Rounding Out the Journey: Terraria 1.4.1 is Here!

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Terraria PVP is effectively a Mario Party minigame that some people have managed to trim things out of to turn into something relatively playable by banning certain items to level the playing field, similar to competitive Pokemon.

Everyone has their own ideal vision of what is and isn't balanced, and everyone has their own house rule set that they enjoy. That's what makes Terraria.. well, Terraria. Some server banning Last Prism in PVP doesn't mean you can't use it on your friends casually, just like how Smogon banning Blaziken doesn't mean you can't use it on your friends.
 
Meh.

Can we stop talking about Pee Vee Pee Pee Vee Schmee?

Every time we take a 90%+ singleplayer/co-op game and start down the PvP road, it never, ever, ever ends well. PvP always breeds toxicity, and a lot of times, these games are NOT balanced around PvP whatsoever.

I kinda wish they had never implemented the ability to do PvP to be honest.
 
Toxophilite [East] said:
Typically~ anything having to do with those two devolves into toxicity for some reason & I'm not in the mood. If the conversation even slightly goes off-the-rails, I'm dropping a nuke. 😏🤷‍♂️ Seriously, f**k those guys...
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trifliglane said:
You don't have jack :red:. You just try to look shrewd.
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Hey guys - please don't attack other members of the community, even if they aren't directly here in the discussion.
 
I'm pretty new to the game and just finished expert mode with my buddies. We assigned each of us a particular role, we got a melee /w Zenith, me the ranger with SDMG and Celebration MK2, a summoner and a mage.
Now what bugs me a little is that it seems that the melee class is somewhat stronger than any other class. I feel like the fact that I'm a ranger does only little help in boss fights when a 100 armor dude with Zenith does more dmg than me and can mostly solo the bosses.
Me and the summoner do enjoy the game as it feels harder to us, but it kind of leaves a bitter taste that our class is somewhat weaker.
Am I missing something?

Best.
 
Toxophilite [East] said:
PvP Players like Ninshu & SashEx shouldn't be used as examples to define the PvP Meta, as both have no clue of what ground rules mean. Are these two really good at all-out, guerrilla warfare, yes, they're exceptional, are they any good at Arena Settings? That remains to be seen. The reason I bring this up, is because changes in landscapes & Arenas are part of Terraria, building is just as much part of the game as swinging a sword. If these two did more Arena PvP, their perspective on balance would be welcomed, but their play styles are extremely polarizing because they somehow bully every person they fight into taking on EoL while having a 1 v 1 duel, that's cool & everything, but it's certainly not the Meta.


Again, these two aren't the authority on what good PvP is, because they don't care about it. Good PvP is about evolving the Metagame by implementing limitations, because at a certain point, you wanna be sure that fights are strictly skill based & that the potential for growth is constantly evolving, having a stagnant Meta is a disservice to everyone playing, which is why servers have bans on certain items. That style of play is just as valid as guerrilla warfare, only, it ensure that the Meta can evolve, by removing a LOT of the gimmicks that later gear promotes, with weapons like Starwrath & Last Prism.

P.S. I don't wanna expose these two, so please don't try to start spreading lies & rumors, I have screenshots & receipts. 😏 🥤
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Go ahead and expose them then.
 
Xylia said:
Can we stop talking about Pee Vee Pee Pee Vee Schmee?

Every time we take a 90%+ singleplayer/co-op game and start down the PvP road, it never, ever, ever ends well. PvP always breeds toxicity, and a lot of times, these games are NOT balanced around PvP whatsoever.
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I mean, that's true, for a long while a LOT of stuff just didn't work for some reason in PvP, with no alternative or explanation, like Minions & Sentries. PvP was still pretty good though, at least back in 2014-2016, which is why I got into it. I'd never considered methods around nerfing some of the gimmicks some weapons had back then, but many Players who hosted servers built amazing arenas & sometimes had rules on what could & couldn't be used.

