Game Mechanics "Tactical" Reloads - Because reloading is a way of life

Battle Bee said:
Nope. When you throw the gun by reloading it, a new copy spawns in your hand. When you throw the Phoenix Blaster, you simply get a new copy of it.
The item Phoenix Blaster does not change however. It works exactly like throwing Possessed Hatchets, Boomerangs, etc.

Oh, and you can have more than one thrown gun at a time.
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Oh. I get it.

Edit: SCREW LOGIC!
 
"Awww, what?! S.D.M.G's reload time is snail speed?! Why can't it be infi-"


Battle Bee said:
Reloading while the gun is completely empty fires a large, red laser beam similar to the Moon Lord and the Saucer's Deathrays. The laser beam lasts for the duration of the reload, dealing extremely high damage and piercing all targets.
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........

nope.gif
 
A suggestion: Different bullet types do different things based on what they are. Regular musket balls do the default ability, maybe Silver increases damage or other effects by .5%?
 
No... Just no. An overhaul is never something to take lightly. While not necessarily a terrible idea for some other game this has no place in Terraria without compleatly overhauling the class. A mechanic overhaul of this scale is not something to be done lightly and will impact far more than might seem initially evident serving as the equivelent of tearing down a housing complex because you don't think the shutters look cool. I will forever oppose any suggestion that tries to make Terraira something it is not.

It is important to remember that combat in Terraria is governed by dps, mobility(avoiding enemy attacks) survivability( a mix of durability(defense) and versatility( adjusting tactics on the fly). and is meant to support the games main venture of exploration seeing new parts of the world interacting with new things(i.e. crafting, fishing etc.) and seeing how the world changes due to your actions.
Each class has different strengths and weaknesses with regards to these categories but needs to be able to tackle each of the games major events. As is the games damage and defense system heavily punish slow firing weapons in comparison to faster higher dps.

In Terraria ranged is built around the role of highest DPS limited by how much ammo you have and featuring worst mobility and the lack of sustaining defensive perks with average defense and a complete lack in ability to heal outside of passive healing and potions. In exchange they have the highest dps and are able to change how most of their weapons operate by using different varieties of ammo as the situation needs it.

arrows are the most common and versatile ammo in exchange for the least amount of weapon options through most of the game.
Rockets provide power in late game with each rocket weapon functioning differently compared to all others.
Guns feature the highest projectile velocities (resulting in the lack notable projectile drop) but tend to be scarcer in the environment being near exclusively bought of crafted and like arrows feature a huge variety of unique ammo types that can completely change how a weapon fires.

Reloads thus are a nerf directly hitting the main aspects of the class their sustained DPS and ability to swap ammo types on the fly and two of the major weapon types in the game.

The real problem comes with gear interaction namely bows which with this change have vastly higher reliability making all guns in the game practically worthless in comparison. (i.e. negative utility cost why should I use a gun when I can use a bow that is more reliable does more damage etc?) You also have to recognize the magnitude of which such a change would affect the game itself as you would have to recode and rebalence most of the game simply to accommodate a simple change because "it feels cool"

This in general is an issue with overhauls which should be reserved exclusively for aspects of the game that are broken or dysfunctional something which warrior/ranger/mage, as the core of Terraria combat, are not.

If you want to implement something like this it should be a unique trait of a single weapon rather than a major overhaul with would require large changes to the source code time and effort by something that would most likely have very mixed reviews at best considering how touchy small changes to weapon balance have raised contentions in the past.
 
Dragrath said:
No... Just no. An overhaul is never something to take lightly. While not necessarily a terrible idea for some other game this has no place in Terraria without compleatly overhauling the class. A mechanic overhaul of this scale is not something to be done lightly and will impact far more than might seem initially evident serving as the equivelent of tearing down a housing complex because you don't think the shutters look cool. I will forever oppose any suggestion that tries to make Terraira something it is not.

It is important to remember that combat in Terraria is governed by dps, mobility(avoiding enemy attacks) survivability( a mix of durability(defense) and versatility( adjusting tactics on the fly). and is meant to support the games main venture of exploration seeing new parts of the world interacting with new things(i.e. crafting, fishing etc.) and seeing how the world changes due to your actions.
Each class has different strengths and weaknesses with regards to these categories but needs to be able to tackle each of the games major events. As is the games damage and defense system heavily punish slow firing weapons in comparison to faster higher dps.

