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Small ideas to improve summoner

The 1.4 update improved a lot summoners, buffing summoner staffs and armors, adding new staffs and adding the new type of summoner weapon: whips, that are amazing. But summoners are still the worse class in the game, despiste being great against enemies and horde of enemies, they have a terrible disadvantage against bosses, their low defense, limited range even with ranged minions and the way minions work against bosses and other fast moving targets. But i've got some small ideas that could greatly improve summoner and make it stand at least a normal chance against bosses

-summoner staff targeting rework: when holding the right mouse button, besides setting a target for your minions to attack, it would also make minions attack in the direction of the cursor, physical minions will go toward the cursor while ranged minions will shoot in direction to the cursor, no matter if there's an enemy or not, making staffs an actual ranged option for summoner since they have none, even melee has some ranged weapons and swords that shoots ranged beams, this would make it way easier to hit a boss almost like if we were using a ranged weapon, and also would make summoner staffs able to be used as actual weapons, the same effect would be applied to turret staffs

-one of these options:
>summoner armor having more defense than mage at least: as mentioned before summoner is even less ranged than melee and somehow has the worst defense in the game between all classes, so i guess that it would make sense to make summoner armors have more defense than mage armors from the same tier at least
>make it so the less the defense of a class the higher is it's mobility comparing to others: so if it's either resisting moreor having to dodge more make dodging easier, not just vertical mobility(speed) but also a little of horizontal speed(like jump heigh and jump speed) it could keep summoner as the class with less defense as it kinda that makes sense for him to have the smaller defense due to his army of minions but also highest mobility making he more able to retreat while being covered by his minions

-make ranged minions able to attack while flying to the player and make they able to attack enemies off screen: this is another problem that doesn't fit any single bit with summoner's current defense as it forces summoner to be less in movement and stay closer to the target, and this is also a problem because any movement can cause your minions to stop attacking and start flying to you, and landminions won't stop until summoner gets on a ground, i don't get why terraria devs expect players to fight bosses by standing completely idle like a statue with shroomite armor, shiny stone, health regen and ranged minions, who in saint conscious would stand completely idle whitout even attacking during a boss fight?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! also the increase of range is to make summoner more ranged

-more summoner acessories before plantera: summoner acessories besides emblem are only acessible after plantera has been defeated, and it's 3 at the same time, couldn't any of them be sold by witch doctor before plantera? and some new summoner acessories available from early hardmode like a new biome mimic drop, titan hand and it's upgrades technically are good for summoner too but are not summoner specific acessories, i also think that there should be an avenger emblem upgrade for summoner, there's mechanical grove for melee, sniper scope for ranger(despiste the fact that it don't affect ranger exclusively but it's zooming ability only works with a gun) and celestial emblem for mage, why not a papyrus scarab or pygmy necklace upgrade with avenger emblem for summoner?

-give special set bonuses for more hardmode summoner armors: i don't get why most hardmode summoner armors have their set bonus just as summoner/minion stat boosts when all armors for the other classes from the same tier have special set bonuses such as hardmode ore armors, turtle, spectre, shroomite and beetle, the only summoner armors with special set bonuses are forbidden, hallowed and stardust, but for the first two it's because they're not just summoner armors, forbidden is a mix of mage and summoner and hallowed has the same set bonus for any headset choosen for it, and stardust is already the endgame armor(also forbidden is completely garbage, stupid glass defense and the sandstorm is completely useless specially against bosses due to the fact of standing still and dealing low damage).
my ideas of new set bonuses for hardmode summoner armor sets are:
>spider: launches spider eggs with whips that are the same projectiles from spider queen turret: inflicts venom debuff and spawn little spiders to attack enemies
>tiki: has a totem head following all the time, being an obvious reference to crash bandicoot, not much sure about what could it do, the totem head is an armor set minion that don't use minion slot
>spooky: minions and whips inflict a fire debuff on enemies and the summoner itself releases damaging bats when damaged

other changes that aren't really necessary but i think that they would be cool additions to the game:
-making vampire frog and sanguine staff actually legit for their names, making they able to life leech enemies and heal the own summoner when they attack: making vampire frog a worth minion to farm that could be userfull even during mechanicals and for sanguine it might should reduce a little the damage dealt by the staff.