So long as you have the 10 PvP principles, any game's verses mode can be salvaged.
  1. Spacing & zoning
  2. Footsies & movement
  3. Viable Range options (close, mid, far, long-distance)
  4. Counter-picks & countermeasures
  5. Strengths & weaknesses
  6. A Skill floor & skill ceiling
  7. Limited gimmicks & more player execution
  8. A Healthy learning curve
  9. A healthy community around PvP
  10. A mostly universally agreed upon rule set.
Terraria has all the fundamentals required to Host a healthy PvP scene, but it requires a healthy meta to be formed in order to do it effectively. The same reason a server might ban Starwrath or summoning Bosses or Invasions, is for the same reasons Moon Lord Gear is locked behind the end game & why you aren't able to use it against Plantera in normal progression. It becomes less about learning the Boss & more about how powerful the weapon is, but you can't have that kind of discussion with certain toxic individuals.

Xylia said:
I kinda wish they had never implemented the ability to do PvP to be honest.
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The PvP in this game is amazing, trust me! With the 1.4.1.2 updates, you can even use a Pure Summoner to fight now, which wasn't a thing before! The problem you likely have with PvP is the gimmicks, most people do, because being one-shot by cheese isn't healthy for any metagame & the player on the losing end isn't learning anything. Don't let players like Ninshu & SashEx dictate what PvP should be like, don't get me wrong, it's a valid style, but it has a LOT of flaws & I'm shocked players as smart as them don't see how glaring they are.

trifliglane said:
You don't have jack :red:. You just try to look shrewd.
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It was never my original intention to expose any of them, I just wanted to see how they'd perform in a more rule-based setting. Ask them what happened! 😝 🥤

Plas_maz said:
Go ahead and expose them then.
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Oh I will, but it's not worth inviting that kind of toxicity into this forum, I'll do it on Steam & share the link with anyone who's interested in DMs. It's not worth it right now, as I'm not in the mood, but if provoked, I won't mind at all. It's not like I care much for either of 'em anyway.... 😏🤷‍♂️🥤
 
Plas_maz said:
Go ahead and expose them then.
Click to expand...
Toxophilite [East] said:
I mean, that's true, for a long while a LOT of stuff just didn't work for some reason in PvP, with no alternative or explanation, like Minions & Sentries. PvP was still pretty good though, at least back in 2014-2016, which is why I got into it. I'd never considered methods around nerfing some of the gimmicks some weapons had back then, but many Players who hosted servers built amazing arenas & sometimes had rules on what could & couldn't be used.

So long as you have the 10 PvP principles, any game's verses mode can be salvaged.
  1. Spacing & zoning
  2. Footsies & movement
  3. Viable Range options (close, mid, far, long-distance)
  4. Counter-picks & countermeasures
  5. Strengths & weaknesses
  6. A Skill floor & skill ceiling
  7. Limited gimmicks & more player execution
  8. A Healthy learning curve
  9. A healthy community around PvP
  10. A mostly universally agreed upon rule set.
Terraria has all the fundamentals required to Host a healthy PvP scene, but it requires a healthy meta to be formed in order to do it effectively. The same reason a server might ban Starwrath or summoning Bosses or Invasions, is for the same reasons Moon Lord Gear is locked behind the end game & why you aren't able to use it against Plantera in normal progression. It becomes less about learning the Boss & more about how powerful the weapon is, but you can't have that kind of discussion with certain toxic individuals.


The PvP in this game is amazing, trust me! With the 1.4.1.2 updates, you can even use a Pure Summoner to fight now, which wasn't a thing before! The problem you likely have with PvP is the gimmicks, most people do, because being one-shot by cheese isn't healthy for any metagame & the player on the losing end isn't learning anything. Don't let players like Ninshu & SashEx dictate what PvP should be like, don't get me wrong, it's a valid style, but it has a LOT of flaws & I'm shocked players as smart as them don't see how glaring they are.