In Terraria ranged is built around the role of highest DPS limited by how much ammo you have and featuring worst mobility and the lack of sustaining defensive perks with average defense and a complete lack in ability to heal outside of passive healing and potions. In exchange they have the highest dps and are able to change how most of their weapons operate by using different varieties of ammo as the situation needs it.

arrows are the most common and versatile ammo in exchange for the least amount of weapon options through most of the game.
Rockets provide power in late game with each rocket weapon functioning differently compared to all others.
Guns feature the highest projectile velocities (resulting in the lack notable projectile drop) but tend to be scarcer in the environment being near exclusively bought of crafted and like arrows feature a huge variety of unique ammo types that can completely change how a weapon fires.

Reloads thus are a nerf directly hitting the main aspects of the class their sustained DPS and ability to swap ammo types on the fly and two of the major weapon types in the game.

The real problem comes with gear interaction namely bows which with this change have vastly higher reliability making all guns in the game practically worthless in comparison. (i.e. negative utility cost why should I use a gun when I can use a bow that is more reliable does more damage etc?) You also have to recognize the magnitude of which such a change would affect the game itself as you would have to recode and rebalence most of the game simply to accommodate a simple change because "it feels cool"

This in general is an issue with overhauls which should be reserved exclusively for aspects of the game that are broken or dysfunctional something which warrior/ranger/mage, as the core of Terraria combat, are not.

If you want to implement something like this it should be a unique trait of a single weapon rather than a major overhaul with would require large changes to the source code time and effort by something that would most likely have very mixed reviews at best considering how touchy small changes to weapon balance have raised contentions in the past.
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So you're saying the Ranger is dependant purely on DPS to do well.
Yes, I realize this, and this is to precisely remove that part of the equation. Pure DPS in games in very boring, IMO, if you just have it. It's much more interesting to use tools given to you in smart ways even if very minor, rather than said tools being very effective to begin with.
I don't see multiple ammo types as much of a benefit. It doesn't add much planning and strategy - you just use the best ammo you have against bosses, and the cheapest one during regular play.

If you think reloads would be a nerf to ranged weapons... rebalancing could be done, no? I see no reason to dismiss an entire mechanic if the balance could be tweaked.

But most importantly, I never expect such a large scale change to be added officially. This is mostly for fun, and a thought experiment.
 
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*Quietly nods at some of the Borderlands inspired ideas*

AcetheGolden said:
I'd be all for this, if it works out better than Tediore guns in BL do!
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Hey, Tediore guns can be pretty good! Just try throwing an appropriately leveled Tediore SMG (especially an E-tech one) with only 1 bullet missing from the clip at a badass, and look at the damage!

Dragrath said:
No... Just no. An overhaul is never something to take lightly. While not necessarily a terrible idea for some other game this has no place in Terraria without compleatly overhauling the class. A mechanic overhaul of this scale is not something to be done lightly and will impact far more than might seem initially evident serving as the equivelent of tearing down a housing complex because you don't think the shutters look cool. I will forever oppose any suggestion that tries to make Terraira something it is not.

It is important to remember that combat in Terraria is governed by dps, mobility(avoiding enemy attacks) survivability( a mix of durability(defense) and versatility( adjusting tactics on the fly). and is meant to support the games main venture of exploration seeing new parts of the world interacting with new things(i.e. crafting, fishing etc.) and seeing how the world changes due to your actions.
Each class has different strengths and weaknesses with regards to these categories but needs to be able to tackle each of the games major events. As is the games damage and defense system heavily punish slow firing weapons in comparison to faster higher dps.

In Terraria ranged is built around the role of highest DPS limited by how much ammo you have and featuring worst mobility and the lack of sustaining defensive perks with average defense and a complete lack in ability to heal outside of passive healing and potions. In exchange they have the highest dps and are able to change how most of their weapons operate by using different varieties of ammo as the situation needs it.

arrows are the most common and versatile ammo in exchange for the least amount of weapon options through most of the game.
Rockets provide power in late game with each rocket weapon functioning differently compared to all others.
Guns feature the highest projectile velocities (resulting in the lack notable projectile drop) but tend to be scarcer in the environment being near exclusively bought of crafted and like arrows feature a huge variety of unique ammo types that can completely change how a weapon fires.

Reloads thus are a nerf directly hitting the main aspects of the class their sustained DPS and ability to swap ammo types on the fly and two of the major weapon types in the game.

