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In-depth Hardmode weapon tier list

Baconfry

Baconfry

Terrarian
AngryNimbus said:
For a quick proof, try these swords against everscreams and santanks with and without projectiles
Click to expand...
It seems like Everscream is the only one that truly takes massive damage from this combo due to its size, which causes it to take damage twice from a single beam. Against the slightly smaller Santa-NK1 I was pulling numbers like:

(beetle scale mail) ~1600 beam, ~4600 combined
(hallowed/monk/squire) ~1800 beam, ~3700 combined

Presumably, this is because Santa-NK1 is large enough that the beam can still hit it after the iframes from the blade have worn off. When testing against Target Dummies, it becomes rather obvious that small enemies are not meant to get hit by both the blade and beam in one swing.

So whether it's worth the risk or not depends on whether you think it's a good idea to stand on top of a big enemy like Santa-NK1 or Everscream while trying to attack with the blade. Personally I don't think it's worth it, and I don't think it's worth running a suboptimal armor set like Beetle, either.
 
AngryNimbus

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
Baconfry said:
It seems like Everscream is the only one that truly takes massive damage from this combo due to its size, which causes it to take damage twice from a single beam. Against the slightly smaller Santa-NK1 I was pulling numbers like:

(beetle scale mail) ~1600 beam, ~4600 combined
(hallowed/monk/squire) ~1800 beam, ~3700 combined

Presumably, this is because Santa-NK1 is large enough that the beam can still hit it after the iframes from the blade have worn off. When testing against Target Dummies, it becomes rather obvious that small enemies are not meant to get hit by both the blade and beam in one swing.

So whether it's worth the risk or not depends on whether you think it's a good idea to stand on top of a big enemy like Santa-NK1 or Everscream while trying to attack with the blade. Personally I don't think it's worth it, and I don't think it's worth running a suboptimal armor set like Beetle, either.
Click to expand...
Against 1 dummy (solar flare set) it varies, sometimes it around 7k for sword+beam, sometimes 3.5-4k
In the absolutely same situation!
My assumption would be: if the 1st beam attack is during sword's i-frames, then all consecutive beam attacks do not count (or vice versa)
Against lunatic cultist (small enemy) – it behaves the same
All other swords are stable, thats why I thought that only terra has this ability, seems kinda random, so investing in melee speed is indeed not a reliable choice
 
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qwerty3.14

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
I've been doing some testing with post plantera summons (desert tiger, raven, tempest, , I did a pure summoner build and plan to test out some other sorts of builds, as I imagine some summons get more out of tag bonuses than others.
1609865144077.png

All this is reforged to menacing.
Offensive buffs include summoning, bewitched, wrath, and ichor flask, I also had food in every situation except duke fishron (because I forgot on some of the first trials)
Since the duke fishron fights were short and easy to summon I ended up doing 5 trials for each scenario.
1609865396025.png

Desert Tiger + firecracker, and the xeno staff seem to perform the best. Everything else seems to be roughly comparable
1609865825220.png

Xeno staff is the clear winner here
Sanguine performed much worse than the other minions
Suprisingly the raven staff got 2nd place.
Desert tiger and tempest are in between sanguine and raven
1609866269581.png

I tried out @AngryNimbus advice of resummoning here. Turns out resummoning the desert tiger on the first phase of the martian saucer is less effective than just using the kaleidoscope. I used the firecracker on the second phase both times.

Xeno staff is again the best but it is pretty close to desert tiger and raven. With how quickly the saucer dies on each trial it is entirely possible that rng (like where the saucer spawned and how I reacted to it) was a bigger factor here.
1609866743689.png

I only recorded 1 trial for each minion this time, since the pumpkin moon is a lot longer than a boss fight.
Although I died a lot on wave 15 I made sure there weren't any deaths before that, the times are how long it took to reach wave 15.

