Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

[prosans]

i think adding autofire was both good and bad if used wrongly like spamming diammit or and using a gun with out autofire

 

[J Bame]

True Excalibur needs a buff. Against a single target dummy, it deals almost the same DPS as Excalibur with the same armor set, accessories, and buffs.

This is normal. True Excalibur is obtained very very shortly after Excalibur it shouldn't be all that much stronger, the range and use time advantage it has are enough.

For comparison, Spectre+5 DPS accessories combined with Nightglow is ~3600 on average, oftentimes going over 4000 (~4800 max); with Stellar Tune, it constantly goes over 4000, sometimes reaching 5200 DPS.

Empress weapons are tiered for late post golem, right before Pillars. Every summon you compared it to was Post Plantera or even earlier. Test Xeno, Raven or Tempest Staff in this case.

Also it's generally better to use kill times as a metric for weapon performance instead of the DPS meter, there are a lot of variables (missed shots, damage variance/crits, player inconsistency) that even out over a full fight but can create inconsistent readings on the DPS meter.

 

[Lunar Eruption]

This is normal. True Excalibur is obtained very very shortly after Excalibur it shouldn't be all that much stronger, the range and use time advantage it has are enough.


Empress weapons are tiered for late post golem, right before Pillars. Every summon you compared it to was Post Plantera or even earlier. Test Xeno, Raven or Tempest Staff in this case.

Also it's generally better to use kill times as a metric for weapon performance instead of the DPS meter, there are a lot of variables (missed shots, damage variance/crits, player inconsistency) that even out over a full fight but can create inconsistent readings on the DPS meter.

I also tested Desert Tiger which is on the same tier. Its DPS is still lower than Stellar Tune or even Nightglow despite the use of whip stacking. Its performance is unstable as well. Please refer to my original post.

 

[darthmorf]

Honestly speaking, I do appreciate the devs trying to keep the game fresh and balanced and making sure that content is not too overpowered for wherever it is it appears in the game, and nerfing something if it's much too strong and buffing if it needs to be boosted.

i think adding autofire was both good and bad if used wrongly like spamming diammit or and using a gun with out autofire

Hi both,
While your feedback is appreciated, in this instance it's not particularly productive or relevant to the purpose of this thread; detailed discussion about specific balance changes. These kind of posts would probably be better suited for the launch thread: Terraria: Labor of Love is Out Now!

 

[Zallaraxium]

Hi both,
While your feedback is appreciated, in this instance it's not particularly productive or relevant to the purpose of this thread; detailed discussion about specific balance changes. These kind of posts would probably be better suited for the launch thread: Terraria: Labor of Love is Out Now!

Sorry I was just praising them, I meant no harm by my words, so I will humbly bow out of the thread and allow serious talk to happen.

 

[J Bame]

I also tested Desert Tiger which is on the same tier. Its DPS is still lower than Stellar Tune or even Nightglow despite the use of whip stacking. Its performance is unstable as well. Please refer to my original post.

It's not the same tier. Just because Empress can be summoned after plantera doesnt mean the drops were balanced for that tier. She was balanced for late game post golem. Desert Tiger is treated as a Post Plantera weapon.

 

[Blizzkit 🌳]

I realize this is extremely nitpicky and only marginally related to actual game balance, but I have to get this off my chest...

Why was the Pearlwood Sword buffed so much? I get that it's a technically a hardmode weapon, but being so much more powerful than other wooden swords is just weird and doesn't make sense from a world building perspective, if pearlwood really is that much stronger than other types of wood for whatever reason, then why wasn't the armor buffed accordingly as well?

Also, despite the huge buff, it's still essentially useless since it's still outclassed by late pre-hardmode swords, so even from a game balance standpoint the buff makes little sense, unless it was buffed specifically for challenge runs where you start in hardmode?

 

[J Bame]

I realize this is extremely nitpicky and only marginally related to actual game balance, but I have to get this off my chest...