-new endgame whip, spaceworm whip: a possible drop from moonlord, it has the appearence of a giant alien worm with a moonlord like tongue, reminding moonlord's tongue, i'm not much sure about the effect it would have when hitting an enemy with it but would be something special, not just an endgame version of snapthorn/durendal or mourning star/kaleidoscope

-eater staff and creeper staff: new endgame pre-hardmode summoner staffs, the eater staff is the corruption counterpart, having a chance to be dropped from EoW, it's like of a pre-hardmode version of the stardust dragon, with each additional minion actually being a new segment for the eater minion, but instead of floating everywhere it's affected by gravity and can only move inside blocks and comes out to attack enemies, just like worm enemies, whenever it can't reach the player it'll extend fins similar to eater of souls and fly in direction the player; the crimson counterpart is the creeper staff, that's like of a pre-hardmode version of the sanguine staff, summons BoC creeper minions that attacks by going to the target and coming back to the player, slower than sanguine and not being able to pass through walls; both these staffs can be used up to WoF and even during early hardmode until the player gets a hardmode summoner staff
 
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The 1.4 update improved a lot summoners, buffing summoner staffs and armors...the way minions work against bosses and other fast moving targets. But i've got some small ideas that could greatly improve summoner and make it stand at least a normal chance against bosses
I would say it's a trade-off, but I don't agree that Summoner is inherently weaker than most Classes when it comes to fighting Bosses, I'd say it's likely more strict; you're not allowed to make nearly as many mistakes. That's more-than-fair, because in reality, as a Summoner all you need to worry about is not getting hit (movement), you don't have to actually attack anything actively if you don't want to. 🤷‍♂️🍹

-summoner staff targeting rework: when holding the right mouse button...this would make it way easier to hit a boss almost like if we were using a ranged weapon, and also would make summoner staffs able to be used as actual weapons, the same effect would be applied to turret staffs
Thing is, all Minions are not created equal. Unlike other Classes, you don't just trade-in Minions or upgrade to the next-best-thing, like it's a Sword or piece of Armor. Minions in 1.4 typically remain useful for much longer than the average weapon for most other Classes. I think the only issue you're describing is premature Minion swapping. There are plenty of Minions with great tracking, depending on the enemy type. A Summoner should be learning to use the proper Minions against the appropriate Boss Battle. If you're not doing this, it's just a case of bad fundamentals, having nothing to do with the Class needing any buffs or tweaks.

Examples:
  • Twins Staff remains useful, all the way up until Golem.
  • Blades Staff remains useful, all the way up until Golem.
  • Tempest Staff remains useful, all the way up until Pillars.

-one of these options:
>summoner armor having more defense than mage at least...
>make it so the less the defense of a class the higher is it's mobility comparing to others:...making he more able to retreat while being covered by his minions
There are plenty of ways to improve your mobility options in Terraria. Summoner doesn't need any more, if you wanna specialize in movement, you can, there's nothing stopping you from doing so.

Examples:
  • Swiftness Potions.
  • Quick Modifier.
  • New Mounts (Master Mode)
  • Well-fed Buffs etc.

-make ranged minions able to attack while flying to the player and make they able to attack enemies off screen: this is another problem that doesn't fit any single bit with summoner's current defense...why terraria devs expect players to fight bosses by standing completely idle like a statue with shroomite armor, shiny stone, health regen and ranged minions, who in saint conscious would stand completely idle whitout even attacking during a boss fight?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! also the increase of range is to make summoner more ranged
That's why Sentries (Turrets) exist, to give Summoner space control & the ability to attack off-screen if needed. Without jumping through hoops, you're given the Spider Queen Staff, but there are others that unlock for Tier 2 from the Barkeep NPC. You should be upgrading your gear if you're having problems like this as Summoner has all the tools needed to Battle every Boss in the game effectively. Also, a lot of things in the game are designed around multiplayer; if you're soloing, you shouldn't be using certain items that aren't helping you win fights. 🤷‍♂️🍹

