Showcase [Showcase] The fastest possible heart generator (statue farm)

Thx for sharing :happy: .




So I took my measurements and used them to judge my design. Base I call the time every heart needs to travel to the player, this includes the somewhat speculative 0.2 s exspected time to enter the hoik track. 2nd column is the additional time it would take a heart if it is not at the center, but at the edge, cause there is more of a horizontal travel and each level is what is added one story below for the additional vertical travel. Than I wrote in the results.
View attachment 378933
Unsuprisingly the bottom right corner faired the worst. But I quickly realised, that there are a bunch of options (16 in fact) for heart chambers below or to the side that have around equal or even better timer to it. I wrote them in to the side or below, according to where their heart chamber would go.

Given that the design had a efficiency of a little below 50%, I knew most of these options (maybe all) would have to be eliminated - I started this process knowing I had to eliminate existing chambers, not to add more - but given the numbers I thought I might be able to have an additional chamber through an option I had overlooked. Since I had added 16 chambers I then eliminated the worst 16 options. This still left me with 4 chambers that would need more than 3.5 s to arrive at the player, so I eliminated them as well. This is what my result looked like:

View attachment 378935

The next question ahead was, in what order to trigger them? These delivery times can be thought of as a queue I figured. So the problem at hand was to optimize a cue. A problem that can only be solved with state of the art technology. Basic understanding of logistics, a functioning heuristic and a text editor:

View attachment 378966

Now basically the intructions were. No more the 3 o in any row. S, A may share a row. All queue must arrive within 40 steps. Use Tab/Backspace to move them to the left/right. Note: There may not be a viable solution. In that case remove the bottom queue and start over. I arrived at this:

View attachment 378984

Now all I have to do is build a 40 gate long shift register connected to a 1/4 s timer and trigger the corrosponding heart chambers at the exact time the heuristic suggested. Econ as a second mayor is clearly payin' off :cool:.

Since I'm quite confident in my measurements and methods, my execution will decide how efficient this version is going to get. There is some randomness with hearts and the 0.2 expected value might be over-/underestimated - but aside from that I'm quite confident. And I have to be. You may have grasped from the heuristic sheet, that I had to eliminate all but 12 heart chambers. That leaves a maximum potential of 3,6 hearts/s. You clocked the last design between 170 and 180 hearts per minute - it had an efficiency of about 50%. To get an equal result. This new design will need to be at an efficiency of 79% on the low end and 84% on the high end. Well that's some order ain't it :sigh:.

I'll post it when it's done - so far nothing has been constructed :cool:.



Edit: It's done. In fact I did it twice. They are basically the same, just that one of them uses a more cautious heuristic approach - but as a trade of has less total hearts to go around. While there will always be outliers, both of these machines should blow the efficiency level through the roof. And I hope they do cause they only have a total of 38 hearts in the frugal one and 36 for the cautious model. I really don't have the faintest clue witch one will fair better or if they can even outperform the previous model. The numbers are limited in there preciseness (and I have to use them in smaller decimals than they were measured at, witch technically is a big NO NO!) as well as their validity, cause hearts can behave in such outlandish ways that you'd never see comimg.
Then maybe my approach was wrong. Nearing the end of the constructions I had some thoughts in the vein of "This won't work, you just added up the number you measured for different ways of movement, but a system is more than it's parts you would have to measure the numbers for each chamber individually in game..." - Well I hope that's not the fact :confused:.

Anyway the heuristic gave me some very interesting orders of activation that were a pain to wire :sigh:.

I'm curious how it will do :cool:

View attachment 379083

Cool statistics. I tested both these designs and unfortunately, the times have dropped. Both designs are coming in around ~150 hearts / minute.
left.PNG


I did a deep analyses on it and besides your math, you are forgetting some variables in your formulas. You can only have 10 hearts on the map at once. And the hearts that are moving will come within 23 blocks of another statue cutting of their spawns. These are the reasons why I suggested my design in my last comment.
 
I did a deep analyses on it and besides your math, you are forgetting some variables in your formulas. You can only have 10 hearts on the map at once. And the hearts that are moving will come within 23 blocks of another statue cutting of their spawns. These are the reasons why I suggested my design in my last comment.
Thx for the measurements, anyhot.