For the desert tiger I used kaleidoscope to clean up small enemies, since it took to long for the tiger to run over and activate blazing energy, I tried to use firecracker on the minibosses, but that may have caused a few deaths on wave 15 due to the short range.
Keep in mind this is probably the most unreliable data, since there was a lot of rng and death in the 15th wave of the pumpkin moon. Still might be useful though.
1609867585093.png

1609867598088.png

Edit: Turns out I missed a candy corn rifle, and pumpking trophy I think that was from my desert tiger trial since that was the last one I did.
1609867613375.png

1609867627907.png

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1609867780438.png

1609867792533.png

1609867817752.png

1609867859854.png

1609867875435.png
 
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AngryNimbus

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
qwerty3.14 said:
I've been doing some testing with post plantera summons (desert tiger, raven, tempest, , I did a pure summoner build and plan to test out some other sorts of builds, as I imagine some summons get more out of tag bonuses than others.
View attachment 303665
All this is reforged to menacing.
Offensive buffs include summoning, bewitched, wrath, and ichor flask, I also had food in every situation except duke fishron (because I forgot on some of the first trials)
Since the duke fishron fights were short and easy to summon I ended up doing 5 trials for each scenario.
View attachment 303666
Desert Tiger + firecracker, and the xeno staff seem to perform the best. Everything else seems to be roughly comparable
View attachment 303668
Xeno staff is the clear winner here
Sanguine performed much worse than the other minions
Suprisingly the raven staff got 2nd place.
Desert tiger and tempest are in between sanguine and raven
View attachment 303670
I tried out @AngryNimbus advice of resummoning advice here. Turns out resummoning the desert tiger on the first phase of the martian saucer is less effective than just using the kaleidoscope. I used the firecracker on the second phase both times.

Xeno staff is again the best but it is pretty close to desert tiger and raven. With how quickly the saucer dies on each trial it is entirely possible that rng (like where the saucer spawned and how I reacted to it) was a bigger factor here.
View attachment 303671
I only recorded 1 trial for each minion this time, since the pumpkin moon is a lot longer than a boss fight.
Although I died a lot on wave 15 I made sure there weren't any deaths before that.

For the desert tiger I used kaleidoscope to clean up small enemies, since it took to long for the tiger to run over and activate blazing energy, I tried to use firecracker on the minibosses, but that may have caused a few deaths on wave 15 due to the short range.
Keep in mind this is probably the most unreliable data, since there was a lot of rng and death in the 15th wave of the pumpkin moon. Still might be useful though.
View attachment 303672
View attachment 303673
View attachment 303674
View attachment 303675
View attachment 303677
View attachment 303678
View attachment 303679
View attachment 303680
View attachment 303682
View attachment 303683
Click to expand...
I'll add "if there are dense crowd of more than 7-8 ememies and for Martian Saucer phase 1" to Desert Tiger recast tip for now. Will test it later, if efficiency really does not improve, delete this tip.
For raven staff vs EoL – strange enough, in my fights they chase me instead of her half of the time. Not to run away from her? But then daytime is impossible...
 
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qwerty3.14

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
AngryNimbus said:
For raven staff vs EoL – strange enough, in my fights they chase me instead of her half of the time. Not to run away from her? But then daytime is impossible...
Click to expand...
The ravens had no trouble keeping up with me. Although I haven't recorded it, I don't remember any trouble with using ravens against daytime empress in the past.
 
whoneedsnamestbh

whoneedsnamestbh

Eye of Cthulhu
qwerty3.14 said:
Sanguine performed much worse than the other minions
Click to expand...

I thought as much. I never understood why everyone was always so quick to jump to Sanguine when fighting Empress - yeah it’s reliable, but its DPS by post-golem just flat out doesn’t keep up.

On another note, I’m curious how Dark Harvest compares to Kaleidoscope/Firecracker for Pumpkin Moon or first phase Martian. It’s always been my go-to above Kaleidoscope for crowds, but I’m not entirely sure it actually does better.
 
AngryNimbus

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
whoneedsnamestbh said:
I thought as much. I never understood why everyone was always so quick to jump to Sanguine when fighting Empress - yeah it’s reliable, but its DPS by post-golem just flat out doesn’t keep up.

On another note, I’m curious how Dark Harvest compares to Kaleidoscope/Firecracker for Pumpkin Moon or first phase Martian. It’s always been my go-to above Kaleidoscope for crowds, but I’m not entirely sure it actually does better.
Click to expand...
In 1.4 (not 1.4.1), ironically enough sangune was the only viable option for pre-Golem EoL.
Ravens were not buffed, deadly spheres and pygmies simply didn't work. (And now they don't)
Now Tiger has almost the same tracking + moer DPS, ravens are faster.