-more summoner acessories before plantera:...i also think that there should be an avenger emblem upgrade for summoner, there's mechanical grove for melee, sniper scope for ranger(despiste the fact that it don't affect ranger exclusively but it's zooming ability only works with a gun) and celestial emblem for mage, why not a papyrus scarab or pygmy necklace upgrade with avenger emblem for summoner?
A lot of players seem to forget that defeating you're first Mech Boss unlocks Tier 2 items from OOA Event from the Barkeep. On top of that, you get access to the Forbidden Armor right away if you manage to get your hands on some Titanium/ Adamantite. That means you have the following options right away if you want:
  • Forbidden Mage/ Summoner Hybrid (access to Mage Accessories)
  • Huntress/ Summoner Hybrid (access to Ranger Accessories)
  • Monk Fighter/ Summoner Hybrid (access to Melee Accessories)
  • Apprentice Mage/ Summoner Hybrid (access to Mage Accessories, again)
  • etc.

-give special set bonuses for more hardmode summoner armors: i don't get why most hardmode summoner armors have their set bonus just as summoner/minion stat boosts...
This is false [See Above]. 🤔🍹

other changes that aren't really necessary but i think that they would be cool additions to the game:
-making vampire frog and sanguine staff actually legit for their names, making they able to life leech enemies and heal the own summoner when they attack: making vampire frog a worth minion to farm that could be userfull even during mechanicals and for sanguine it might should reduce a little the damage dealt by the staff.
Summoner Class actually benefits a ton from using Heartreach Potions. If you like this idea, try using some with your build & you'll see that an effect like this already exists.

-eater staff and creeper staff: new endgame pre-hardmode summoner staffs...slower than sanguine and not being able to pass through walls; both these staffs can be used up to WoF and even during early hardmode until the player gets a hardmode summoner staff
You're describing items/ builds in the game that already exist. If you wanna see some cool, fancy stuff, try mixing & matching Minions. The key is to take advantage of their behaviors depending on the situation, not submit to the DPS race like other Classes tend to do. Keep your minions around until you find a proper upgrade, not before. Here are some examples of natural Minion upgrades if you need a bit of help:
  • Twins Staff > Imp Staff > Hornets Staff
  • Blades Staff ≥ Spider's Staff
  • Pirate's Staff > Spider's Staff > Vampire Frog Staff
  • Xeno Staff > Raven's Staff
  • Stardust Cell Staff = Stardust Dragon Staff
  • etc.
Honorable mentions:
  • Crimson Rod
  • Nimbus Rod
  • Clinger Staff
  • Rainbow Gun
  • etc.
 
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Jota Bame

Terrarian
-summoner staff targeting rework: when holding the right mouse button, besides setting a target for your minions to attack, it would also make minions attack in the direction of the cursor, physical minions will go toward the cursor while ranged minions will shoot in direction to the cursor, no matter if there's an enemy or not, making staffs an actual ranged option for summoner since they have none, even melee has some ranged weapons and swords that shoots ranged beams, this would make it way easier to hit a boss almost like if we were using a ranged weapon, and also would make summoner staffs able to be used as actual weapons, the same effect would be applied to turret staffs
Yeah... I'd rather not. This would look super awkward with a lot of minions (Xeno Staff being the biggest example) and :red: up a lot of those that are good because they automatically lock on and target an enemy (Blade Staff, Stardust Dragon). It's much easier to just tweak the behavior of the few minions that would kind of benefit from this.

-one of these options:
>summoner armor having more defense than mage at least: as mentioned before summoner is even less ranged than melee and somehow has the worst defense in the game between all classes, so i guess that it would make sense to make summoner armors have more defense than mage armors from the same tier at least
>make it so the less the defense of a class the higher is it's mobility comparing to others: so if it's either resisting moreor having to dodge more make dodging easier, not just vertical mobility(speed) but also a little of horizontal speed(like jump heigh and jump speed) it could keep summoner as the class with less defense as it kinda that makes sense for him to have the smaller defense due to his army of minions but also highest mobility making he more able to retreat while being covered by his minions
The classic "Whips bad because short range" complaint. Whips are not a weapon you are supposed to use all the time; hell, most of them just make you whip the target once in a while. Whips are unsafe because they are meant to be, they are very powerful when they go off (either with their big tag damage buffs, or with the triple damage from Firecracker) and making them safe in any way would break them.