I built a little contraption to test the speeds in system conditions and arrived at a similiar conclusion - though I had hoped they still might work. So basically I was working under a completely wrong assumptions. I thought the bame kept track of witch statue spawned witch heart and as long as these hearts are around these staues, that are within 23 tiles of each other can't spawn any more hearts. That's bollucks though. While the hearts move around they actively block an area of 23 tiles around them from spawning any more hearts. So to do the heuristics approach one would have to track the position of every heart that is currently in queue and not just control for the max number and delivery time.

On the positive note, my speed calculations seem to be spot on - in the mean that is. In the mid level I measurured variations of +/- 0.5 a second on the bottom floor the range seems to be around the 1 second mark. I could see that pretty correctly. Thx to this.

Capture 2022-08-06 22_28_23.png


I basically lined up a bunch of your delay mechnisms with each other so that I can perfectly choose for witch increment of .25 s the dummy engine runs until it's shut of automatically. That way when heart were still in cue I could just repeat the process in small increments till they arrived.

Well basically this buries any advantage I thought the spaced out approach might have. Even the hole concept of triggering them in groups of 3 is called into question. Tracing won't work either because the outliers are to big - all in all they seem to be in the +/- 30 % range no matter where. Well that is one tough cookie.
 
Thx for the measurements, anyhot.

I built a little contraption to test the speeds in system conditions and arrived at a similiar conclusion - though I had hoped they still might work. So basically I was working under a completely wrong assumptions. I thought the bame kept track of witch statue spawned witch heart and as long as these hearts are around these staues, that are within 23 tiles of each other can't spawn any more hearts. That's bollucks though. While the hearts move around they actively block an area of 23 tiles around them from spawning any more hearts. So to do the heuristics approach one would have to track the position of every heart that is currently in queue and not just control for the max number and delivery time.

On the positive note, my speed calculations seem to be spot on - in the mean that is. In the mid level I measurured variations of +/- 0.5 a second on the bottom floor the range seems to be around the 1 second mark. I could see that pretty correctly. Thx to this.

View attachment 379154

I basically lined up a bunch of your delay mechnisms with each other so that I can perfectly choose for witch increment of .25 s the dummy engine runs until it's shut of automatically. That way when heart were still in cue I could just repeat the process in small increments till they arrived.

Well basically this buries any advantage I thought the spaced out approach might have. Even the hole concept of triggering them in groups of 3 is called into question. Tracing won't work either because the outliers are to big - all in all they seem to be in the +/- 30 % range no matter where. Well that is one tough cookie.

200 Hearts / Minute
200HRT.png

200.png


So I have adjusted the heart execution some. Instead of executing the hearts from the bottom to the top, it's now from the top down. This gives the hearts less time to be collected to respect the rule of the > 23 heart range. I have also adjusted the execution order to ascend downwards correctly along with some wrong conveyor directions.

Exec.png

The download file is attached bellow.
 

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  • #1Hearts_world.wld
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This improve ment really is something. Just a little while back you thought 3 might be a barrier :happy:
After sleeping on it, I think I don't have to trash the hole concept after all. Even with the glaring flaw of me not understanding the 23 tiles apart rule it still took the efficiency up to 70%.
I think if I increase the length of the vertical pathway to the middle elevator, so that hearts in the elevator don't block spawn in the chambers to the side, the design might actually work is it's supposed to. The drawback is another 1/2 a second of Base delivery time. But aside from that there isn't much that needs to be redone. Inefficient chambers won't suddenly become efficient by adding more travel time and my cautious heuristic already allows for greater travel times than what I would expect so it can be reused (won't be optimal - but if this does increase it, there is room to optimize it with a personalized heuristic).

I have one question to your design. Is there a specific reason, that you don't have the inner an outher chambers on the same level but instead opt to have them a little below them?
 
This improve ment really is something. Just a little while back you thought 3 might be a barrier :happy:
After sleeping on it, I think I don't have to trash the hole concept after all. Even with the glaring flaw of me not understanding the 23 tiles apart rule it still took the efficiency up to 70%.
I think if I increase the length of the vertical pathway to the middle elevator, so that hearts in the elevator don't block spawn in the chambers to the side, the design might actually work is it's supposed to. The drawback is another 1/2 a second of Base delivery time. But aside from that there isn't much that needs to be redone. Inefficient chambers won't suddenly become efficient by adding more travel time and my cautious heuristic already allows for greater travel times than what I would expect so it can be reused (won't be optimal - but if this does increase it, there is room to optimize it with a personalized heuristic).

