Console Console 1.3 - An Update on Timing

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Inb4 the usual suspects run in to remind everyone that development takes time. Y'know, just in case you weren't aware.

Spring
2018
Prove me wrong

With the stores seemingly being prepped and (apparently) the devs sounding pretty confident I'm seeing it being either a late spring/early summer.

I'm Aussie by the way, so for the people over the other side of the world it'd be a Autum/winter
 
However, since anyone who owned the game on last gen consoles had to buy a new copy on current gen, just for this update, then they have an obligation to those customers to keep them updated.
I agree with the sentiments behind your post, but I don't agree with this point. When you purchase a game they owe you whatever was advertised in that store when you bought it. Whatever promises of future bonuses mean nothing. While I'm sure a lot of people went out and upgraded their copy of Terraria in anticipation of this patch, your purchase does not entitle you to the update or any information about it. You got exactly what you paid for.

That said they did publicly promise the update was coming, so I do think they are obligated to live up to that and deliver the content. I'm going to be rather disappointed if another delay is announced. To me that wouldn't sound any different from how 505 and Engine were handling the consoles, hyping things far ahead of its time.
 
I agree with the sentiments behind your post, but I don't agree with this point. When you purchase a game they owe you whatever was advertised in that store when you bought it. Whatever promises of future bonuses mean nothing. While I'm sure a lot of people went out and upgraded their copy of Terraria in anticipation of this patch, your purchase does not entitle you to the update or any information about it. You got exactly what you paid for.

That said they did publicly promise the update was coming, so I do think they are obligated to live up to that and deliver the content. I'm going to be rather disappointed if another delay is announced. To me that wouldn't sound any different from how 505 and Engine were handling the consoles, hyping things far ahead of its time.


We will have to continue to disagree on this point.

"Our current target delivery for the Reset+1.3 is Q2 2017. All of this will be absolutely free to existing Current Gen Console Terraria owners (Old Gen players will have to purchase a Current Gen copy)."

When they specifically state that you have to purchase a new copy in order to play through new content, then they have an obigation to have that content available in a timely fashion to those who make that purchase. Otherwise, there is no reason to make the purchase in the first place. Players could save the money and play the same content on the version they already have.
 
We will have to continue to disagree on this point.

"Our current target delivery for the Reset+1.3 is Q2 2017. All of this will be absolutely free to existing Current Gen Console Terraria owners (Old Gen players will have to purchase a Current Gen copy)."

When they specifically state that you have to purchase a new copy in order to play through new content, then they have an obigation to have that content available in a timely fashion to those who make that purchase. Otherwise, there is no reason to make the purchase in the first place. Players could save the money and play the same content on the version they already have.
How so? Release estimates are by no means binding, legal or otherwise. There is no drawback to buying the game after it has been updated as opposed to before, so if you 'pay for updates' ahead of time, that's on you.

Besides, any purchase you make of any product is 'as is'. If you buy a game but are not content (enough) to play it in its current form, you shouldn't have bought it.
 
How so? Release estimates are by no means binding, legal or otherwise. There is no drawback to buying the game after it has been updated as opposed to before, so if you 'pay for updates' ahead of time, that's on you.

Besides, any purchase you make of any product is 'as is'. If you buy a game but are not content (enough) to play it in its current form, you shouldn't have bought it.


So your saying they have absolutely no requirements to provide the customers who bought their product with the content they advertised for said product. Take a look at no mans sky and see how their fan base reacted in a similar situation. Thats one of the main problems. No one is holding them accountable for the delays. Every single negetive comment has someone appear and try to justify or excuse them. And so here we sit, months later, and still no new relevent information. If you feel that they had no obligation to update in a timely fashion, or keeps us informed on the timing, thats on you, but i paid extra for this content, and so far i have not seen a return on that purchase.
 
