Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

[mathbrush]

If you're looking for nerfs:

-Bows are probably a bit too strong. In particular, archery potion is +20% and multiplies total damage output (so doesn't just stack, it's even stronger). As well, magic quiver, molten quiver, and the other quiver all stack. I think nerfing archery potion to +15% or even +10% and removing the quiver stacking would still keep bows one of the strongest weapons in the game, but make them a little less dominant.

-Gravitation potion in cavern layer chests and pots makes it really easy early on (before any bosses) to just fly through the world looking for floating islands and getting both wings and the Starfury (which can annihilate most pre-hardmode bosses, including wall of flesh). I don't think it would be too much of a change to restrict gravitation potion to underworld pots and chests and dungeon pots and chests, since there are a lot of other ways to make it to islands early that take more effort/skill to avoid harpies and fall damage.

 

[Hammerhoovy]

You know something that would be cool?

If Bundle of Balloons got an early hardmode upgrade that is a combination of Bundle of Balloons + Fart in a Balloon + Sharkron Balloon + Honey Balloon + 20 Souls of Flight + Lucky Horseshoe.

Souls of Flight are there to restrict it to Hardmode because this would be too OP for Pre-Hardmode. The Lucky Horseshoe is there so that this item could potentially be a sort of alternative to wings. You would have to make Shiny Red Balloons easier to get though due to the tedium of finding 5 of them.

I know that adding new content is outside of what the devs want to do this update. I’m just putting this out there because it sounds like a cool accessory.

 

[Flubman]

You know something that would be cool?

If Bundle of Balloons got an early hardmode upgrade that is a combination of Bundle of Balloons + Fart in a Balloon + Sharkron Balloon + Honey Balloon + 20 Souls of Flight + Lucky Horseshoe.

Souls of Flight are there to restrict it to Hardmode because this would be too OP for Pre-Hardmode. The Lucky Horseshoe is there so that this item could potentially be a sort of alternative to wings. You would have to make Shiny Red Balloons easier to get though due to the tedium of finding 5 of them.

I know that adding new content is outside of what the devs want to do this update. I’m just putting this out there because it sounds like a cool accessory.

Bundle of Balloons is already a really good accessory. We don't need a stronger version of it.

 

[GoldenTerrabyte]

You know something that would be cool?

If Bundle of Balloons got an early hardmode upgrade that is a combination of Bundle of Balloons + Fart in a Balloon + Sharkron Balloon + Honey Balloon + 20 Souls of Flight + Lucky Horseshoe.

Souls of Flight are there to restrict it to Hardmode because this would be too OP for Pre-Hardmode. The Lucky Horseshoe is there so that this item could potentially be a sort of alternative to wings. You would have to make Shiny Red Balloons easier to get though due to the tedium of finding 5 of them.

I know that adding new content is outside of what the devs want to do this update. I’m just putting this out there because it sounds like a cool accessory.

Here's another potentially fun idea that doesn't require any new items.
If you have a double-jump item, why not have the Soaring Insignia give it infinite jumps? You already can get infinite flight with wings with it, so while this wouldn't be a super powerful option, it would be a fun alternative to play with.

 

[Hammerhoovy]

Bundle of Balloons is already a really good accessory. We don't need a stronger version of it.

I know that Bundle of Balloons is incredible for Pre-Hardmode but in Hardmode they probably get outshined by most wings. But idk tbh, haven’t used them all that much in Hardmode. I mostly just use them in Pre-Hardmode, so my claim about them being outshined by most wings might or might not be correct.

 

[CellarDoor96]

I know that Bundle of Balloons is incredible for Pre-Hardmode but in Hardmode they probably get outshined by most wings. But idk tbh, haven’t used them all that much in Hardmode. I mostly just use them in Pre-Hardmode, so my claim about them being outshined by most wings might or might not be correct.

If Bundle of Balloons just gave fall damage immunity then it'd be straight up better than most wings. Its ability to change directions quickly in midair and its much faster ascent speed makes it better than wings for dodging enemies and attacks, and its max height is just under that of second-tier hardmode wings.

It's pretty much already a hardmode accessory in terms of how good it is, and only the rarity of its ingredients and its lack of fall damage immunity keep it from being busted.

 

[MrD108]

Deerclops should slowly regenerate health when out of combat.

 

[Flubman]

I don't know if this could be done. But how about changing it so that mowed grass can be changed back into regular grass simply by planting grass seeds on it? Right now, in order to undo mowed grass, you have to replace the dirt it grows on.