It was never my original intention to expose any of them, I just wanted to see how they'd perform in a more rule-based setting. Ask them what happened! 😝 🥤

Oh I will, but it's not worth inviting that kind of toxicity into this forum, I'll do it on Steam & share the link with anyone who's interested in DMs. It's not worth it right now, as I'm not in the mood, but if provoked, I won't mind at all. It's not like I care much for either of 'em anyway.... 😏🤷‍♂️🥤
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I just asked you guys to stop with the drama spreading - this is not an appropriate discussion.
 
cuppuccino said:
I'm pretty new to the game and just finished expert mode with my buddies. We assigned each of us a particular role, we got a melee /w Zenith, me the ranger with SDMG and Celebration MK2, a summoner and a mage.
Now what bugs me a little is that it seems that the melee class is somewhat stronger than any other class. I feel like the fact that I'm a ranger does only little help in boss fights when a 100 armor dude with Zenith does more dmg than me and can mostly solo the bosses.
Me and the summoner do enjoy the game as it feels harder to us, but it kind of leaves a bitter taste that our class is somewhat weaker.
Am I missing something?

Best.
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I’ve seen this argument a good number of times, and Zenith being the strongest weapon doesn’t exactly make Melee the strongest class.

If you try to do a full playthrough without just the endgame weapons, starting with traditional starter gear and working your way through the intended progression, you’ll see that the classes are fairly equal in power to one another - slightly favored toward Ranged and Mage, but overall balanced pretty well.

Zenith, meanwhile, is the *final* weapon, and is the last thing any player will usually obtain. It’s essentially the tier after post-ML, coming one step after all the Moon Lord drops. If your Melee player instead had a Terrarian with a yoyo bag, you’d see the power more evened out.

It’s not really fair to say Melee is the strongest class because of the final weapon - the class should be judged based off how they progress through the game. Take 1.3 Summoner for example - it had a grand total of 3 prehardmode weapons, 2 of which were post boss and the other one being extremely rare - and whips weren’t a thing so Summoner had no real way to defend themselves. Stardust Dragon specifically was completely overpowered but nobody used it as a basis to say Summoner was the best class because it only applied to the Pillars and Moon Lord. Same logic applies to Zenith.

As for Zenith being melee, well. It’s more of a poetic last weapon, not meant to be a favor for melee specifically, and just happens to be melee because swords are highly recognizable in the game. It’s supposed to represent weapons gained across the entire game, which are swords because swords are almost symbolic in the game.
 
whoneedsnamestbh said:
I’ve seen this argument a good number of times, and Zenith being the strongest weapon doesn’t exactly make Melee the strongest class.

If you try to do a full playthrough without just the endgame weapons, starting with traditional starter gear and working your way through the intended progression, you’ll see that the classes are fairly equal in power to one another - slightly favored toward Ranged and Mage, but overall balanced pretty well.

Zenith, meanwhile, is the *final* weapon, and is the last thing any player will usually obtain. It’s essentially the tier after post-ML, coming one step after all the Moon Lord drops. If your Melee player instead had a Terrarian with a yoyo bag, you’d see the power more evened out.

It’s not really fair to say Melee is the strongest class because of the final weapon - the class should be judged based off how they progress through the game. Take 1.3 Summoner for example - it had a grand total of 3 prehardmode weapons, 2 of which were post boss and the other one being extremely rare - and whips weren’t a thing so Summoner had no real way to defend themselves. Stardust Dragon specifically was completely overpowered but nobody used it as a basis to say Summoner was the best class because it only applied to the Pillars and Moon Lord. Same logic applies to Zenith.

As for Zenith being melee, well. It’s more of a poetic last weapon, not meant to be a favor for melee specifically, and just happens to be melee because swords are highly recognizable in the game. It’s supposed to represent weapons gained across the entire game, which are swords because swords are almost symbolic in the game.
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True, you can't say a class is the best if the weapon isn't used for much at its point of the game, you can't say melee is best cause of zenith, you can't say ranged is best cuz of celebration mk2
you can't say magic is best cuz of last prism
You can't rate a class on how strong their weapons are until endgame, you can rate a class based on how good they progress thro the game
 
Chaotic27 said:
Does anybody know if Terraria might be cross-platform once all the games are at the same version?
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It is certainly in the realm of possibility, but console needs to get 1.4 and 1.4.1 and mobile has to get 1.4.1
and as the devs say, they arent promising anything ;)
 
Everything counts! Thanks to your selfless team have serviced us with those fantastic content in such freeway, respect, Re-Logic. And I might do my contribution to completing the WIKI area, let`s make the journey great again.
 
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