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Let's talk about "Expert" Mode...

Battle Bee

Terrarian
The problem with Expert Mode is that everything is way too damn tanky.
The very early-game was one of the worst parts of Terraria to begin with, because you had to repeatedly, slowly and repetitively stab every enemy in your way.

Now it's even worse.

If the HP buff was 1.2x rather than 2x, I would be okay with it. Increased enemy health does pretty much nothing to increase difficulty.
 

Hie the Badger

The Destroyer
There's not really much you can do to make this game harder. It doesn't have many dimensions to make harder. So if you want a harder game you are going to get doubled numbers difficulty. It's actually getting pretty boring for me and I went back to playing my main game.

Maybe it doesn't help that I already was at plantera in my main save before I started a expert mode save. Felt good at first. Now it feels kinda bland double numbers nonsense. But not really the game's fault.

PS: Will probably just move my main char onto expert mode worlds. I know I will make expert mode mining worlds from now on.
 

Battle Bee

Terrarian
There's not really much you can do to make this game harder. It doesn't have many dimensions to make harder. So if you want a harder game you are going to get doubled numbers difficulty.
Double damage is fine.
Double health is just tedious. (Though I guess it contributes to the "Oh :red: that thing has over 1000 HP, better stay away" effect.)

Increased health for bosses is fine, because most of the bosses in the game have a timer. (Kill before daytime)
 

General Milky

Terrarian
The problem with Expert Mode is that everything is way too damn tanky.
The very early-game was one of the worst parts of Terraria to begin with, because you had to repeatedly, slowly and repetitively stab every enemy in your way.

Now it's even worse.

If the HP buff was 1.2x rather than 2x, I would be okay with it. Increased enemy health does pretty much nothing to increase difficulty.
I'm the total opposite. I find that everything dies quickly enough (even endgame, with common mobs that have a few thousand HP) but the damage they do is unforgivably killer. Being 2-shot post plantera is rough, especially since not only do things hit hard, but it's fundamentally harder to avoid them in the first place.
 

Drarky

Terrarian
I had to fight through my way as a child to beat Shadow Devil in Mega Man X5 in Xpert because nobody told me I could change the difficulty.

Did I complained? A little, but that didn't stop me from beating the damn thing. And it felt SO satisfying.

Maybe it's just me, but the fact that everything is so hard, dangerous and far more scary hypes me up a lot while playing. It can be frustrating of course, but after I finally get rid of that annoyance I just feel SO cool that I don't care at all about the pain, because now it's gone.

I started a Hardcore run and the map generation definitely was not kind (Underground Desert on one side and the other has Corruption yay), but that means I'll have to make smart decisions to actually get anything before the RIP happens, and I don't know about you but for me, it's always fun to have a challenge from time to time, even if it's tough.
 

Hie the Badger

The Destroyer
I've played some pretty hard games in my time especially growing up so I have something to base it off of. Not sure if I will stop playing expert mode but I do know I want to beat the game on the world I am nearly 90% one with before I do.
 

Auraza

Terrarian
i have always felt that increasing the spawn rate and adding two or three new universal attack types to shuffle between mobs would contribute more to an "expert" feel than double damage and health ever has

similarly, increasing the current ai's use of their mechanics would contribute to difficulty in a relatively interesting way

chaos elementals, upon hitting a player, could teleport directly behind the player so that the player is knocked from the first hit into a second hit.

bats could spawn in pairs and have a group ai that directs them to attack from opposite sides of the player.

zombies could heal themselves by walking over the gory bits of other monsters (though that would be hard to do. maybe they could heal when they land a hit?)

i like the extra moves on the bosses, but the monsters are not very interesting to fight.
 

Auraza

Terrarian
Bat hordes. Brilliant idea.
you find yourself at the bottom of a vast cavern, slightly illuminated by the single torch left in your hand. somewhere in the distance you hear the slow, rhythmic dripping of water. you would almost swear that the sound lines up with the painful throbbing in your leg. unlike most things crushed by a boulder, there is still just enough feeling in the leg to be certain.

you wearily limp back to the safety of your previous torches' light. deciding (quite logically) that lava baths are not conducive to one's health, you prepare what little rope you have left for a long ascent. you scan the above ledge, looking for a solid surface to support your weight on the climb. that's when you hear them:

the bats.

out of the darkness, a horde of dark shapes descends around you. the formerly quiet cavern now thunders with the echo of, like, a billion monsters on leathery wings, fluttering about with the finesse of a drunken ice skater. before you have time to react, before you have time to even take another breath, the bats are on you. all at once, they bump into you with all the force in their tiny devil worshiping bodies.