 

[Mille Marteaux]

my opinion as someone who's only really been around since 1.2.4 golem/moon endgame days is just that... basically everything from 1.3 onwards has invalidated most other gear in really, really bad ways, either in raw power, ease of use, or in ease of access. melee and yoyos, magic being kinda lame to play until you use crystal serpent for half the game, onyx blaster...

at the end of the day, this isn't really a competitive game, and i don't think that worrying too much about balance is the right road to walk. but looking into older items that have effectively been left behind by more modern stuff (like the paladin's hammer, the flairon...) to bring them a bit further up back into endgame usability and relevance is probably what i'd want to suggest.

i want to mention summon ai but that's far beyond the scope of anything that will happen, i think, but the vast majority of existing summons basically being invalidated by the existence of things like blade staff and sanguine bats feels really really bad. its a similar issue with magic and crystal serpent or ranged with onyx blaster, except those at least have upgrades - summons tend to feel like downgrades due to the older AI being... old.

idk. i haven't played this game in a while. been meaning to but i always fall off in singleplayer because of how much i've optimized the fun out of it at times. its always been a social experience for me and a lot of the social stuff i see is focused on balance in a broken slamfest that's draining to think about.

i like to hit things.

 

[MrD108]

Minishark, megashark, SDMG - like the trident, they now increase movement speed in water.

Fishing weapons and gear should also increase the player's ability to stay in the water when held.
I am talking about:
Reaver Shark, Sawtooth Shark, Rockfish, Purple Clubberfish, Swordfish, Crystal Serpent, Toxicarp and Obsidian Swordfish.

 

[Dr. Flavin]

my opinion as someone who's only really been around since 1.2.4 golem/moon endgame days is just that... basically everything from 1.3 onwards has invalidated most other gear in really, really bad ways, either in raw power, ease of use, or in ease of access. melee and yoyos, magic being kinda lame to play until you use crystal serpent for half the game, onyx blaster...

at the end of the day, this isn't really a competitive game, and i don't think that worrying too much about balance is the right road to walk. but looking into older items that have effectively been left behind by more modern stuff (like the paladin's hammer, the flairon...) to bring them a bit further up back into endgame usability and relevance is probably what i'd want to suggest.

i want to mention summon ai but that's far beyond the scope of anything that will happen, i think, but the vast majority of existing summons basically being invalidated by the existence of things like blade staff and sanguine bats feels really really bad. its a similar issue with magic and crystal serpent or ranged with onyx blaster, except those at least have upgrades - summons tend to feel like downgrades due to the older AI being... old.

idk. i haven't played this game in a while. been meaning to but i always fall off in singleplayer because of how much i've optimized the fun out of it at times. its always been a social experience for me and a lot of the social stuff i see is focused on balance in a broken slamfest that's draining to think about.

i like to hit things.

I understand where you're coming from, Terraria is a game with over 500 weapons and hundreds of armors and accessories, yet it feels like less than half of them actually matter.
I mean, when's the last time somebody seriously used the Flintlock Pistol?
Or snow armor?

But that's what this thread is here for!
To(hopefully) shine light on the items forgotten by time or the meta and bring them up to the modern standard!

And old summons? I wouldn't count them out just yet.
You'd be surprised what buffing some numbers can do,
most of them suffer from low aggro range, low return speed or low general movespeed, bump up those up and you might have some useable summons on your hands.

On a side note, I've... never actually used Crystal Serpent or Onyx Blaster all that much.
I don't know, I've never really felt like I needed to. Buffed Cursed Flames(the book) is great, and with the Onyx Blaster nerf I have cemented myself as a certified Dart Rifle Enjoyer.
Eh. Just my two cents.

 

[Flowersteef]

In a game with this many weapons, it's probably inevitable that increasing one weapon's use will make a different weapon less useful. (For example: How far would you make the flintlock pistol more useful without outshining the Undertaker or Revolver? And even if it doesn't, then is it still worth taking?) So a 'weapon meta' will eventually come out of the final patch.

We can still make the balance between the items as fair as possible. So one item is not outperforming many of it's tier by a huge amount.

 

[Snail]

I was just playing and thought the ooa sentry accessories are a bit lacking and quasi useless compared to normal summoner equipment like the pygmy necklace, my proposed change would be a 5% increase to their respective weapon damage and in case of the shield a bit of defence to separate it from the belt. I think this would help them be a better option against regular summoner accessories and make them unique from each other.

 

[micmou]

I am once again here to propose the addition of a bottomless Honey Bucket and relevant Sponge. I have made my points on this in the past in depth but if you desire I will reiterate upon it. The time constraint thing is a non issue for the idea aswell. The tools already exist for other things so it is as simple as a resprite of the existing buckets and making it do honey instead of water or lava.

One other thing that others have suggested is a combination liquid item one that can work like the grand design but for liquids. This is not something I think you can do in this short period that you have been given I added it as others have talked about it.

 

[NeoPhantom]

This is more for a future update idea if such as time comes and this idea remains in your mind by then:

Smart Phone: combination of Cell Phone, Magic Conch & Demon Conch. It works similar to the Grand Design in that the left/right click work differently: by left clicking you can teleport to bed if its set, but by right clicking you open a radial menu with five buttons: left/right take you to the farthest available blocks on either direction (like the Magic Conch), up and down take you to the farthest blocks available for standing above and below spawn, while the center takes you to spawn even if you have a bed set.

This item would literally be just an aid to travel around without carrying 3 teleportation items around.