In moons and P1 Saucer, Dark Harvest>Kaleidoscope with sangune, blade, raven
Kaleidoscope>Harvest with Tiger, Tempest
Terraprisma – hard to tell, kills so fast
 
whoneedsnamestbh

whoneedsnamestbh

Eye of Cthulhu
AngryNimbus said:
In 1.4 (not 1.4.1), ironically enough sangune was the only viable option for pre-Golem EoL.
Ravens were not buffed, deadly spheres and pygmies simply didn't work. (And now they don't)
Click to expand...

Raven’s damage and speed buff actually did come in 1.4, not 1.4.1. And Xeno still existed as an option that surprisingly nobody used and isn’t that much harder to get - and has actually been *nerfed* in 1.4.1. Sanguine has just never seemed like a good choice for Empress.
 
AngryNimbus

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
whoneedsnamestbh said:
Raven’s damage and speed buff actually did come in 1.4, not 1.4.1. And Xeno still existed as an option that surprisingly nobody used and isn’t that much harder to get - and has actually been *nerfed* in 1.4.1. Sanguine has just never seemed like a good choice for Empress.
Click to expand...
Honestly, for me it is still Tiger& Sanguine > Xeno& Raven.
Xeno often tends drastically decrease its attack rate in speedy fights, total DPS is about the same.
I'll go now and test recasts and minions vs EoL with precise numbers
 
qwerty3.14

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
Everyone's talking about what the best summon is, but I would like to add that, although it seemed to overall be the worst. I was surprised at how well the tempest staff did considering its former reputation.

The thing even got a comparable time to desert tiger against empress of light.
 
qwerty3.14

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
AngryNimbus said:
For raven staff vs EoL – strange enough, in my fights they chase me instead of her half of the time. Not to run away from her? But then daytime is impossible...
Click to expand...
I equiped some hallowed armor and fought against daytime empress of light using the kalediscope and some ravens, I almost killed her on my first try, and beat her on my 2nd attempt.
This is actually the first time I beat Daytime Empress of light as a pure summoner.
 
AngryNimbus

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
We all have different experiences)
My results, all summons were successful, even in Master mode.
Loadout (+bewitching table, summoning potion, 10 minions total):

Loadout.gif


Tests:

No whips, Journey mode (3x difficulty), standing still, godmode.

PM tiger final wave times:

Desert Tiger, no recasts – 11.43
Desert Tiger, recasts – 10.54

PM-Tiger_-no-recast.gif



PM-Tiger_-recasts.gif

Empress times: Journey mode (3x difficulty), real fight, no whips. Targets are focused via holding staff + RMB

Every Empress is summoned at 7.30 PM.
  • Tiger 9.28
  • Xeno 9.37
  • Sanguine 10.43
  • Ravens 12.10
  • Tempest 12.57
With Whips, Xeno *should* be the first due to its synergy with Kaleidscope, which is easier to use than short Tiger’s Firecraker.
Tiger recasting is moderately effective, saves about 40 seconds in PM.

Screenshots were taken a couple of seconds after kills.

Tiger:
EoL_-Tiger.gif

Xeno:
EoL_-Xeno.gif

Sanguine:
EoL_-Sanguine.gif

Raven:
EoL_-Ravens.gif
 

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qwerty3.14

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
whoneedsnamestbh said:
On another note, I’m curious how Dark Harvest compares to Kaleidoscope/Firecracker for Pumpkin Moon or first phase Martian. It’s always been my go-to above Kaleidoscope for crowds, but I’m not entirely sure it actually does better.
Click to expand...
I did some more test on the martian saucer for the dark harvest. I still used kaleidiscope 2nd phase.
1609876827411.png
 
AngryNimbus

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
qwerty3.14 said:
You should be using whips in 'no recast' mode? That's what it's competing against.
Click to expand...
I tested pure minion performance – for reference. Firecracker adds a "fixed amount" of damage to these results.
Thus, Tiger+recast+firecracker > Tiger+firecracker, too
 
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