I have one question to your design. Is there a specific reason, that you don't have the inner an outher chambers on the same level but instead opt to have them a little below them?

You should diffidently try and do those changes, still carious to see if any improvements can be made. For the offset, my original intentions for this was to give more time (space away from statues) for the left chamber to raise the hearts further away from the soon executing right side. Trying to combat the 23 block rule is not easy. I'm not sure if making them even does actually make a difference or not.
 
Alright, not much new here.

- I broadened the paths to the elevator in case hearts in them were blocking spawn
- I went through the hole heuristic again, this time with correct assumptions (only one approach, more caution would mean i#d have to remove heart statues - at 35 heart statues - less is definitely less!)
- wiring was a blast :sigh:- I didn't take out the excess junction boxes this time, cuz who cares
- since chambers on the same level can block each other no matter what by the movement of their hearts, I removed some space between them, since it didn't serve any purpose

- hearts appear in stacks of three mostly - like they are supposed to
- my personal side goal - to have this thing produce a stream of stars so the Last Prism can be used indefinitely gained some ground. It runs for up to 22 s now / best I got before was around 6 (I also saw it stop after just 4 though). But since it already can run for over two cycles, the flaw doesn't seem to be with the setup but is instead caused by random star behaviour- well how am I supposed to fix that :D
Capture 2022-08-07 15_29_23.png
 

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  • Stationary Heart Hoik 4.0.wld
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Alright, not much new here.

- I broadened the paths to the elevator in case hearts in them were blocking spawn
- I went through the hole heuristic again, this time with correct assumptions (only one approach, more caution would mean i#d have to remove heart statues - at 35 heart statues - less is definitely less!)
- wiring was a blast :sigh:- I didn't take out the excess junction boxes this time, cuz who cares
- since chambers on the same level can block each other no matter what by the movement of their hearts, I removed some space between them, since it didn't serve any purpose

- hearts appear in stacks of three mostly - like they are supposed to
- my personal side goal - to have this thing produce a stream of stars so the Last Prism can be used indefinitely gained some ground. It runs for up to 22 s now / best I got before was around 6 (I also saw it stop after just 4 though). But since it already can run for over two cycles, the flaw doesn't seem to be with the setup but is instead caused by random star behaviour- well how am I supposed to fix that :D
View attachment 379290

This was the best of 5. Still likes to hang around 150-160 hearts / minute.
160.PNG
 
Well this is an efficiency between 71 and 76 % witch is better.
I think this might be a natural limit with the approach of activating the hearts in stacks of three. According to my measurements I assume there to be a time difference of 1/8 second between heart statues on the left side and 1/4 s on the right. Over 3 heart statues that sums up to 1/4 to 1/2s depending on the side. I have used the mean time between this to calculate the activation moment of the individual chambers, but as we have seen repeatedly by now this approach is simply not correct enough to achieve the necessary efficiency. Also it's a very tedious wiring process. That's why I built a monster - literally, just take a look :D
[/Spoiler]
Capture 2022-08-08 00_25_59.png
Capture 2022-08-08 00_26_35.png

- It's activation cycle is dictated by a 40 gate long shift register hooked to a 1/4 s timer
- there are a total of 90 heart statues, that can be hooked up individually to any point cycle
- The hole process is very easy once setup

This is how it functions:
Capture 2022-08-08 00_27_22.png


- each logic gate has a corresponding line within this gigantic wire train ranging going left to right, from 1 (first activation in cycle) to 40 (the last)

Capture 2022-08-08 00_27_11.png


- the heart statues, are grouped together as close as possible and now must be activated with two different wire colour to allow individual activation
- the are grouped together in lines of two, were the upmost line always correspondents with the innermost two heart statues and the bottom line belongs to the outer most two
- from the elevator to the edge there wire colour always is red - green - red - green ... to avoid confusion