Just use something else at range, we don't need either of these options (especially the one that wants to rework mobility for each class)

-make ranged minions able to attack while flying to the player and make they able to attack enemies off screen: this is another problem that doesn't fit any single bit with summoner's current defense as it forces summoner to be less in movement and stay closer to the target, and this is also a problem because any movement can cause your minions to stop attacking and start flying to you, and landminions won't stop until summoner gets on a ground, i don't get why terraria devs expect players to fight bosses by standing completely idle like a statue with shroomite armor, shiny stone, health regen and ranged minions, who in saint conscious would stand completely idle whitout even attacking during a boss fight?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! also the increase of range is to make summoner more ranged
Yes. Please. There is nothing worse than seeing a minion spend much more time catching up to you instead of attacking their target (Looking at you, Optic and Tempest Staff). Making them able to attack offscreen is unnecessary and most likely braindead broken, so I'd rather not.

-more summoner acessories before plantera: summoner acessories besides emblem are only acessible after plantera has been defeated, and it's 3 at the same time, couldn't any of them be sold by witch doctor before plantera? and some new summoner acessories available from early hardmode like a new biome mimic drop, titan hand and it's upgrades technically are good for summoner too but are not summoner specific acessories, i also think that there should be an avenger emblem upgrade for summoner, there's mechanical grove for melee, sniper scope for ranger(despiste the fact that it don't affect ranger exclusively but it's zooming ability only works with a gun) and celestial emblem for mage, why not a papyrus scarab or pygmy necklace upgrade with avenger emblem for summoner?
Agreed. The accessory pool for Summoner is pretty depressing until Post Plantera introduces 4 accessories at once. Pygmy Necklace and/or Hercules Beetle can afford to be moved earlier on.

-give special set bonuses for more hardmode summoner armors: i don't get why most hardmode summoner armors have their set bonus just as summoner/minion stat boosts when all armors for the other classes from the same tier have special set bonuses such as hardmode ore armors, turtle, spectre, shroomite and beetle, the only summoner armors with special set bonuses are forbidden, hallowed and stardust, but for the first two it's because they're not just summoner armors, forbidden is a mix of mage and summoner and hallowed has the same set bonus for any headset choosen for it, and stardust is already the endgame armor(also forbidden is completely garbage, stupid glass defense and the sandstorm is completely useless specially against bosses due to the fact of standing still and dealing low damage).
my ideas of new set bonuses for hardmode summoner armor sets are:
>spider: launches spider eggs with whips that are the same projectiles from spider queen turret: inflicts venom debuff and spawn little spiders to attack enemies
>tiki: has a totem head following all the time, being an obvious reference to crash bandicoot, not much sure about what could it do, the totem head is an armor set minion that don't use minion slot
>spooky: minions and whips inflict a fire debuff on enemies and the summoner itself releases damaging bats when damaged
We don't need this. The armors are fine, no need to rebalance them because "they aren't flashy enough". Shroomite and Spectre already have issues with their set bonuses, and Beetle is just glorified stat ups at the end of the day.

-making vampire frog and sanguine staff actually legit for their names, making they able to life leech enemies and heal the own summoner when they attack: making vampire frog a worth minion to farm that could be userfull even during mechanicals and for sanguine it might should reduce a little the damage dealt by the staff.
What if instead of adding a passive lifesteal that is incredibly easy to abuse by all classes, we don't?

-eater staff and creeper staff: new endgame pre-hardmode summoner staffs, the eater staff is the corruption counterpart, having a chance to be dropped from EoW, it's like of a pre-hardmode version of the stardust dragon, with each additional minion actually being a new segment for the eater minion, but instead of floating everywhere it's affected by gravity and can only move inside blocks and comes out to attack enemies, just like worm enemies, whenever it can't reach the player it'll extend fins similar to eater of souls and fly in direction the player; the crimson counterpart is the creeper staff, that's like of a pre-hardmode version of the sanguine staff, summons BoC creeper minions that attacks by going to the target and coming back to the player, slower than sanguine and not being able to pass through walls; both these staffs can be used up to WoF and even during early hardmode until the player gets a hardmode summoner staff
In a world where the Vampire Frog is reasonably available for general progression, the Summoner weapon pool is really just fine. That doesn't mean that no more Summoner weapons should get added, though.
 