Why was the Pearlwood Sword buffed so much? I get that it's a technically a hardmode weapon, but being so much more powerful than other wooden swords is just weird and doesn't make sense from a world building perspective, if pearlwood really is that much stronger than other types of wood for whatever reason, then why wasn't the armor buffed accordingly as well?

Also, despite the huge buff, it's still essentially useless since it's still outclassed by late pre-hardmode swords, so even from a game balance standpoint the buff makes little sense, unless it was buffed specifically for challenge runs where you start in hardmode?

Just about every sword got buffed may as well patch up Pearlwood sword now that we are at it. There isnt a lot more to say here

 

[Erinit🌳]

Not sure if this has been suggested, but make mining armor easier to get, as its a hassle to try and get normally and by the time you get it its been like 4 hours or your in hardmode.

 

[lorddamien]

I don't think removing dodge from the EoL fight is a positive change.

I 3000% agree with this, but we're screaming into the void at this point. I guess they *really* want to lock a lot of people out of the terraprisma, which is the real issue here. If this stupid no-hit thing awarded a bragging trophy instead of a useful weapon, no one would be complaining... sigh

 

[Leinfors]

True Excalibur needs a buff. Against a single target dummy, it deals almost the same DPS as Excalibur with the same armor set, accessories, and buffs.

I'm open to evaluation of True Excalibur, but this is the least favorable possible comparison. The weapon's range and area of effect is huge compared to Excalibur, that is the primary balancing factor here. If you want to make a compelling argument about its performance, please provide some discussion direction indicating that it actually under-performs against targets, and I'll be happy to evaluate further!

Also I feel that Summoners are overly nerfed in 1.4.4. Tried 5 DPS accessories with 3 whips (Kaleidoscope for damage, Dark Harvest+Durendal for speed) and full buff against nighttime Master Mode EoL:
Whip only: 900~2100 DPS (~1500 on average)
with Sanguine Staff (9 bats): 1900~3100 DPS (~2600 on average)
with Blade Staff (9 blades): 2200~3600 DPS (~3000 on average, note that it tends to deal 2900~3200 or higher when you whip at full speed)
(these 2 are pre-mech weapons)

I also tested Desert Tiger (with or without Firecracker), it's usually around 3500 and there're damage bursts like 4400~5000. But whip stacking is not that easy to manage, and increases your chance to get hit.

For comparison, Spectre+5 DPS accessories combined with Nightglow is ~3600 on average, oftentimes going over 4000 (~4800 max); with Stellar Tune, it constantly goes over 4000, sometimes reaching 5200 DPS.

(Note that all weapons have the best modifier possible and accessories are all Menacing)

My suggestion is buffing Sanguine (it only gives 1100 on average with so many damage boosts including tag bonuses), considering its multihit bug was fixed, and partially/completely reverting the speed bonus nerf on whips. I'm not sure if Blade's nerf needs reverting.

Why are you testing Sanguine and Blade Staff on Empress of Light? Or further, combining pre-Mech Minions with post-Plantera equipment (and even an EoL drop) to gather EoL combat data? This is not demonstrative of any expected real game applications of the weapons.

I also tested Desert Tiger which is on the same tier. Its DPS is still lower than Stellar Tune or even Nightglow despite the use of whip stacking. Its performance is unstable as well. Please refer to my original post.

Desert Tiger is a pre-Golem weapon and EoL is some of the highest difficulty post-Golem content. Appropriate Summons for testing on her are Tempest Staff, Xeno Staff, and potentially, Raven Staff. Desert Tiger is at the lowest end of weapons designed to be viable against her, and is not a reasonable comparison to be used as a DPS comparison against HER drops (especially from a different class).

Also of note, Desert Tiger was not nerfed in this update (nor were any of the Whips designed to be used in tandem with it, unless you count the minor stat adjustment on Durendal).

I realize this is extremely nitpicky and only marginally related to actual game balance, but I have to get this off my chest...