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So your saying they have absolutely no requirements to provide the customers who bought their product with the content they advertised for said product. Take a look at no mans sky and see how their fan base reacted in a similar situation. Thats one of the main problems. No one is holding them accountable for the delays. Every single negetive comment has someone appear and try to justify or excuse them. And so here we sit, months later, and still no new relevent information. If you feel that they had no obligation to update in a timely fashion, or keeps us informed on the timing, thats on you, but i paid extra for this content, and so far i have not seen a return on that purchase.
Nowhere did Relogic advertise features that aren't in the game claiming they were, meaning that the No-Man's sky analogy doesn't really apply. If you purchase something that has no fixed release date, then you can't be annoyed when what you purchased doesn't arrive when you'd like. There's no reason that you couldn't have waited for the update to release.
 
So your saying they have absolutely no requirements to provide the customers who bought their product with the content they advertised for said product. Take a look at no mans sky and see how their fan base reacted in a similar situation. Thats one of the main problems. No one is holding them accountable for the delays. Every single negetive comment has someone appear and try to justify or excuse them. And so here we sit, months later, and still no new relevent information. If you feel that they had no obligation to update in a timely fashion, or keeps us informed on the timing, thats on you, but i paid extra for this content, and so far i have not seen a return on that purchase.
For what it's worth, they don't have to supply the update at all; although it would definitely be bad publicity, it wouldn't be legally wrong to do so. However, not releasing the update before or at the estimated (I can't stress this enough) release date is not in any way morally wrong. It would be like suing the weatherman because he predicted it'd be slightly cloudy and it turned out to be overcast; theoretically, the weather can be predicted 100% accurately, but the array of factors influencing it is so mindbogglingly huge (because planet Earth is quite large) that this is practically impossible to do so. The same goes for game development: there are so many factors, a lot of those attributable to completely unpredictable factors (employee leave, software updates, hardware failure, new regulations the list goes on and on) that an estimate is not only rather inaccurate, it's also nothing more than an estimate, a prediction. Not a promise, not an assurance, and certainly not a legally binding agreement.

As for your other point, you have not paid extra for 1.3, even if you think or feel that you have. What you paid for is a copy of Terraria, as is, that you currently can play on the intended platform and may or may not in your opinion be worth what you paid for. You are getting these updates free of charge, but that does not mean that they are included in the price before they actually arrive.
 
If nothing else, somebody from pipeworks should see what's happening here and put out a statement to calm :red: down.

Here's every active user in the forums right now.

1. People complaining about the update delays and lack of communication on said update.

2. Fanboys rushing in trying to put down any dissent.

3. Loki busting his :red: trying to play peacemaker.

It wouldn't hurt anyone at this point to post something relevant to the update.

P.s. :red: your streams and youtube videos. Take 5 minutes out of your day playing 1.3 and post something where people are actually paying attention.
 
I think people are attacking the wrong points here. The issue is how the development team, in general, always seems to broadcast an air of uncertainty. It's the fact that their updates are becoming 'untrustworthy.' This isn't the first delay. There have been many, many delays. It's not like this isn't an isolated incident. It starts to make you second guess the people involved. I think the real question people have and have trouble putting into words is 'why' does this dev team have so many delays? I know they always go back to that 'quality first' stand point, and that's great - I'm not attacking their mission goal as a company, but I would argue that historically, having numerous delays is a sign of 'bad quality' from a consumer standpoint. Lets look at the reality of the current situation: Console 1.3 was delayed from Q2 to Q3. They told us this in April, which is the first month of Q2. We are in the final month of Q3, in fact, we are almost halfway through the final month of Q3. If we were going to see the 1.3 Console Update in Q3, I feel like we would have already been told the date. I suspect that they'll wait until the last minute, and then make another post to tell us it's delayed again - or we won't hear anything at all until Q1 of 2018, and they'll post something about how "dev work is hard" or "they put quality first" and accompany it with another apology, and give us another open window of when we might see it. I know they make quality a priority, I just wish they'd make schedules, deadlines, and up to date posts a priority too, cause to be honest - the only thing I expect from this dev team these days is an apology/delay post.
 
The issue is how the development team, in general, always seems to broadcast an air of uncertainty.
They do. And the reason they do is because that's inherent to their particular brand of game development.