Banmei

Terrarian
Some thoughts:

- As far as targeting goes, this is how it used to be. You could target enemies (bosses) with your cursor and they would attack them. This was replaced by whips.

The problems in 1.4 are the same as before.
- Prehardmode is still lacking
- Summons AI makes half the items, imo, useless

When I look at the available pool of non-sentry weapons here is what I see:

Slime Staff/Spider Staff = Same AI. Highly aggressive and useful (Slime becomes obsolete once you get to Expert of above diff)
Imp Staff/Deadly Spear Staff = Also nice. Lower than other DPS due to the time it takes for them to hit a target
Xeno Staff = Why bother with anything else? They hit in the blink of an eye, never miss, and move back to 'protect' the summoner after each kill

I have excluded Sanguine, Desert Tiger, and Terraprisma only because I haven't used them yet. If they are anything like the other new items I won't bother.

What happens with the AI is commonly summons will attempt to target creatures they can't hit, then miss. Or, like the Stardust Dragon, do things like attack creatures that aren't even on the screen and forget about creatures closer to you. What is lacking from most is the aggressiveness and the delay it takes between targeting and hitting creatures. The number of summons isn't a problem not even before 1.4. The damage is also not lacking.

I do agree with the armor being low but you shouldn't be close to creatures anyways as a summoner, think of whips, so evading/dodging is more of a tool in the kit than using a weapon. This however, goes completely out the window in Master Mode as some monsters can one hit kill you if your armor is too weak, like a summoner.

Once I read the bit about the bossman saying that Summoners were never meant to be a standalone class of their own and more of a subclass all of it became clear.

Summoners suck for a reason, and it's intentional. I have played summoner only before, after hardmode of course I don't feel like taking forever to do anything, and it was primarily for the challenge. That goes away however once you get geared up even well before killing the Lunatic Cultist. Then things get way too easy.
 

Guest735

Terrarian
The 1.4 update improved a lot summoners, buffing summoner staffs and armors, adding new staffs and adding the new type of summoner weapon: whips, that are amazing. But summoners are still the worse class in the game, despiste being great against enemies and horde of enemies, they have a terrible disadvantage against bosses, their low defense, limited range even with ranged minions and the way minions work against bosses and other fast moving targets. But i've got some small ideas that could greatly improve summoner and make it stand at least a normal chance against bosses

-summoner staff targeting rework: when holding the right mouse button, besides setting a target for your minions to attack, it would also make minions attack in the direction of the cursor, physical minions will go toward the cursor while ranged minions will shoot in direction to the cursor, no matter if there's an enemy or not, making staffs an actual ranged option for summoner since they have none, even melee has some ranged weapons and swords that shoots ranged beams, this would make it way easier to hit a boss almost like if we were using a ranged weapon, and also would make summoner staffs able to be used as actual weapons, the same effect would be applied to turret staffs

-one of these options:
>summoner armor having more defense than mage at least: as mentioned before summoner is even less ranged than melee and somehow has the worst defense in the game between all classes, so i guess that it would make sense to make summoner armors have more defense than mage armors from the same tier at least
>make it so the less the defense of a class the higher is it's mobility comparing to others: so if it's either resisting moreor having to dodge more make dodging easier, not just vertical mobility(speed) but also a little of horizontal speed(like jump heigh and jump speed) it could keep summoner as the class with less defense as it kinda that makes sense for him to have the smaller defense due to his army of minions but also highest mobility making he more able to retreat while being covered by his minions

-make ranged minions able to attack while flying to the player and make they able to attack enemies off screen: this is another problem that doesn't fit any single bit with summoner's current defense as it forces summoner to be less in movement and stay closer to the target, and this is also a problem because any movement can cause your minions to stop attacking and start flying to you, and landminions won't stop until summoner gets on a ground, i don't get why terraria devs expect players to fight bosses by standing completely idle like a statue with shroomite armor, shiny stone, health regen and ranged minions, who in saint conscious would stand completely idle whitout even attacking during a boss fight?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! also the increase of range is to make summoner more ranged

-more summoner acessories before plantera: summoner acessories besides emblem are only acessible after plantera has been defeated, and it's 3 at the same time, couldn't any of them be sold by witch doctor before plantera? and some new summoner acessories available from early hardmode like a new biome mimic drop, titan hand and it's upgrades technically are good for summoner too but are not summoner specific acessories, i also think that there should be an avenger emblem upgrade for summoner, there's mechanical grove for melee, sniper scope for ranger(despiste the fact that it don't affect ranger exclusively but it's zooming ability only works with a gun) and celestial emblem for mage, why not a papyrus scarab or pygmy necklace upgrade with avenger emblem for summoner?

