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Tobbvald's Tinkering

Lord Nagaviper

Terrarian
If we currently have four evils in the works, and the throwing class gets expanded into a full-out class, that would mean 5 classes, with 5 pillars, with 5 dungeons, and a fifth alternate evil... I can't wrap my head around this anymore.
 

Tovlyn

Skeletron Prime
If we currently have four evils in the works, and the throwing class gets expanded into a full-out class, that would mean 5 classes, with 5 pillars, with 5 dungeons, and a fifth alternate evil... I can't wrap my head around this anymore.
Considering how cluttered the game has become with just four more or less equally large classes, I'd rather the game made Throwing a sub-type to melee, similar to how explosives, bullets and arrows are all subtypes of ranger. That'd be the wiser choice anyways since thrower vanishes in HM.
 

Lord Nagaviper

Terrarian
Considering how cluttered the game has become with just four more or less equally large classes, I'd rather the game made Throwing a sub-type to melee, similar to how explosives, bullets and arrows are all subtypes of ranger. That'd be the wiser choice anyways since thrower vanishes in HM.

That's exactly what I was thinking, throwing will only complicate the whole game, plus the boomerang, flails etc. are basically throwing items. Anyway, due to this conundrum, I'm currently working on a suggestion that aims to fill in the gaps during pre-hardmode, and I'm using Tobbvald's Tinkering (and Zoomo's threads) to help me out. Mind if I link your suggestions in the final post?
 
Considering how cluttered the game has become with just four more or less equally large classes, I'd rather the game made Throwing a sub-type to melee, similar to how explosives, bullets and arrows are all subtypes of ranger. That'd be the wiser choice anyways since thrower vanishes in HM.
I definitely agree throwing is a sub-type but if that's the case then shouldn't it benefit from the warrior emblem and other melee bonuses?

On a different note I feel like throwing is to melee as summoner is to mage while ranged gets the various gimmicky weapons (sandgun) and rocket/explosive weapons. The fourth evil thing just doesn't seem right because terraria is a game where 3 is the magic number. 3 Mechs, 3 Hardmode Ores, 3 Easymode Ores (Iron/Lead are a league of their own), 3 Classes, 3 Original Bosses, Etc. But once I see this new evil biome I'll probably be convinced regardless~:).

I do support the idea of 3 different hells; perhaps the traditional is Corruption; a fleshy variant (think the Womb/Utero in Binding of Isaac) for the Crimson; and perhaps a shadowy eerie, sickly variant filled with shadows and lost souls for the Contagion.
 

Tovlyn

Skeletron Prime
I definitely agree throwing is a sub-type but if that's the case then shouldn't it benefit from the warrior emblem and other melee bonuses?

On a different note I feel like throwing is to melee as summoner is to mage while ranged gets the various gimmicky weapons (sandgun) and rocket/explosive weapons. The fourth evil thing just doesn't seem right because terraria is a game where 3 is the magic number. 3 Mechs, 3 Hardmode Ores, 3 Easymode Ores (Iron/Lead are a league of their own), 3 Classes, 3 Original Bosses, Etc. But once I see this new evil biome I'll probably be convinced regardless~:).

I do support the idea of 3 different hells; perhaps the traditional is Corruption; a fleshy variant (think the Womb/Utero in Binding of Isaac) for the Crimson; and perhaps a shadowy eerie, sickly variant filled with shadows and lost souls for the Contagion.
Well, 3 used to be the magic number, But 1.3 changed this entirely. Have you even seen the late-game? 4 is definitely a far more relevant number now. The 3 mechs would become 4 if each evil boss was given a mechanical version even without my other suggested biomes, and there's actually 2 sets of 3 HM ores. And I'd definitely say that regardless of application, there are 4 tiers of earlymode ore, with equipment and all. And come 1.3, four recognized classes. Summoner goes all the way from early game to late game, and it even has its own emblem. 4 original bosses counting King Slime, since I presume you forgot about him.

I dunno, the continuity isn't as strong as the magic number 3 used to be, but Terraria is now about the four different colors and the classes they represent, so it's our job as suggesters to make this new continuity as thorough as the old one.
 