Why was the Pearlwood Sword buffed so much? I get that it's a technically a hardmode weapon, but being so much more powerful than other wooden swords is just weird and doesn't make sense from a world building perspective, if pearlwood really is that much stronger than other types of wood for whatever reason, then why wasn't the armor buffed accordingly as well?

Also, despite the huge buff, it's still essentially useless since it's still outclassed by late pre-hardmode swords, so even from a game balance standpoint the buff makes little sense, unless it was buffed specifically for challenge runs where you start in hardmode?

I'll just be real with you; Pearlwood gear is only there for consistency, and is not designed or balanced to be viable. Because of Ash Wood Sword being added, and being "stronger" than Pearlwood Sword was previously, I felt it worth bumping it up a bit just to keep some sort of linear progression, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what stats it has. I could have just as easily left it as it was, like I did with the other Pearlwood stuff. I'm not going to pursue further changes with Pearlwood gear.

Not sure if this has been suggested, but make mining armor easier to get, as its a hassle to try and get normally and by the time you get it its been like 4 hours or your in hardmode.

The 1.4.1 update made Mining Armor 5x easier to get, and the 1.4.4 update makes it more flexible and useful when only having 1 or 2 pieces. There may also be an additional feature that makes it slightly easier to complete the set as well.

 

[Shyguymask]

I 3000% agree with this, but we're screaming into the void at this point. I guess they *really* want to lock a lot of people out of the terraprisma, which is the real issue here. If this stupid no-hit thing awarded a bragging trophy instead of a useful weapon, no one would be complaining... sigh

Terraprisma is meant to be difficult to obtain, it's the entire point. You complain but you two haven't provided any reasons on why it's a bad thing beyond personal skill issues.

Hell, Terraprisma isn't even the best minion for Moon Lord overall, Stardust Dragon is.

 

[Flubman]

I feel like 2.5% might be too low of a droprate for the Pocket Mirror considering it only comes from a single (and powerful) enemy type.

As for the Fledgling Wings controversy, I feel like this is another Lava Charm situation. Maybe bump its chances up to 5% and call it a day?

 

[J Bame]

I find the Fledgling Wings change ironic to say the least. You would think that after adding THREE new sources of Sandstorm in a Bottle they'd have learned their lesson that ultra-rare worldgen RNG items arent popular...

 

[Schparks]

Could we possibly get a Shimmer Magic dropper?

As far as I know, it hasn't been implemented already. I've tried the original recipe - Crystal Orb and Liquid - and the new thing of dropping a magic dropper filled with water, honey, sand, and lava into the shimmer.

I just think it'd be neat to see falling shimmer drops.

 

[Flubman]

This might be me, but I feel like the quick stack to chests animation could stand to be slowed down. My eyes have trouble following the items.

 

[MrD108]

I would like to draw your attention to the problem that currently Molten Charm and Magma Skull are, which despite being in theory two different accessories, are now exactly the same.

 

[Leinfors]

I would like to draw your attention to the problem that currently Molten Charm and Magma Skull are, which despite being in theory two different accessories, are now exactly the same.

Two paths to the same destination. Not a problem.

 

[Schparks]

I would like to draw your attention to the problem that currently Molten Charm and Magma Skull are, which despite being in theory two different accessories, are now exactly the same.

I thought that the Molten skull inflicted hell-fire, while the molten charm gave 7 seconds of lava immunity?

 

[Bennoloth]

I'll just be real with you; Pearlwood gear is only there for consistency, and is not designed or balanced to be viable. Because of Ash Wood Sword being added, and being "stronger" than Pearlwood Sword was previously, I felt it worth bumping it up a bit just to keep some sort of linear progression, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what stats it has. I could have just as easily left it as it was, like I did with the other Pearlwood stuff. I'm not going to pursue further changes with Pearlwood gear.

Any adventure world that had Hallow as part of the base world, because that's when you can do the building, now has an OP sword in it. If it doesn't matter much to you, I would say the majority of worlds are better off with the old Pearlwood stats. It was still the best wood. There is nothing else in the Hallow that is OP that you can get in a prehardmode world.