Very rudimentary, there are two ways of game development: standard based or resource based. The former implies that developers work on a game until it has reached a quality standard they deem sufficient, at which point they will release the product. The latter implies that developers work on a game until they have spent as much resources (time, money) on it as they can, or are willing to, afford. Now, time and money are easy to quantify: time can be quantified in day, weeks, months and years, or simply by setting deadlines. Money is just as easy: we can express quantities of money, you can quantify how much money you have, how much money you're spending each period of (quantifiable!) time, and when you will have run out. So if Pipeworks was working resource based, i.e. working a set amount of time or until a set amount of money had been spent, we'd know the deadline. What we wouldn't know is how good (or even if it would be good) the update would be.

Standard based development is an entirely different beast altogether. Instead of working with perfectly objective, mathematical guidelines, we're nose diving into realms of subjectivity that would give Socrates a field day. Is the game good? When is a game good? When is our game good? Is our game good enough? When is our game good enough? Do our end users think the game is good enough? When will our end users think the game is good enough? How many bugs do we have? How many bugs is many? How many bugs can we afford to have to not to have too many bugs? Is it worth our while to squash all these bugs? Is it worth our while to squash this specific bug? Can we support future updates with this code base? How important is it that we can support future updates with this code base? How important is it that we can support future updates with this code base right now? Should we spend time now to save time later? How much time can we afford to spend now to save later? Can we cut corners? Should we cut corners? Can we afford to cut corners? Which corners can we afford to cut? I could go on and on, but I hope you understand what I'm trying to get across. There's a massive array of subjective questioning that you simply can not quantify in (or like) time and money.

To be crystal clear, this does not mean that standard based games are automatically good (standards can be very low) and that resource based games are automatically bad (a lot of work can be done with limited resources), absolutely not. It also does not mean that standard based development is better than resource based development: the former, while the ideal or preferred method to many game developers, simply isn't always feasible or possible, as no matter how hell-bent you are on standards, once your resources run out (especially money in this case), you can no longer work on your game and simply have to release (or delay indefinitely or cancel), whether you're ready or not (an old saying in the game industry is that "a game is finished when you run out of money"). Furthermore, for many companies working on a game until it's perfect would simply cost more resources than they have available, as well as being generally more expensive, and not necessarily profitable (and a profit is the prime directive for any company: without it, it can not exist). In an ideal world, all development would be standard based. This is not an ideal world.

Anyway, what Pipeworks has chosen to follow is the standard based path, at least partly because Re-Logic wants that, at least partly because Pipeworks wants that, and at least partly because they can. The benefit of that is that the 1.3 update will be up to Re-Logic's standards (i.e. as good as 1.3 on PC. Whether or not that is good at all is up to one's personal judgement). The drawback to that is that any release estimate, short or (especially) long, is uncertain. That's not a flaw of Pipeworks, that is inherent to that method of game development.
 
Nowhere did Relogic advertise features that aren't in the game claiming they were, meaning that the No-Man's sky analogy doesn't really apply. If you purchase something that has no fixed release date, then you can't be annoyed when what you purchased doesn't arrive when you'd like. There's no reason that you couldn't have waited for the update to release.

So the advertisements on facebook, youtube, twitter, as well this and many other forum pages do not show any content that is not currently available? The original posts q2 release should not set the point of expectations, specifically when it's noted that an additional purchase is needed in order to access this content? I think the situation with no mans sky is an apt comparison. The biggest difference i see, is that no mans sky admins were actually in communication with their audience regarding these issues, and terraria devs don't seem to be telling us much of anything. This forum page is the biggest source of information available, yet theres nothing but silence. You and others are continously defending them, meanwhile those who went out and purchased the game based on false promises are left waiting in the cold since any disagreement is immidiently met with the same hollow arguements as to why they have no obligations to keep the promises they've made.
 
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So the advertisements on facebook, youtube, twitter, as well this and many other forum pages do not show any content that is not currently available? The original posts q2 release should not set the point of expectations, specifically when it's noted that an additional purchase is needed in order to access this content? I think the situation with no mans sky is an apt comparison. The biggest difference i see, is that no mans sky admins were actually in communication with their audience regarding these issues, and terraria devs don't seem to be telling us much of anything. This forum page is the biggest source of information available, yet theres nothing but silence. You and others are continously defending them, meanwhile those who went out and purchased the game based on false promises are left waiting in the cold since any disagreement is immidiently met with the same hollow arguements as to why they have no obligations to keep the promises they've made.
Please, show me evidence of an advert claiming 1.3 is available with the purchase immediately.
 