Capture 2022-08-08 00_45_30.png


- so to put a specific heart at a defined position, all one has to do is remove the junction box that corresponds to the choosen time
- in the picture that's the fifth one from the right so the statues would be hooked to the fifth gate in the cycle
- it's also in the second line from the bottom, so it would lead the choosen fifth gat to the two hearts on the second level
- now all one has to do is put a red, green or both coulered dot of wire on the gate to decide wether the left, right or both statues shall be targeted - it's basically coding

Benefits:
- Very quick setup and easy to reverse, it's literally a junction box and a dot of wire to do it
- exorbitant amount of heart statue allows one to go crazy in the hole - what if I added just one more thing
- No need to start wiring from scratch, add/demolish hole chambers, just to try a different setup (everything can be activated, everything can be left out
- Another nice feature: All the statues that share a line in the picture have about the same travel time to the player as one another (sry about the visibility - I should have added a light source - as well as the clumsy drawing, but I think the point is still understandable)
Capture 2022-08-08 00_25_59.png

[ Edit: Lines are only in spirit correct ( I went straight form the edge to the inside, but on the left side I would have had to skip every other heart statue and include every single one on the right only (the others have inbetween times)]

Limitations:
- since two statues always share a line (had to be this way to fit it between the 23 tile gap) and there can only be two wire colours utilized, without making the setup confusing every output can only trigger 1, 2 or 4 statues in a maximum of 2 different places (it's alway red/green in one line, therefor impossible two get both in the first place but only one of them in the second // a third place could be technically added, but efficiency drops when more than five statues are connected to a single source). 3-5 statues in 3-5 places are somwhat possible as long as they all share the same colour
- so far I don't have the slightest idea how to design an efficient nontheless optimal cycle within this monster - there's simply too many possibilities to do it by hand like before (even if I stuck to just 36 statues, like the last design did, it couldn't be feasable done by me)

Sofar it does nothing, for nothing is connected. But that's what I've come up with :cool:

PS: I tried to attach the shematics, but for some reason that file extension isn't allowed.
 

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Well this is an efficiency between 71 and 76 % witch is better.
I think this might be a natural limit with the approach of activating the hearts in stacks of three. According to my measurements I assume there to be a time difference of 1/8 second between heart statues on the left side and 1/4 s on the right. Over 3 heart statues that sums up to 1/4 to 1/2s depending on the side. I have used the mean time between this to calculate the activation moment of the individual chambers, but as we have seen repeatedly by now this approach is simply not correct enough to achieve the necessary efficiency. Also it's a very tedious wiring process. That's why I built a monster - literally, just take a look :D
[/Spoiler]

- It's activation cycle is dictated by a 40 gate long shift register hooked to a 1/4 s timer
- there are a total of 90 heart statues, that can be hooked up individually to any point cycle
- The hole process is very easy once setup

This is how it functions:
View attachment 379393

- each logic gate has a corresponding line within this gigantic wire train ranging going left to right, from 1 (first activation in cycle) to 40 (the last)

View attachment 379394

- the heart statues, are grouped together as close as possible and now must be activated with two different wire colour to allow individual activation
- the are grouped together in lines of two, were the upmost line always correspondents with the innermost two heart statues and the bottom line belongs to the outer most two
- from the elevator to the edge there wire colour always is red - green - red - green ... to avoid confusion

View attachment 379397

- so to put a specific heart at a defined position, all one has to do is remove the junction box that corresponds to the choosen time
- in the picture that's the fifth one from the right so the statues would be hooked to the fifth gate in the cycle
- it's also in the second line from the bottom, so it would lead the choosen fifth gat to the two hearts on the second level
- now all one has to do is put a red, green or both coulered dot of wire on the gate to decide wether the left, right or both statues shall be targeted - it's basically coding

Benefits:
- Very quick setup and easy to reverse, it's literally a junction box and a dot of wire to do it
- exorbitant amount of heart statue allows one to go crazy in the hole - what if I added just one more thing
- No need to start wiring from scratch, add/demolish hole chambers, just to try a different setup (everything can be activated, everything can be left out
- Another nice feature: All the statues that share a line in the picture have about the same travel time to the player as one another (sry about the visibility - I should have added a light source - as well as the clumsy drawing, but I think the point is still understandable)
View attachment 379398
[ Edit: Lines are only in spirit correct ( I went straight form the edge to the inside, but on the left side I would have had to skip every other heart statue and include every single one on the right only (the others have inbetween times)]

