• For issues you find with the Switch and Console releases, please follow this link and give as much detail as possible. This is the speediest way to get info to Pipeworks and get a hotfix in the works.
  • 1.4 will bring many changes to the PC version. We strongly advise making plans to back up your worlds and players prior to updating your game. More details here.
  • Begin your search for Journey's End information here and here. Please report bugs and issues for Journey's End here.
  • For issues you find with the Mobile 1.3 update, please follow this link and give as much detail as possible. This is the speediest way to get info to DR Studios to look at your issue. Also, some troubleshooting hints here.

Make Minions update their damage values properly.

Derpling Ω

Plantera
Currently, minions only have the damage increases of the gear that you were wearing when you summoned them. This is extremely counterintuitive and encourages the swapping of armor/accessories a little too much. So, make the minions have their damage (and soon crit chance) update correctly when changing your gear.
 

Derpling Ω

Plantera
Therefore eliminating Tiki armor from use after Golem. I like this.
No, just the opposite. It gives the player more options rather than having a more optimal way to do things (summon with spooky set>switch to tiki>summon more). Tiki armor was already invalid after Golem because of how powerful the Forbidden Treads are, and how stupidly strong they get when combined with Old One's Army sets.
 

Danny Ω

The Destroyer
No, just the opposite. It gives the player more options rather than having a more optimal way to do things (summon with spooky set>switch to tiki>summon more). Tiki armor was already invalid after Golem because of how powerful the Forbidden Treads are, and how stupidly strong they get when combined with Old One's Army sets.
I just love Spooky armor for no real reason. I want it to be buffed to Beetle-Shroomite-Spectre tier of power, if that makes sense
 

Storm Diver

Skeletron Prime
Why isn't this a thing already? Even though I never use summoner gear and only ever have one minion at any time this would make summoners more independent.
 

Derpling Ω

Plantera
Why isn't this a thing already? Even though I never use summoner gear and only ever have one minion at any time this would make summoners more independent.
It also would not allow you to be able to swap in a lot of summoning accessories and immediately swap them out to boost the damage of your single minion by quite a lot, and would make you actually have to specifically design your loadout to be mixed instead. This is a nerf, technically. But certainly not a big one, and it definitely brings the system to where it was intended.

Edit: I've tested, and for some reason attributes like Armor Penetration actually do update properly. That's pretty weird...
 
Last edited:

Mille Marteaux

The Destroyer
God, please. I'm tired of "optimal" play being a weird juggling act that also happens to involve sitting in a pool of liquid on your FIshron mount while you have Feral Bite.

I kind of like that it exists as an option, but man. I'm more than willing to trade some raw damage that's not even warranted for the peace of mind that comes with not having to do obtuse nonsense like that.
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
All projectiles follow this rule not just summons. Summons are just the most noticeable because they are the only projectiles that last more than a few seconds. The damage a projectile does is determined when it is created. Whereas things like armor penetration and if you critically hit are decided on the collision. I think part of the reason summons don't crit is because crit bonuses are modified by the crit stat on the weapon you are holding (you don't hold summon weapons for long). If they add crit to summoners then I'm pretty sure they will fix this while they're at it.
 

Derpling Ω

Plantera
All projectiles follow this rule not just summons. Summons are just the most noticeable because they are the only projectiles that last more than a few seconds. The damage a projectile does is determined when it is created. Whereas things like armor penetration and if you critically hit are decided on the collision. I think part of the reason summons don't crit is because crit bonuses are modified by the crit stat on the weapon you are holding (you don't hold summon weapons for long). If they add crit to summoners I'm pretty sure this will get fixed.
I didn't know that, thanks for the explanation :D

Does that mean that if you fire a bow and switch to the sniper rifle immediately, you get higher crit chance on your arrows? Or am I just reading this wrong...
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
I didn't know that, thanks for the explanation :D

Does that mean that if you fire a bow and switch to the sniper rifle immediately, you get higher crit chance on your arrows? Or am I just reading this wrong...
let me double check my de-compiled code... yep
The player has a `rangedCrit` stat that starts at 4 it is then added onto via equipment and the crit stat of the held weapon. So if you are holding a sniper rifle while your arrow hits you will get the extra crit. So yeah in order to make summon weapons properly have crit implimented it would either all have to come from equipment/buffs or they would have to change how weapons effect crit chance.
 