"what are you, blind?" you exclaim, more annoyed than injured. you take a moment to remember that bats are actually blind, which, admittedly, reduces the impact of your rhetoric.

not that it matters. they just pushed you into lava.

and that is why bats should be in hordes
 

Granger

Terrarian
Apart from the painfully slow start (though i have to admit, fighting my way trough the underground desert like the bonehead i am contributed to that) experts normal mobs were "what, thats it?". Sure a good number of them had AI changes but i dont feel like any of these have made the game significantly harder. Its mostly that it takes longer to kill them. I really like how hard they hit you though, they punish you harshly for mistakes.

As for the bosses... yasss this is fun! Same i felt over Brain of chtulhu when it was added, fun enough for me to fight it again and again despite not needing any gear from it... ended up with a couple of platinum coins.
Gotta fight expert Skeletron again - with less gear. Totally overprepared that one (because i heard he'd practically sit ontop of you... exaggerations. :/) but it still was a ton of fun.

Regarding OPs complaints... what is your point? If you dont like the challenge and only play expert for its loot then surely you'd have no qualms using a etablished character and stomp the bosses to claim what you're after?
You completionists always can get the items this way, why'd you use a new character for this if you despise such difficlty?

As with almost anything in sandbox games, the one who decides how challenging things are gonna be are you - theres always the option of tackling things by overgaring for less challenge or while you're undergeared for more challenge. You challenge yourself.
And thats where i drive my satisfication from, trying to beat these bosses while having only 6 defense? Bring it on. And if i do manage to do it all the sweeter the exclusive loot is. And yes, expert having exclusive loot as incentive is a good thing in my oponion.
Mmh, lets view it as optional boss. You can skip it, fight it later or fight it now. Its up to you, but the later you fight the easier it'll be, the earlier you do, the sweeter the loot is - for you personally. And bragging rights, of course.

I'm fairly sure that EoC's erratic charging does indeed have a pattern, it is just too hard to initially see and isn't rendered as an importance to know. At the end of the day, expert mode or not, it's still the first boss and will always be trivial to engage.
Uhm sorry? Did i read that right?
His charges are extremely predictable, once he starts the direction is always the same - to where you stand right now, happen after always the same interval (slightly faster than once a second i think) and always go the same distance.

Really now, he hit me once with that, the very first time as i didnt expect him to go really fast, after that it was actually funny how he would always zigzag behind me without hitting me even once. Only issue is hitting him while he does that.

Its simple to dodge aswell, simply jump diagonally away from him as soon he starts dashing and then just keep going. Or diagonally go a platform down if you're on the highest level of your arena. Doesnt even need any movement accessoires.

you find yourself at the bottom of a vast cavern, slightly illuminated by the single torch left in your hand. somewhere in the distance you hear the slow, rhythmic dripping of water. you would almost swear that the sound lines up with the painful throbbing in your leg. unlike most things crushed by a boulder, there is still just enough feeling in the leg to be certain.

you wearily limp back to the safety of your previous torches' light. deciding (quite logically) that lava baths are not conducive to one's health, you prepare what little rope you have left for a long ascent. you scan the above ledge, looking for a solid surface to support your weight on the climb. that's when you hear them:

the bats.

out of the darkness, a horde of dark shapes descends around you. the formerly quiet cavern now thunders with the echo of, like, a billion monsters on leathery wings, fluttering about with the finesse of a drunken ice skater. before you have time to react, before you have time to even take another breath, the bats are on you. all at once, they bump into you with all the force in their tiny devil worshiping bodies.

"what are you, blind?" you exclaim, more annoyed than injured. you take a moment to remember that bats are actually blind, which, admittedly, reduces the impact of your rhetoric.

not that it matters. they just pushed you into lava.

and that is why bats should be in hordes
Damn, these bats. They lurk in the dark, waiting for a opportunity to strike at the worst time.
 