-give special set bonuses for more hardmode summoner armors: i don't get why most hardmode summoner armors have their set bonus just as summoner/minion stat boosts when all armors for the other classes from the same tier have special set bonuses such as hardmode ore armors, turtle, spectre, shroomite and beetle, the only summoner armors with special set bonuses are forbidden, hallowed and stardust, but for the first two it's because they're not just summoner armors, forbidden is a mix of mage and summoner and hallowed has the same set bonus for any headset choosen for it, and stardust is already the endgame armor(also forbidden is completely garbage, stupid glass defense and the sandstorm is completely useless specially against bosses due to the fact of standing still and dealing low damage).
my ideas of new set bonuses for hardmode summoner armor sets are:
>spider: launches spider eggs with whips that are the same projectiles from spider queen turret: inflicts venom debuff and spawn little spiders to attack enemies
>tiki: has a totem head following all the time, being an obvious reference to crash bandicoot, not much sure about what could it do, the totem head is an armor set minion that don't use minion slot
>spooky: minions and whips inflict a fire debuff on enemies and the summoner itself releases damaging bats when damaged

other changes that aren't really necessary but i think that they would be cool additions to the game:
-making vampire frog and sanguine staff actually legit for their names, making they able to life leech enemies and heal the own summoner when they attack: making vampire frog a worth minion to farm that could be userfull even during mechanicals and for sanguine it might should reduce a little the damage dealt by the staff.

-new endgame whip, spaceworm whip: a possible drop from moonlord, it has the appearence of a giant alien worm with a moonlord like tongue, reminding moonlord's tongue, i'm not much sure about the effect it would have when hitting an enemy with it but would be something special, not just an endgame version of snapthorn/durendal or mourning star/kaleidoscope

-eater staff and creeper staff: new endgame pre-hardmode summoner staffs, the eater staff is the corruption counterpart, having a chance to be dropped from EoW, it's like of a pre-hardmode version of the stardust dragon, with each additional minion actually being a new segment for the eater minion, but instead of floating everywhere it's affected by gravity and can only move inside blocks and comes out to attack enemies, just like worm enemies, whenever it can't reach the player it'll extend fins similar to eater of souls and fly in direction the player; the crimson counterpart is the creeper staff, that's like of a pre-hardmode version of the sanguine staff, summons BoC creeper minions that attacks by going to the target and coming back to the player, slower than sanguine and not being able to pass through walls; both these staffs can be used up to WoF and even during early hardmode until the player gets a hardmode summoner staff
I think that summoner only needs an easier first weapon for those who prefer to play only with the summoner class in the current play, playing with only summoner from beginning to end can be an additional challenge because of the fact that this class was made to be a sub-class, I think the work needed to make it a more powerful class to make it easier for new players is too late to do at the update point where the game is already (almost at the end).
The details of the whole game have already been done thinking this way: class summoner is just a sub-class (the player must use something more to fight, like weapons of other classes).
 
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Mental Mouse

Terrarian
Banneker: the Sanguine staff is really nice, with the bats continuously moving out to attack enemies, then when they're done they come back to follow you until a new target shows up. iirc Terraprisma has similar behavior.
 
I think that summoner only needs an easier first weapon for those who prefer to play only with the summoner class in the current play, playing with only summoner from beginning to end can be an additional challenge...The details of the whole game have already been done thinking this way: class summoner is just a sub-class (the player must use something more to fight, like weapons of other classes).
Also, I think it's important to note that Summoners' awkward progression path, isn't a justification for it being a side-Class of sorts, or to justify it being arguably bad (which it isn't). As far as side, alternative or sub-Classes are concerned, Summoner in Terraria is pretty well-developed when compared to other games (Terraria isn't even strict about it, you can make almost anything effective if you want). The Forbidden Armor & DD2 Armors continue that trend in the Class being a hybrid, so the Developers were at-the-very-least consistent. What's even more impressive is that Summoner Class doesn't suddenly fall apart if you're going for a purist build either, again, unlike other games.