Well, 3 used to be the magic number, But 1.3 changed this entirely. Have you even seen the late-game? 4 is definitely a far more relevant number now. The 3 mechs would become 4 if each evil boss was given a mechanical version even without my other suggested biomes, and there's actually 2 sets of 3 HM ores. And I'd definitely say that regardless of application, there are 4 tiers of earlymode ore, with equipment and all. And come 1.3, four recognized classes. Summoner goes all the way from early game to late game, and it even has its own emblem. 4 original bosses counting King Slime, since I presume you forgot about him.

I dunno, the continuity isn't as strong as the magic number 3 used to be, but Terraria is now about the four different colors and the classes they represent, so it's our job as suggesters to make this new continuity as thorough as the old one.

Now that you mention it; 4 is definitely the new magic number, mostly due to the presence of 4 pillars. The only problem I have is that the summoner class still needs some fleshing out, Pre-HM especially. Hopefully you get around to fixing that and adding some more early summoner weapons and gear.
 
Now that you mention it; 4 is definitely the new magic number, mostly due to the presence of 4 pillars. The only problem I have is that the summoner class still needs some fleshing out, Pre-HM especially. Hopefully you get around to fixing that and adding some more early summoner weapons and gear.
Agreed, Summoner is becoming more and more viable as time goes on, but it still needs some expansion before it's truly a usable class for players that aren't Yrimir.

I also have to agree with the sentiment of throwing being a subset of melee, as one could argue that otherwise Daybreak and the Scourge of the Corruptor should ABSOLUTELY be throwing weapons, as they're both javelins (even if they're infinite), not to mention boomerangs. Flails, however, are a weird gray area and I wouldn't file them under throwing as actually using them is way more involved than just throwing them. If anything, Twilight Princess's depiction of using them is way more accurate than Terraria's.
 

Tovlyn

Skeletron Prime
Hello everyone. I've begun questioning my decision to make a new pair of biomes, since the patterns are so vague and can be deciphered in a number of ways. I'm beginning to think that it wouldn't be doing my threads any favor to so swiftly disregard such old and established themes as the ones I worked with.

The two schools of thought both involve the new progression: The Lunar Event. In order to not spoil more than is already said officially it involves four colors rather than three. Regardless of theory I'm confident that the Moon Lord is in some way related to the evils that were spread across the lands, and since he himself holds no real similarity to any of the biomes I think he were the one to spread the evils in the first place.

My original way to respond to this was to come up with a fourth pair of biomes, but this can be questioned since the only real reason for this is presented in the very end of the game- no previous part of the game suggests it, and all the old patterns have remained unchanged.

This leads to the other interpretation: That the connection between master and pet ends there. The pillars and their guardians hold no physical similarity the evils other than color (even this connection is very loose), and one could argue that this is evidence enough to not go through with my original idea.

Either way I still have a lot of things to go through in this season of TT, so don't think this decision will determine the magnitude of it all. In the end every alt is simply filler. What's important here is the fine balance between variation and overkill.

0cHjutS.png

This is where you guys come in. I'd like some opinions on what you think seems more reasonable. I will most likely call back the initiative to make a new pairing and instead do something else that will most likely fill the role a lot better, but I want people's opinions and speculations first, and what better place to gather them than here?

(I may end up making this fourth pair anyways because I am really satisfied with how it's turning out so far, but that will wait until muuuuch later).
 
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Eli10293

Spazmatism
Hello everyone. I've begun questioning my decision to making a new pair of biomes, since the patterns are so vague and can be deciphered in a number of ways. I'm beginning to think that it wouldn't be doing my threads any favor to so swiftly disregard such old and established themes as the ones I worked with.

The two schools of thought both involve the new progression: The Lunar Event. In order to not spoil more than is already said officially it involves four colors rather than three. Regardless of theory I'm confident that the Moon Lord is in some way related to the evils that were spread across the lands, and since he himself holds no real similarity to any of the biomes I think he were the one to spread the evils in the first place.

My original way to respond to this was to come up with a fourth pair of biomes, but this can be questioned since the only real reason for this is presented in the very end of the game- no previous part of the game suggests it, and all the old patterns have remained unchanged.

This leads to the other interpretation: That the connection between master and pet ends there. The pillars and their guardians hold no physical similarity the evils other than color (even this connection is very loose), and one could argue that this is evidence enough to not go through with my original idea.