Derpling Ω

Plantera
let me double check my de-compiled code... yep
The player has a `rangedCrit` stat that starts at 4 it is then added onto via equipment and the crit stat of the held weapon. So if you are holding a sniper rifle while your arrow hits you will get the extra crit. So yeah in order to make summon weapons properly have crit implimented it would either all have to come from equipment/buffs or they would have to change how weapons effect crit chance.
there was a 1.4 spoiler where a minion crit :)
 

Ganransu

Terrarian
This is good rebalance. The problem with summoners is that the class is incredibly broken with magikarp power mixed in, so it's nice to see someone step up and think of ways to rebalance the train wreck that is summoning mechanics
 

scientistB

Dungeon Spirit
Eh, I'm not really sure about this one.
The biggest problem I see with a change like this is that, items like the Hercules Beetle will see much less use. When I was a young Summoner in 1.2, I regularly wore my Hercules Beetle along with the Papyrus Scarab, not knowing how summon damage calculation worked, not knowing that my minions were living projectiles. It was a waste of a slot, so I was a bit slow and frail.
This would also leave players at a decision on whether they should keep Tiki armor for the extra minion and defense, or use Spooky for higher damage at the cost of both. Going up against the literal Celestial Pillars while lacking some damage or defense depending, will surely snap a Summoner in half unless they are an excellent builder for those encounters. However, currently, a smart Summoner can prepare better with the Spooky-Tiki swapping method (or using the aforementioned Old One sets with or without the Forbidden Treads).
Another thing I take into account is that Summoner was nonexistent when the game was around for its first two or three years. I don't really have a problem with the whole complicated swappy-loadout deal because it adds to the fact that Summoner is quite unique compared to the other classes (and I also feel pretty advanced doing it). Calamity actually made this change to Summoners, but I'm not really a fan of it. This is mostly a personal preference, so not everyone will feel the same way. I like putting more thought into my loadout, personally, especially when the results pay off well in the end. It's a rewarding feeling to go through all the effort of building your damage up.

However, I would be more open to this idea if a few things changed:
Items like the Pygmy Necklace could have a Tinker upgrade, perhaps combining with the Papyrus Scarab and some Stardust Fragments. Maybe that sounds a bit too OP, but perhaps it would still grant just 1 extra minion but with slightly higher damage. This way, I wouldn't need to always worry about whatever damage I'm lacking since I already have a decent compromise (and I can put something other than a Hercules Beetle in my vanity accessory slot).
Forbidden is very solid of an armor on its own, and Stardust is a straight upgrade to Tiki and Spooky. The only suggestion I could make to armors is that perhaps Tiki could get a slight bump in damage, as it's currenly as strong as Spider armor but with a bit more defense and an extra minion; an upgrade I personally don't mind, but that's mostly because I can use the swappy-loadout to make up for what I somewhat lack. Considering I get the Hercules Beetle and the Pygmy Necklace at the same time as the Tiki armor, I definitely feel like I've gained a huge and much needed step forward as a Summoner.
We could also get minions to deal critical hits, but they would probably have to be quite a low chance considering how fast and hard some minions can hit already. We already have the Lightning Aura and Forbidden Sign sandstorm already, and those perform quite well in some circumstances. There's a chance that we'll actually see more minion crits in 1.4 and I'm looking forward to that.
I'd also be in favor of possible unique weapon modifiers for summon staves. They could keep all the same magic weapon reforges, but seeing modifiers for the minions themselves would be pretty nice, such as their movement speed, attack speed, and field of vision. This way, they could make up for their lost damage in other useful ways.
Which leads to my final thing; a possible active weapon that deals summon damage. What I mean is, a weapon that deals summon damage without necessarily summoning minions or sentries. Imagine a tweaked Bat Scepter that dealt summon damage, or a weapon that spawns minions that immediately blow themselves up upon hitting a wall or enemy. The special dagger weapon from Thorium comes to mind, which spawns a temporary soul to aid you with each enemy you kill with it. Perhaps these "active" weapons would be the ones to deal critical hits, and would give more power to those who play Summoners as strictly "summon damage only" (I don't mind using subweapons of other classes to aid my minions' damage though).
I also understand the dangers of making Summoners too powerful if you add more active ways to deal damage on top of the constant area DPS of their minions. To that, I suggest, make minions update their damage values properly ;P

I think I've come full circle now. Phew.
 

Derpling Ω

Plantera
Eh, I'm not really sure about this one.
The biggest problem I see with a change like this is that, items like the Hercules Beetle will see much less use. When I was a young Summoner in 1.2, I regularly wore my Hercules Beetle along with the Papyrus Scarab, not knowing how summon damage calculation worked, not knowing that my minions were living projectiles. It was a waste of a slot, so I was a bit slow and frail.
This would also leave players at a decision on whether they should keep Tiki armor for the extra minion and defense, or use Spooky for higher damage at the cost of both. Going up against the literal Celestial Pillars while lacking some damage or defense depending, will surely snap a Summoner in half unless they are an excellent builder for those encounters. However, currently, a smart Summoner can prepare better with the Spooky-Tiki swapping method (or using the aforementioned Old One sets with or without the Forbidden Treads).
Another thing I take into account is that Summoner was nonexistent when the game was around for its first two or three years. I don't really have a problem with the whole complicated swappy-loadout deal because it adds to the fact that Summoner is quite unique compared to the other classes (and I also feel pretty advanced doing it). Calamity actually made this change to Summoners, but I'm not really a fan of it. This is mostly a personal preference, so not everyone will feel the same way. I like putting more thought into my loadout, personally, especially when the results pay off well in the end. It's a rewarding feeling to go through all the effort of building your damage up.