That's why I keep trying to make it clear that Summoner doesn't need more stuff, it already has everything else every other Class has, plus Minions. 🤷‍♂️🍹

Banneker: the Sanguine staff is really nice, with the bats continuously moving out to attack enemies, then when they're done they come back to follow you until a new target shows up. iirc Terraprisma has similar behavior.
In my opinion, I find Sanguine Staff & Twins Staff to be about the same in level/ tier. If you can't get a Sanguine Staff right away, just go ahead & kill the Twins for the Minions & Armor upgrade. I thought I should also note that, a combination of both Twins & Blade Staff Minions, in my opinion, Sanguine Staff won't be missed (3 Blades/ 2 Twins). 🤷‍♂️🍹
 

Guest735

Terrarian
That's why I keep trying to make it clear that Summoner doesn't need more stuff, it already has everything else every other Class has, plus Minions. 🤷‍♂️🍹
Don't you also think that an easier and more guaranteed way to get the first summon weapon in a single world should be added?
I mean the cases of playing only with the summoner class and using only one world (without jumping from one world to another in search of the finch staff, and without completing the bestiary enough to get the whip, and this all without a weapon).
 

Mental Mouse

Terrarian
That's why I keep trying to make it clear that Summoner doesn't need more stuff, it already has everything else every other Class has, plus Minions. 🤷‍♂️🍹

In my opinion, I find Sanguine Staff & Twins Staff to be about the same in level/ tier. If you can't get a Sanguine Staff right away, just go ahead & kill the Twins for the Minions & Armor upgrade. I thought I should also note that, a combination of both Twins & Blade Staff Minions, in my opinion, Sanguine Staff won't be missed (3 Blades/ 2 Twins). 🤷‍♂️🍹
I actually haven’t made a twins staff yet In 1.4, because I wanted lots of sensors, but I remember them as being remarkably cranky about getting stuck in nooks and behind walls. The sanguine staff still doesn’t necessarily go after targets that are outside when you’re inside, but it does go through blocks rather casually, and doesn’t get stuck anywhere. I haven’t gotten a Blade staff yet, and that might be a while.

And yeah, I mostly use summons in addition to a regular class — currently I’m using Squire Armor and lovin' it, — I get to use my Code 2 and True Night's Edge/Terra Blade, plus get regen support and 3 sentries, and a couple (Bewitching Table) of sanguine bats to boot. Once I beat Plantera I might see about A more summon-centric loadout.
 
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pigman065

Skeletron
Don't you also think that an easier and more guaranteed way to get the first summon weapon in a single world should be added?
If you really want an easier way to get the first summon, use these plugins in Terraria Tweaker 2 to add a Slime Staff recipe (5 fallen stars, 30 gel and 20 wood) almost full credit goes to @Gaelyte (I only changed Crafting to be a Slime Staff recipe plugin and got rid of two bugs in RecipeHelper). I also recommend using it to buff the Finch slightly, so as not to negate it from its reason for existence.
 

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Mental Mouse

Terrarian
Don't you also think that an easier and more guaranteed way to get the first summon weapon in a single world should be added?
mmm... I don't know if it's really necessary. Right now, melee starts up easiest, and ranged almost as fast. But magic takes more time, and I can see summoner being the next in line, generally having to fight for a Vampire Frog.

That said, finch and slime staffs are both stupid-rare for such weak weapons, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to have a somewhat more common early summon, One of those or in the same class. Even putting finch staves into the sky chest/crate pool would get them out a bit earlier.
 