Limitations:
- since two statues always share a line (had to be this way to fit it between the 23 tile gap) and there can only be two wire colours utilized, without making the setup confusing every output can only trigger 1, 2 or 4 statues in a maximum of 2 different places (it's alway red/green in one line, therefor impossible two get both in the first place but only one of them in the second // a third place could be technically added, but efficiency drops when more than five statues are connected to a single source). 3-5 statues in 3-5 places are somwhat possible as long as they all share the same colour
- so far I don't have the slightest idea how to design an efficient nontheless optimal cycle within this monster - there's simply too many possibilities to do it by hand like before (even if I stuck to just 36 statues, like the last design did, it couldn't be feasable done by me)

Sofar it does nothing, for nothing is connected. But that's what I've come up with :cool:

PS: I tried to attach the shematics, but for some reason that file extension isn't allowed.

This would be interesting to test - .zip the schematic file and attach it. I will give it a go.

EDIT: This actually gave me an idea of something to try and test. I will post more on it later.
 
Forgetting I can zip things - well that's cringy :rolleyes:
But an idead already? Wonderful :D - test to your hearts content, that is it's one purpose :cool:.
 

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Forgetting I can zip things - well that's cringy :rolleyes:
But an idead already? Wonderful :D - test to your hearts content, that is it's one purpose :cool:.

Cool thanks for the schematic, appears not to be working due to the junction boxes not being turned correctly.
errors.PNG


Anyways my idea was to make a simpler version of the heart device and make them go from outward to inward. This design gets ~185 / minute.
1760-204.png
 
Ah, ja thx I see the problem. I believe there is a rather easy fix that can be done as soon as I have the time (than again it might be tricky :confused: - I tend to confuse myself).
Looks good, though this scaled down design choice obviously removes the monstress Metropolis like visuals and gives it more of a sleak and laidback silicon valley style - if thtat's what your into. I'm working on a approach that I dubbed Exorbitant Redundancy. Since the hole, make it as precise and efficient approach I took before hand failed as glorious as it's high ambitions were. I thought why not got the opposide route? Well not the precise opposite. I'll try to space out around 30 statues as efficient as possible. Then supplement each of them with 2 statues, one that triggers on the step before them and one that triggers afterwards. There should be room for that since there are plenty of statues that have about the seem delivery time. If this approach get's 30% efficiency I'd be at 3 h/s and good randomness might happen for a change :D


Edit: I fixed it. So it turns out. The wire train seemed to be the one thing that didn't need fixing. I had built the hole complex from scratch in order not to copy in any bugs and/or mistakes - I made it much much worse. Bug Fixes include:

- Midway elevator to broad - hearts just fall down
- wrongly allined actuation patterns
- missing wire on actuated blocks
- seemingly every past mistak that get's hearts stuck
- stuff like that ...

Then there were gross design flaws:

- using a more compact hoik mechanism from statue to horizontal path, that was only ever tested for left to right movement on the right to left side - of course it didn't work, how could I think it would - and to what benefit? It removes a single line of tiles witch in upwards movement clocks in at 1/60s. Great idea *cringe*
- imploying a sloping pattern on the right to left side that has no benefits, but occasionally get's hearts stuck for no apparent reason. You may know the one - it's the one I labelled in Project How fast is hoik as : "Never use from right to left; get's hearts stuck!"
- Disregarding the amount of wire colors. So in the very closely crammed together shift register were already 3 wiring colours in use - of course there were, there had to be. Yet my idea was to add up to 2 colors in the logic gate as an output that codes witch heart statue get's turned on. Of course that didn't work cause it created a loop.

All of these were very embarrassing mistake, good thing last night I insisted on getting the upload done, while already half asleep.