For what it's worth, they don't have to supply the update at all; although it would definitely be bad publicity, it wouldn't be legally wrong to do so. However, not releasing the update before or at the estimated (I can't stress this enough) release date is not in any way morally wrong. It would be like suing the weatherman because he predicted it'd be slightly cloudy and it turned out to be overcast; theoretically, the weather can be predicted 100% accurately, but the array of factors influencing it is so mindbogglingly huge (because planet Earth is quite large) that this is practically impossible to do so. The same goes for game development: there are so many factors, a lot of those attributable to completely unpredictable factors (employee leave, software updates, hardware failure, new regulations the list goes on and on) that an estimate is not only rather inaccurate, it's also nothing more than an estimate, a prediction. Not a promise, not an assurance, and certainly not a legally binding agreement.

As for your other point, you have not paid extra for 1.3, even if you think or feel that you have. What you paid for is a copy of Terraria, as is, that you currently can play on the intended platform and may or may not in your opinion be worth what you paid for. You are getting these updates free of charge, but that does not mean that they are included in the price before they actually arrive.


No, i can say with all certainty that i paid for 1.3 based on timelines and restriction given by the company. Timeline was q2, restriction was that i would have to purchase a new copy for next gen consoles. You can pretty it up how you like, but at the end of the day, anyone who bought a new copy based on this information are going to be upset at this point.
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Please, show me evidence of an advert claiming 1.3 is available with the purchase immediately.

I could be cheeky and point you towards the xbox one store, unless thats been updated,however instead i'll point to this quote

Our current target delivery for the Reset+1.3 is Q2 2017. All of this will be absolutely free to existing Current Gen Console Terraria owners (Old Gen players will have to purchase a Current Gen copy).


It does not state immidiatly on release, it states q2. Simple, defined and easy to read. And at the time, it was the only resource that was available. Now we are nearing the end of q3 and the content is still not available, and no new concrete information has been provided.
 
No, i can say with all certainty that i paid for 1.3 based on timelines and restriction given by the company. Timeline was q2, restriction was that i would have to purchase a new copy for next gen consoles. You can pretty it up how you like, but at the end of the day, anyone who bought a new copy based on this information are going to be upset at this point.
[doublepost=1504893879,1504893453][/doublepost]

I could be cheeky and point you towards the xbox one store, unless thats been updated,however instead i'll point to this quote

Our current target delivery for the Reset+1.3 is Q2 2017. All of this will be absolutely free to existing Current Gen Console Terraria owners (Old Gen players will have to purchase a Current Gen copy).


It does not state immidiatly on release, it states q2. Simple, defined and easy to read. And at the time, it was the only resource that was available. Now we are nearing the end of q3 and the content is still not available, and no new concrete information has been provided.
'Target' - this key word shows that it is not set in stone, and is just a goal.
 
when i was on ps4 i went to the store,typed in terraria (i dunno why) and i found out there are 2 games called terraria on the screen
if anyone knows about this plz tell me im really confused:sigh:
 
'Target' - this key word shows that it is not set in stone, and is just a goal.

Any port in a storm i guess. I could also point you towards their twitter page
https://mobile.twitter.com/terraria_logic/status/757966076282015744?lang=en

where official terraria replies numerous times that the release will be q2, clearly with no maybes, targets, or estimates, much like the replies on their youtube channel are now showing q3. Semantics aside, they have repeatedly failed to keep their promises to their customers, and as of this point, there is still no real word on when they plan on releasing it. Justify it how you want, but it's getting old. Forums say one thing, youtube another, and twitch streams a third. Here we are 3 weeks to go and still no new solid information. I get it, regardless of what actions they take, folks are going to find a way to try to defend it, that does not excuse whats been happening.
 
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