Guest735

Terrarian
If you really want an easier way to get the first summon, use these plugins in Terraria Tweaker 2 to add a Slime Staff recipe (5 fallen stars, 30 gel and 20 wood) almost full credit goes to @Gaelyte (I only changed Crafting to be a Slime Staff recipe plugin and got rid of two bugs in RecipeHelper). I also recommend using it to buff the Finch slightly, so as not to negate it from its reason for existence.
I mean the game without mods, I don't use mods blindly, especially those that make the game easier.
Slime Staff recipe (5 fallen stars, 30 gel and 20 wood)
And how would i get 30 gel without a first weapon and with only summoner gameplay, attracting the slimes to the npc guide kill them? :mad:
 
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Don't you also think that an easier and more guaranteed way to get the first summon weapon in a single world should be added?
I mean the cases of playing only with the summoner class and using only one world (without jumping from one world to another in search of the finch staff, and without completing the bestiary enough to get the whip, and this all without a weapon).
You can actually, just play with a Journey Mode Character. You start out with both Fledgling Wings & a Finch Staff. In fact, in Journey Mode, you won't need to do nearly as much grinding, farming or fishing either. You can even make a Blood Moon, Pumpkin Moon or Frost Moon last as long as you'd like! If a person is dead-set on being a Summoner, right from the gate, there you have it, no Mods required! 😁🍹

I actually haven’t made a twins staff yet In 1.4, because I wanted lots of sensors, but I remember them as being remarkably cranky about getting stuck in nooks and behind walls. The sanguine staff still doesn’t necessarily go after targets that are outside when you’re inside, but it does go through blocks rather casually, and doesn’t get stuck anywhere. I haven’t gotten a Blade staff yet, and that might be a while.
That's why Blade Staff & Twins Staff are so good together, they compliment & compensate for the others' weaknesses. Twins have good range & Blades are aggressive & have better tracking. In addition, Blades make it easier for Twins to hit, because Blades have pretty decent knockback. You have to try it yourself to really get a good feel for what I mean.

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And yeah, I mostly use summons in addition to a regular class — currently I’m using Squire Armor and lovin' it, — I get to use my Code 2 and True Night's Edge/Terra Blade, plus get regen support and 3 sentries, and a couple (Bewitching Table) of sanguine bats to boot. Once I beat Plantera I might see about A more summon-centric loadout.
I keep trying to tell Terrarians that the DD2 Armors are some of the most fun you'll have in this game, but they're still somehow convinced that Summoners don't have options. With the proper set-up, you can be incredibly overpowered in this game, before even killing all the other Mech Bosses. 🤷‍♂️🍹
 

pigman065

Skeletron
I keep trying to tell Terrarians that the DD2 Armors are some of the most fun you'll have in this game, but they're still somehow convinced that Summoners don't have options. With the proper set-up, you can be incredibly overpowered in this game, before even killing all the other Mech Bosses. 🤷‍♂️🍹
But the Tier 2 DD event is harder than the Mechs...
 

Banmei

Terrarian
You can actually, just play with a Journey Mode Character. You start out with both Fledgling Wings & a Finch Staff. In fact, in Journey Mode, you won't need to do nearly as much grinding, farming or fishing either. You can even make a Blood Moon, Pumpkin Moon or Frost Moon last as long as you'd like! If a person is dead-set on being a Summoner, right from the gate, there you have it, no Mods required! 😁🍹
You could also use a mod that creates items out of thin air. I tend to stay away from absolutes like this one but im sorry, anyone who tries to legitimately argue that starting as a summoner is reasonable and achievable in this game is merely debating for the sake of debating.

Pre 1.4 and now 1.4 are still the same in the aspect that you have practically nothing before the Queen Bee. Even then, the only drops I make use of weapons wise from the Queen have nothing to do with summoning. You practically need advanced gear to get the vampire frog and I am currently playing in a world with no living trees. Typically by the time you become a competent summoner pre-hardmode it's time to take on the WoF then it's only a short walk afterwards til you get spider equipment and all that work becomes worthless.

I will not argue that the summoner can become extremely powerful. It can become the most powerful in the game if you ask me (barring usage of items such as Zenith). But when is the problem. Both the finch staff and slime staff are so incredibly weak there is no reason not to make them easier to get.

What is needed are recommendations like what the OP made. The dawning reality though is that this is not agreed upon by the developers. Don't know why, I see many of the additions and it gives me the impression like the intent is there. The blazing hoops they have gone through to negate some of the grinding in the game before 1.4 kind of makes me wonder why such effort is not spent on things lacking, like the summoner. Everyone has their own ideas for solutions I suppose, just as do you.
 
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