However, I would be more open to this idea if a few things changed:
Items like the Pygmy Necklace could have a Tinker upgrade, perhaps combining with the Papyrus Scarab and some Stardust Fragments. Maybe that sounds a bit too OP, but perhaps it would still grant just 1 extra minion but with slightly higher damage. This way, I wouldn't need to always worry about whatever damage I'm lacking since I already have a decent compromise (and I can put something other than a Hercules Beetle in my vanity accessory slot).
Forbidden is very solid of an armor on its own, and Stardust is a straight upgrade to Tiki and Spooky. The only suggestion I could make to armors is that perhaps Tiki could get a slight bump in damage, as it's currenly as strong as Spider armor but with a bit more defense and an extra minion; an upgrade I personally don't mind, but that's mostly because I can use the swappy-loadout to make up for what I somewhat lack. Considering I get the Hercules Beetle and the Pygmy Necklace at the same time as the Tiki armor, I definitely feel like I've gained a huge and much needed step forward as a Summoner.
We could also get minions to deal critical hits, but they would probably have to be quite a low chance considering how fast and hard some minions can hit already. We already have the Lightning Aura and Forbidden Sign sandstorm already, and those perform quite well in some circumstances. There's a chance that we'll actually see more minion crits in 1.4 and I'm looking forward to that.
I'd also be in favor of possible unique weapon modifiers for summon staves. They could keep all the same magic weapon reforges, but seeing modifiers for the minions themselves would be pretty nice, such as their movement speed, attack speed, and field of vision. This way, they could make up for their lost damage in other useful ways.
Which leads to my final thing; a possible active weapon that deals summon damage. What I mean is, a weapon that deals summon damage without necessarily summoning minions or sentries. Imagine a tweaked Bat Scepter that dealt summon damage, or a weapon that spawns minions that immediately blow themselves up upon hitting a wall or enemy. The special dagger weapon from Thorium comes to mind, which spawns a temporary soul to aid you with each enemy you kill with it. Perhaps these "active" weapons would be the ones to deal critical hits, and would give more power to those who play Summoners as strictly "summon damage only" (I don't mind using subweapons of other classes to aid my minions' damage though).
I also understand the dangers of making Summoners too powerful if you add more active ways to deal damage on top of the constant area DPS of their minions. To that, I suggest, make minions update their damage values properly ;P

I think I've come full circle now. Phew.
The thing is, minion crits have actually been confirmed already (look carefully at the teleporting tiger minion spoiler). Plus, Red did say that you are specifically playing summoner wrong if you aren't using a subweapon from another class.
 

scientistB

Dungeon Spirit
The thing is, minion crits have actually been confirmed already (look carefully at the teleporting tiger minion spoiler). Plus, Red did say that you are specifically playing summoner wrong if you aren't using a subweapon from another class.
Man, Red puts my mind at ease by saying that, seriously, lol.
I knew about the tiger minion spoiler, but I wasn't really confirming much other than "We're getting a tiger minion", because I recall someone saying it was still a work in progress. Maybe it won't teleport, maybe it won't crit, maybe it won't hit dummies. Who knows?
All those would be cool though.
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
I know I already mentioned this but this issue is not unique to summoners. projetile damage is decided when it is created but summons are really the only projectiles that last more than a few seconds. The nimbus rod is an example of a non summon weapon that can take advantage of this well (summon it with your spectre hood off).

The way critical hits work right now is the player has a crit stat that is increased by the weapon they are holding, you can have the sky fracture give it's +20% crit to the nimbus rod. If it is confirmed that minions can crit now that means they are likely messing with the mechanics. Otherwise crit modifers on summons will still be useless.

My main issue with how this system works is that it isn't explained anywhere in game, and probably isn't how it is intended to be used. I'm pretty sure it qulifies as a bug. If summoning feels 'weak' without this then it should properly be rebalanced. Although I still find summons to be plenty strong without exploiting this system.

Which leads to my final thing; a possible active weapon that deals summon damage. What I mean is, a weapon that deals summon damage without necessarily summoning minions or sentries. Imagine a tweaked Bat Scepter that dealt summon damage, or a weapon that spawns minions that immediately blow themselves up upon hitting a wall or enemy. The special dagger weapon from Thorium comes to mind, which spawns a temporary soul to aid you with each enemy you kill with it. Perhaps these "active" weapons would be the ones to deal critical hits, and would give more power to those who play Summoners as strictly "summon damage only" (I don't mind using subweapons of other classes to aid my minions' damage though).
A lot of people suggest this but I personally don't want it. I'd rather get more minions and sentries that can fill niches that current minions struggle with like keeping up with bosses. As for being a pure summoner I like the battle standards from throium where your minions get boosts while they are held. Although thorium also adds in said used summon weapons wich I am not a fan of.
 
Top Bottom