Either way I still have a lot of things to go through in this season of TT, so don't think this decision will determine the magnitude of it all. In the end every alt is simply filler. What's important here is the fine balance between variation and overkill.

0cHjutS.png

This is where you guys come in. I'd like some opinions on what you think seems more reasonable. I will most likely call back the initiative to make a new pairing and instead do something else that will most likely fill the role a lot better, but I want people's opinions and speculations first, and what better place to gather them than here?

(I may end up making this fourth pair anyways because I am really satisfied with how it's turning out so far, but that will wait until muuuuch later).
Yay more tobbvald threads :D
 

Vikri

Empress of Light
Hello everyone. I've begun questioning my decision to making a new pair of biomes, since the patterns are so vague and can be deciphered in a number of ways. I'm beginning to think that it wouldn't be doing my threads any favor to so swiftly disregard such old and established themes as the ones I worked with.

The two schools of thought both involve the new progression: The Lunar Event. In order to not spoil more than is already said officially it involves four colors rather than three. Regardless of theory I'm confident that the Moon Lord is in some way related to the evils that were spread across the lands, and since he himself holds no real similarity to any of the biomes I think he were the one to spread the evils in the first place.

My original way to respond to this was to come up with a fourth pair of biomes, but this can be questioned since the only real reason for this is presented in the very end of the game- no previous part of the game suggests it, and all the old patterns have remained unchanged.

This leads to the other interpretation: That the connection between master and pet ends there. The pillars and their guardians hold no physical similarity the evils other than color (even this connection is very loose), and one could argue that this is evidence enough to not go through with my original idea.

Either way I still have a lot of things to go through in this season of TT, so don't think this decision will determine the magnitude of it all. In the end every alt is simply filler. What's important here is the fine balance between variation and overkill.

0cHjutS.png

This is where you guys come in. I'd like some opinions on what you think seems more reasonable. I will most likely call back the initiative to make a new pairing and instead do something else that will most likely fill the role a lot better, but I want people's opinions and speculations first, and what better place to gather them than here?

(I may end up making this fourth pair anyways because I am really satisfied with how it's turning out so far, but that will wait until muuuuch later).
Terraria is a good game gameplay-wise, but if it even has something close to lore, then its most likely the biggest mess ever. I guess we will have to wait for Terraria 2, it might not be a total mess.
 

Tovlyn

Skeletron Prime
Terraria is a good game gameplay-wise, but if it even has something close to lore, then its most likely the biggest mess ever. I guess we will have to wait for Terraria 2, it might not be a total mess.
Oh it has lore, it's just a matter of interpretation. That's the beauty of it. The lore I think it has can differ greatly from what others, probably even the devs think is going on, it's a matter up for discussion and I love it. Half the fun with being a suggester for this game is studying how the game handles its own logic and act upon it in a similar fashion. The other half is visualizing your take on it.
 

Vikri

Empress of Light
Oh it has lore, it's just a matter of interpretation. That's the beauty of it. The lore I think it has can differ greatly from what others, probably even the devs think is going on, it's a matter up for discussion and I love it. Half the fun with being a suggester for this game is studying how the game handles its own logic and act upon it in a similar fashion. The other half is visualizing your take on it.
My take on the lore is that moon lord (cthulhus brother) got jelly and tore cthulhu apart. His corpse became crimson and his eye forever seaching for his traitorous brother.
The crimson over many years rotted away and became the corruption and then eventually the torment. Moon lord threw most humans into the dungeon out of fear that they might get powerful. Only few managed to hide from him, most now being known as the lihzahrd. Fortunately moon lord left Terraria, he created other planets, such as the moon. It was NOW he was known as the moon lord.The lihzahrd built a powerful temple and locked themselves in. They then worshipped the sun as it is the opposite of the moon. They also created advanced traps for if he came back. Over the many years they were locked in, they realized that they forgot the key outside (now plantera has it). The people that didnt hide nor die, were the followers of moon lord (Clothier being one of them (He made the cultists clothes)).
 