DJFlare84

Mechanic
The problem with Expert Mode is that everything is way too damn tanky.
The very early-game was one of the worst parts of Terraria to begin with, because you had to repeatedly, slowly and repetitively stab every enemy in your way.

Now it's even worse.

If the HP buff was 1.2x rather than 2x, I would be okay with it. Increased enemy health does pretty much nothing to increase difficulty.
I'm the total opposite. I find that everything dies quickly enough (even endgame, with common mobs that have a few thousand HP) but the damage they do is unforgivably killer. Being 2-shot post plantera is rough, especially since not only do things hit hard, but it's fundamentally harder to avoid them in the first place.
It was a little of both, for me. But I think the absolutely worst part of Expert Mode was that...

... really? Honestly? ... it... didn't really feel any different.

When I heard AI was getting tweaked so that enemies would be smarter, I was ECSTATIC. I was excited. I didn't play Expert Mode JUST for the loot, I also wanted to kinda playtest this "New experience". To me, it sounded like it was going to be Terraria, if EVERYTHING WAS DIFFERENT. Enemies would move in new ways and I would have to think up new ways to fight them.

But in the end, almost absolutely NOTHING... was really different.

Eye of Cthulhu has that cool monster-hunter style rage mode that lets him zippidy-zap around really fast and don't get me WRONG, that's pretty exciting.

And the Brain? Oh man. When I saw the illusion trick I was all "HELL YES. Now I'm fighting Phantoon! This is AWESOME!!!".

But, really, when I look back at it, none of these changes really changed the way I approached the bosses. I still Demon Scythed the living tar out of everything. I didn't move differently than I would've in normal mode. ESPECIALLY when it came to the Mecha Bosses.

For me, it was more apparent there than anywhere else that the only "difficulty" added to the game was a huge jump in enemy HP and damage (btw, Daedalus Stormbow is SO MUCH FUN WITH HOLY ARROWS YOU GUYS. YOU HAVE NO IDEA). And... well... that's why I feel like Expert Mode is just plain cheap. It's the same damn game with hyped up HP and Damage and I feel like they tried to sell me something but I got something completely different in exchange.

So... really. Expert Mode didn't "challenge" me. It just annoyed me to death. I really will not play it again anytime soon. lol

Regarding OPs complaints... what is your point? If you dont like the challenge and only play expert for its loot then surely you'd have no qualms using a etablished character and stomp the bosses to claim what you're after?
You completionists always can get the items this way, why'd you use a new character for this if you despise such difficlty?
It's not the difficulty I despise, but the grind. Like I just got through saying, Expert Mode didn't feel difficult, it just felt needlessly "extended", if that makes sense.

If you're asking why I went through the trouble to play it legitimately, it's because I had heard about the tweaked AI and was looking forward to having a brand new experience. Instead I wound up completely disappointed and frustrated and annoyed a game that convinced me to put my nose to a grindstone instead of actually throwing anything particularly challenging at me.

And it's not Expert Mode that I have a complaint with so much as people who defend it so fervently without a very basic understanding that people have a right to complain about things.

Person A has a right to complain that Expert Mode is too difficult and probably needs to be toned down.

Person B has no right to tell him to shut up because he's "wrong".
 
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Natic

Skeletron Prime
tbh, i would love to see if the normal moonlord drops the 6th accessory slot item with something like 5% drop chance. The rest of the items you can farm on overgeared char and bring them with you to normal worlds...

That is the only change I want to see, as I love the challenge of the expert mode (so far :) )
 

Kreuz Drache

Official Terrarian
It was a little of both, for me. But I think the absolutely worst part of Expert Mode was that...

... really? Honestly? ... it... didn't really feel any different.

When I heard AI was getting tweaked so that enemies would be smarter, I was ECSTATIC. I was excited. I didn't play Expert Mode JUST for the loot, I also wanted to kinda playtest this "New experience". To me, it sounded like it was going to be Terraria, if EVERYTHING WAS DIFFERENT. Enemies would move in new ways and I would have to think up new ways to fight them.

But in the end, almost absolutely NOTHING... was really different.

Eye of Cthulhu has that cool monster-hunter style rage mode that lets him zippidy-zap around really fast and don't get me WRONG, that's pretty exciting.

And the Brain? Oh man. When I saw the illusion trick I was all "HELL YES. Now I'm fighting Phantoon! This is AWESOME!!!".

