use against enemies in PC Terraria.)