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Orithan

Eye of Cthulhu
I don't think an extra set of biomes would still do justice. Even with the Moon Lord and the four pillars, the game's magic number is still 3 because it is still present everywhere. From the Dungeons to the RGB pattern in the Hardmode ores to the three main classes to the three mechanical bosses, three is still the magic number with only the Moon Lord and the pillars breaking away from it for the sake of catering to Summoning on top of the other classes.
Maybe it would make sense if Ranged gets a sub-class (Explosives perhaps?) in much the same way as Throwing and Summoning are to their respective classes, and use that to tie down the lore behind the game.
 

zimberzimber

Terrarian

I don't think an extra set of biomes would still do justice. Even with the Moon Lord and the four pillars, the game's magic number is still 3 because it is still present everywhere. From the Dungeons to the RGB pattern in the Hardmode ores to the three main classes to the three mechanical bosses, three is still the magic number with only the Moon Lord and the pillars breaking away from it for the sake of catering to Summoning on top of the other classes.
Maybe it would make sense if Ranged gets a sub-class (Explosives perhaps?) in much the same way as Throwing and Summoning are to their respective classes, and use that to tie down the lore behind the game.
So basically-
Melee > Throwing
Magic > Summoner
Ranged > Demolition(?)
 

Tovlyn

Skeletron Prime
I don't think an extra set of biomes would still do justice. Even with the Moon Lord and the four pillars, the game's magic number is still 3 because it is still present everywhere. From the Dungeons to the RGB pattern in the Hardmode ores to the three main classes to the three mechanical bosses, three is still the magic number with only the Moon Lord and the pillars breaking away from it for the sake of catering to Summoning on top of the other classes.
Maybe it would make sense if Ranged gets a sub-class (Explosives perhaps?) in much the same way as Throwing and Summoning are to their respective classes, and use that to tie down the lore behind the game.
Glad to hear you agree with me on this.

Ranged already has 3 subclasses though, at least come shroomite: demolitionist, gunner and archer, but demo is by far the least touched upon. This could change though...

I have plans for Thrower as well.

And yes, I have realized that the pillars are more there to represent the four classes, which I don't want to reduce further. Summoner is more than justified as its own class at this point, on the contrary I want to see it even further expanded. I don't think the magic number needs to be involved in that particular area of the game, seeing how nicely everything fits into the picture so far. It'll all make sense later once I actually make the threads but rest assured that my main focus on this season, regardless of extra biomes or not, was always meant to be the four classes.
 
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I had a feeling you would post something like this, as there is a lot of confusion between the pattern of 3 or the pattern of 4. Personally I don't think another set of biomes really makes any sense or fits in.

The number 3 is still the most prevalent in Terraria by far. 3 Different Color of Dungeons, 3 Mechanical Bosses, 3 Hardmode Ores and 3 Main Classes (Summoner is a class but let's be honest, it does not rival either ranged, melee or magic. It is also a mostly late-game niche class as evident of its exclusion from the standard hardmode ore-tiered armors). But for me the strongest presence of 3 is the trifecta of light, dark and purity.

I don't think keeping only 3 original parallels should restrict the growth of new classes (or subclasses) {Endgame events reflect more the classes than evil-light symbology}. But I also feel you should keep it at 3 original parallels to keep it manageable and make sense within the Terrarian Universe and the symbology of 3. It just feels as though a FOURTH parallel is redundant at this point. But Tobvald, you never cease to convince me, so perhaps that is to change.

As for your fourth parallel of dark and light, I say it should be some sort of bonus, additional content not related to Ria and the likes of other objects/events tieing the three evils together. Perhaps only available after beating the final boss or a secret post-final boss? A good analogy for this is the Bundle of Balloons. It includes 3 of the most important (prevalent if not for the problem of pyramids that should be more abundant) balloon/in-a-bottle combos but lacks the rare/joke Fart in a Balloon and the gimmicky/alternate playstyle Sharkron Balloon.

On an unrelated note; more alts! Alts for every biome should exist though I don't think they should all be tied to the dark-light parallels. However it does make sense for the variants of the Underworld to be tied to the present evil biome. Alts for the Jungle/Snow/Desert/Dungeon should remain independent of the parallels. As for the purity (Forest/Underground), I have no idea whether its alts should be tied to the evil.

Good luck!
 