Alternatively, you could forgoe the cellphone and use the Magic/Ice Mirror to create a Dimensional Mirror with the above effects but none of the informational effects of the PDA.

If too OP for casual game, add the Universal Pylon as material and the ability to teleport to any pylon regardless of your location from the map to compensate it requiring a 100% bestiary.

 

[MasterworkStone]

If you're looking for nerfs:

-Bows are probably a bit too strong. In particular, archery potion is +20% and multiplies total damage output (so doesn't just stack, it's even stronger). As well, magic quiver, molten quiver, and the other quiver all stack. I think nerfing archery potion to +15% or even +10% and removing the quiver stacking would still keep bows one of the strongest weapons in the game, but make them a little less dominant.

Bows are strong because their shots travel slower than bullets.

-Gravitation potion in cavern layer chests and pots makes it really easy early on (before any bosses) to just fly through the world looking for floating islands and getting both wings and the Starfury (which can annihilate most pre-hardmode bosses, including wall of flesh). I don't think it would be too much of a change to restrict gravitation potion to underworld pots and chests and dungeon pots and chests, since there are a lot of other ways to make it to islands early that take more effort/skill to avoid harpies and fall damage.

This is a choice, this is not forced upon you, people who want to have an easier time early on can fly up to islands and look for wings and/or starfury.
Your suggestion of restricting these potions to the underworld only does not affect just you, it affects everyone, why should your idea of fun impact everyone else? They don't allow you to skip anything, there is no progression reason to make them harder to obtain.

 

[whoneedsnamestbh]

Bows are strong because their shots travel slower than bullets.

This is a choice, this is not forced upon you, people who want to have an easier time early on can fly up to islands and look for wings and/or starfury.
Your suggestion of restricting these potions to the underworld only does not affect just you, it affects everyone, why should your idea of fun impact everyone else? They don't allow you to skip anything, there is no progression reason to make them harder to obtain.

Bow velocity isn’t actually much lower than that of guns, especially considering archery potion and quivers. Bows are strong because they’re overtuned for the most part, and Archery Potion can be partially blamed for that. A nerf on its part would be for the better, I’d say.

Also, I do think you kind of missed the point of balance. Easily accessible sky islands making your life easier would mean that other options are outclassed, and said accessibility should probably be toned down. I don’t really think balance is the same as “ruining another’s fun”.

That said, I’m not entirely sure sky islands *do* need a tier change or lock on them. Starfury is a good melee weapon but is only “good” on a scale accounting for everything, fledgling wings as a whole are overrated and balloons don’t really pick up until post-Goblins when you unlock their tinkers anyway. And besides, moving Gravitation Potion would just make people fall back on other ways to get to them.

 

[AngryNimbus]

This is a choice, this is not forced upon you, people who want to have an easier time early on can fly up to islands and look for wings and/or starfury.
Your suggestion of restricting these potions to the underworld only does not affect just you, it affects everyone, why should your idea of fun impact everyone else? They don't allow you to skip anything, there is no progression reason to make them harder to obtain.

"Fun" means enjoying the game, the main aspesct of every game is good gameplay, and good gameplay is impossible without decent balance.

The point of balancing weapons is to gradually increase weapons' and enemies' power to maintain desirable (envisioned by the devs) level of difficulty, and making sure that weapons on earlier progression stages do not outclass later ones, and vice versa.

Imagine an extreme case scenario:
Zenith is accessible from wooden chests and Vampire Knives are given by default (alongside with Copper Shortsword). This will grant more choice for players, who want to have easier time in their playthrough.
Something is wrong with that.

Let's return back to our case:
Starfury wipes the floor with any weapon accessible from surface and regular underground. Gravitation potions, needed to obtain it, are usually found really quickly (here, underground), which is earlier than Starfury's level of power should allow to.

 

[DeDZahar]

Make gold carp be suitable for golden delight and gold fish in a bowl recipes
P.S. I'm on new playthrought now and in large world managed to find the holy lava charm right before EoW exactly under spawn point in mushroom biome while digging a hellevator. Except of cource it was 2000~ depth and there was like no lava nearby (or was (I didn't discover places around the hellevator yet)) but uuhh god I'm in love with this damn mushrooms;p
so fixing their spawn is not that critical like for pyramids; for now.
Also, the idea of combining cell phone with shells sounds interesting but guess it's icon will look weird (in terms of constant look of previously combined items) and if it's going to be approved I shall suggest ecto mist and crystal ball as craft station.

 

[Techdude594]

I've been playing Skyblock recently, and am curious as to why certain gold chest items are not renewable. Most *main* chest items in the game are renewable right now which is good, but a few aren't, and I think they should due to importance in recipes.

The items that stick out are band of regeneration, shoe spikes, and magic/ice mirror. Adding the first 2 items to golden crates, and the mirrors to gold/frozen/boreal crates would be great.

Maybe throw flare gun into the golden crate loot table as well, though that isn't as necessary (I'm biased towards the flare gun)