But, really, when I look back at it, none of these changes really changed the way I approached the bosses. I still Demon Scythed the living tar out of everything. I didn't move differently than I would've in normal mode. ESPECIALLY when it came to the Mecha Bosses.

For me, it was more apparent there than anywhere else that the only "difficulty" added to the game was a huge jump in enemy HP and damage (btw, Daedalus Stormbow is SO MUCH FUN WITH HOLY ARROWS YOU GUYS. YOU HAVE NO IDEA). And... well... that's why I feel like Expert Mode is just plain cheap. It's the same damn game with hyped up HP and Damage and I feel like they tried to sell me something but I got something completely different in exchange.

So... really. Expert Mode didn't "challenge" me. It just annoyed me to death. I really will not play it again anytime soon. lol

It's not the difficulty I despise, but the grind. Like I just got through saying, Expert Mode didn't feel difficult, it just felt needlessly "extended", if that makes sense.
This is exactly how I felt too with the expert mode once beating Wall of Flesh.

There were some good ideas, such as the longer range zombies and the skeletons that throw bones at you. The Jelly Fish's shock field made you consider not going gung ho with close-range melee weapons. And the Feral Bite debuff did made me more cautious, incase of getting the random confused status. And some of the bosses each having their skill when they are low is nice. But after seeing those, all the other enemies were the same for the most part.

It also does not help that losing money is honestly not that big of deal in Expert mode cause you can easily get back in game, due to the heighten loot drops.

I dunno, it's not a terrible mode, but it's definitely not as interesting as wiki page made it sound to be.
 

Evan20000

Terrarian
I'm rather happy with Expert Mode as a whole but it sounds like your problem is that there's expert-exclusive loot rather than with the mode itself.
The problem is that there's a large portion of players who would likely complain if there wasn't some 'incentive' to play Expert (Look at any game with a sizable community with a hardmode that offers no rewards) so the devs are in a catch-22. Ultimately, if you aren't up to the challenge, there's plenty of ways to cheese the bosses and easily farm the unique loot so I feel the developers made the right call by adding additional items. Also, just because someone is a completionist doesn't mean that the developers have to cater to that; completionism is a self-imposed facet of the game.
 

DJFlare84

Mechanic
This is exactly how I felt too with the expert mode once beating Wall of Flesh.

There were some good ideas, such as the longer range zombies and the skeletons that throw bones at you.
I really, really like how some of the zombies carry one of their own arms and use it as a freaking weapon. That's fxxxing genius.

The Jelly Fish's shock field made you consider not going gung ho with close-range melee weapons. And the Feral Bite debuff did made me more cautious, incase of getting the random confused status. And some of the bosses each having their skill when they are low is nice. But after seeing those, all the other enemies were the same for the most part.

It also does not help that losing money is honestly not that big of deal in Expert mode cause you can easily get back in game, due to the heighten loot drops.

I dunno, it's not a terrible mode, but it's definitely not as interesting as wiki page made it sound to be.
Yeah I don't think it's BAD... I just think it was overhyped and honestly way too much effort for not enough reward.
 

Granger

Terrarian
I'm on about Expert EoC. Which most could have guessed, seeing as this whole thread is about Expert Mode.

And EoC in that mode doesn't always charge directly at you.
Yes, i am also talking about expert mode eoc, what makes you think i aint?

I suppose ill refight him then to double check... but im 100% certain that thats what i've seen.

To claify, with chargin directly at you i dont mean homing like chlorophyte bullets do, but rather like normal bullets do - in a straight line, continuing for a bit into that direction even if he misses.
 

FlakMaster

The Destroyer
Yes, but Expert EoC does it so quickly in different directions that it's hard to not be hit unless you're doing the classic 'run in a straight line backwards with hermes boots' tactic.

Not to say that you can't recover from those hits quickly.
 

Granger

Terrarian
Like i said, i just was diagonally climbing platforms up and down in order to dodge it, he starts a dash, i jump, he zooms past me. He does it again and i jump again, miss again. Repeat until hes dead...

I had hermes boots but i didnt use them to do the run and attack, but i feel they're needed either way, cant see a different way of dodging that one short dash where he sits directly above you in the first half. Or just tank it i guess, not exactly viable for a all on dps mage but the other classes would be fine.
 
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