Grand Paladin Tyrux

Empress of Light
Hello everyone. I've begun questioning my decision to make a new pair of biomes, since the patterns are so vague and can be deciphered in a number of ways. I'm beginning to think that it wouldn't be doing my threads any favor to so swiftly disregard such old and established themes as the ones I worked with.

The two schools of thought both involve the new progression: The Lunar Event. In order to not spoil more than is already said officially it involves four colors rather than three. Regardless of theory I'm confident that the Moon Lord is in some way related to the evils that were spread across the lands, and since he himself holds no real similarity to any of the biomes I think he were the one to spread the evils in the first place.

My original way to respond to this was to come up with a fourth pair of biomes, but this can be questioned since the only real reason for this is presented in the very end of the game- no previous part of the game suggests it, and all the old patterns have remained unchanged.

This leads to the other interpretation: That the connection between master and pet ends there. The pillars and their guardians hold no physical similarity the evils other than color (even this connection is very loose), and one could argue that this is evidence enough to not go through with my original idea.

Either way I still have a lot of things to go through in this season of TT, so don't think this decision will determine the magnitude of it all. In the end every alt is simply filler. What's important here is the fine balance between variation and overkill.

0cHjutS.png

This is where you guys come in. I'd like some opinions on what you think seems more reasonable. I will most likely call back the initiative to make a new pairing and instead do something else that will most likely fill the role a lot better, but I want people's opinions and speculations first, and what better place to gather them than here?

(I may end up making this fourth pair anyways because I am really satisfied with how it's turning out so far, but that will wait until muuuuch later).

I think 3 should remain prevalent. 3 represents the 3 dungeons, 3 mech bosses, 3 sets of biomes, and as was said, Light, Dark and Purity. I like to think of the new pattern of four as the 'Celestial' pattern, while the old one is the 'Terra' pattern. The sets of four are all based on celestials, the cosmos, space. The Terra pattern on the other hand is all based around the core elements of the world/island/planet of Terraria. I've actually been thinking about making a big suggestion/jumble of ideas for four planets as you see in the sky behind each pillar to travel too, as well as the moon (which represents the 5th celestial element, Phantasm, as shown by the Moon Lord), and Mars, the homeworld of the Martians.

TL;DR - Celestial Pattern is crazy space stuff and should stay separate from the Terra Pattern. Maybe link up this new set of biomes with space, or have them spawn post-Moon Lord, if you still include them, but overall I think the two patterns should stay separated.
 

652Graystripe

Plantera
I don't feel that it's necessary to make a new pair of biomes. After all, everything - three dungeons, three Hardmode ores, etc. - says "three." Even so, they have no correlation to any of the pillars at all. Note that all of the alternate evils (my name for the Hallow/Covert/Cyber) have a magic tome, and all of the evils have an armor loosely themed around melee. There's not one biome that says "mage," or "ranger," or "melee." Given that the Crimson and later the Contagion were designed to be polar opposites, they had exactly the same amount of gear in them (with a few discrepancies that were later fixed, e.g. Shadow Orb).

If each evil were tuned to a certain class, that would allow the game to dictate what you do and how you play. I don't feel like that's the best choice at all.

A final, lore-based version: if you think about it, the pillars are extraterrestrial, as is the Moon Lord. They have no correlation to the world of Terraria except for some ne'er-do-well adventurer who wants to poke 'em with a big stick.
 

Lord Nagaviper

Terrarian
The patterns are becoming much more difficult to pull apart and work with now. For the majority of the game, we have a pattern of 3, as everyone above me has stated. By the end of the game there's a clear pattern of 4. And now, the devs are trying to pull off a pattern of 5 with the throwing class. I've been trying hard to find a way to tie all of these patterns together somehow, by limiting the influence throwing class has on the patterns and filling up various holes in different equipment tiers/adding new tiers, but it's becoming pretty disorganized. Unless they added a 4th hardmode ore, a 4th color pattern, etc., there comes a slight issue with continuity.

Part of me wants a fourth evil, because it'd complete a lot of other patterns (4 main classes, 4 pillars, 4 easy-mode ores, 4 niche armors) and won't be that hard to fix the old patterns of three, but then it seems kind of redundant. Regardless, I can't wait to see what you've got planned.
 
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