The real problem comes with gear interaction namely bows which with this change have vastly higher reliability making all guns in the game practically worthless in comparison. (i.e. negative utility cost why should I use a gun when I can use a bow that is more reliable does more damage etc?) You also have to recognize the magnitude of which such a change would affect the game itself as you would have to recode and rebalence most of the game simply to accommodate a simple change because "it feels cool"

This in general is an issue with overhauls which should be reserved exclusively for aspects of the game that are broken or dysfunctional something which warrior/ranger/mage, as the core of Terraria combat, are not.

If you want to implement something like this it should be a unique trait of a single weapon rather than a major overhaul with would require large changes to the source code time and effort by something that would most likely have very mixed reviews at best considering how touchy small changes to weapon balance have raised contentions in the past.
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If I'm honest, I had the same sort of reaction from seeing the title. But actually reading the suggestion rendered me impressed, and would likely completely destroy your arguments. So many ranged weapons are being given fun and unique ways to DPS during the proposed reloads. I won't go point by point and disassemble your post because I don't have time, but suffice it to say that this suggestion is emphatically not "adhere to common shooting game tropes, take cover behind waist-high walls to reload" which is what you seem to think judging by your saying "I will forever oppose any suggestion that tries to make Terraira something it is not."

In fact, to draw on your comment "If you want to implement something like this it should be a unique trait of a single weapon rather than a major overhaul.." He's suggesting unique traits for many weapons. I for one would like to see such a thing tackled in a mod (if it's even possible, which I doubt).
 
I have an idea for the Boomstick's reload
It has an average reload, and has 10 shots in the clip. When reloaded, it fires 3-5 Explosive Bullets. These bullets do damage equal to ("b" +7), where "b" is equal to how much damage the bullet you're using does. Reloading when there are still shots in the clip will lose all said ammo, but increase the damage of the Explosive bullets by 1 for every 2 shots remaining. (Ex: 8 shots left w/ Musket Balls, 18 Damage Explosive shots)
Also, maybe when reloading a non empty S.D.M.G., it would fire a set amount of smaller lasers? (Ex: 100 shots left, fires 4 mid-sized lasers, size increases for every 25 ammo used, number increases by 1 per 25 shots used)
 
A lot of this reminds me of Enter The Gungeon, which has some weapons with pretty similar mechanics to the ones described. Personally I wouldn't enjoy it, having to watch your clip for certain weapons sounds like a mash-up of the ranger and magic class, but I would definitely give it a shot. There are a few problems for storing the data necessary for reloading weapons, since it would have to either be bound to the player or the item. Each would cause serious exploits or performance issues respectively, but maybe it could be done another way, I have no idea. Also the chain gun can't get any faster than it is.
 
Creeper37500 said:
I have an idea for the Boomstick's reload
It has an average reload, and has 10 shots in the clip. When reloaded, it fires 3-5 Explosive Bullets. These bullets do damage equal to ("b" +7), where "b" is equal to how much damage the bullet you're using does. Reloading when there are still shots in the clip will lose all said ammo, but increase the damage of the Explosive bullets by 1 for every 2 shots remaining. (Ex: 8 shots left w/ Musket Balls, 18 Damage Explosive shots)
Also, maybe when reloading a non empty S.D.M.G., it would fire a set amount of smaller lasers? (Ex: 100 shots left, fires 4 mid-sized lasers, size increases for every 25 ammo used, number increases by 1 per 25 shots used)
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I do like the SDMG idea, but I'm not so fond of the Boomstick having a "fancier" reload than its upgrade, the Shotgun.
I could do something interesting with the Shotgun instead, though.
Allenb60 said:
Also the chain gun can't get any faster than it is.
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The Chain Gun has an use time of 4. So at max fire rate, it would have 2.
 
Battle Bee said:
I do like the SDMG idea, but I'm not so fond of the Boomstick having a "fancier" reload than its upgrade, the Shotgun.
I could do something interesting with the Shotgun instead, though.

The Chain Gun has an use time of 4. So at max fire rate, it would have 2.
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Maybe the last shot of every clip can be a nerfed Explosive Bullet instead?
 
Battle Bee said:
2vpCDEQ.png

Yes. And by default it's 4 use time.
But that's not relevant. It can get faster.
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You should never use it with a use time of four, all of the other modifiers aren't worth using, the increase in speed deals more damage per second than a base damage increase. It already has its modifiers limited because of its speed, there is no way it could increase that using the current intervals.
 
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