Besides fixing these, I included some quality of life additions, so the thing can actually be used without getting a headache, including:
- better visibility through gemspark walls, deliberate paintings and visual represantation that reduces the need to count. But see for yourself:

Capture 2022-08-08 15_14_23.png

- The gates intendend for coding now stand out since there coloured in illuminant paint. Also every five nodes there position is marked via statue
- The area were junction boxes are supposed to be removed now looks more distinct from its surroundings and again has some marks that tell you what line your at
- heart statues now have gemspark wall corresponding to there wire colouring behind them
- A lot of irrelevant stuff has been painted with shadow paint for contrast

Created visual instructions for the coding process:
20220808151542_1.jpg



That should be much clearer to follow than my late night ramblings :D


I also made some additions to my personal version, that are not included in the shematics, for they are irrelavant but to main:
I) I added a delay mechanism that turns the dummy engine off after a minute
II) I repurposed your Target Dummy Speed measurement System - that brings me great joy, thx again - to be a tally counter

Therefor I can get a broad idea of how a pattern works, without having to bug you every time I try something out :cool:. My first try with the exorbitant redundancy approach - I connected all the statues in what basically boils down to a random order came in at aroung 165 - 170. That's an efficiency of 18% or less but still about 2,8 h/s. Seems precision isn't my thing, but I flourish on dumb luck ;)
 

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  • The Monster - fixed.zip
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You're making some real ground there - congrats.

So I tried and failed to calculate good patterns. The tally counter really helps with evaluation - it's hard to tell if something is good, but you can recognize if something is awful. Therefor I abandoned the heuristics approach and am now trying geometric patterns while hoping for the best. I think I got something solid (I tally it around 180 - but that's very unprecise [concentration, reaction time, don't double click etc]). Would be cool if you could test it.
 

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You're making some real ground there - congrats.

So I tried and failed to calculate good patterns. The tally counter really helps with evaluation - it's hard to tell if something is good, but you can recognize if something is awful. Therefor I abandoned the heuristics approach and am now trying geometric patterns while hoping for the best. I think I got something solid (I tally it around 180 - but that's very unprecise [concentration, reaction time, don't double click etc]). Would be cool if you could test it.

I'm not too sure on the changes you made, but I see it diffidently made some improvements.
Capture.PNG
 
I'm not too sure on the changes you made, but I see it diffidently made some improvements.
Well the thing is fixed and works as it should. All I need to figure out is in witch order to trigger the hearts - therein are the changes. There's literally gogols of possibilities :confused: . It seems to be on the right track though :D. You may have noticed that the top right lane never produces hearts - I'll try and figure out why that is next.
 
Well the thing is fixed and works as it should. All I need to figure out is in witch order to trigger the hearts - therein are the changes. There's literally gogols of possibilities :confused: . It seems to be on the right track though :D. You may have noticed that the top right lane never produces hearts - I'll try and figure out why that is next.

From my experiences and designs above, It's SUPER important to have it fire from top -> bottom. This gives time for hearts to move out of the way / be collected. Dealing with that 23 distance rule is a real challenge. I wish their was a way to move hearts even faster. This is now the real limitation for the statue rules at play.

EDIT: I have also compacted my clock counter. I wanted to share it with you since you seem to be using it.
I was not satisfied sharing such rushed and bulky circuity :dryadpassionate:
604-505.png


Fun facts I gathered, this this circuit is equal to a 1/2 timer. Both are equal to 2hz.
660-517.png
 

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It took me quite some time because I kept forgetting to do it, but I finally have the world download for my design.

I would like to know what you guys use to count heart collection per second rates, and where I could download it from, if that's possible.

(The design is almost directly above the spawn area, to the left, there's also an enemy spawner and the stationary heartreach based one I posted earlier)
 

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It took me quite some time because I kept forgetting to do it, but I finally have the world download for my design.

I would like to know what you guys use to count heart collection per second rates, and where I could download it from, if that's possible.

(The design is almost directly above the spawn area, to the left, there's also an enemy spawner and the stationary heartreach based one I posted earlier)

Awesome thanks for the world download! I use a custom coded mod to gather the heart rates. If you add me on discord (D.RUSS#2430) I will be happy to share it.

So for your design, in the non-stationary category, just took the world record.
Capture.PNG

Absolutely insane. If you can get just one more heart somewhere in there, it would be a perfect 60 hearts a second!
 
Awesome thanks for the world download! I use a custom coded mod to gather the heart rates. If you add me on discord (D.RUSS#2430) I will be happy to share it.

So for your design, in the non-stationary category, just took the world record.
View attachment 379921
Absolutely insane. If you can get just one more heart somewhere in there, it would be a perfect 60 hearts a second!

I didn't want to risk breaking the engine due to the possibility of uncollected hearts, but I probably could've put 2 statues for every teleporter, doubling the amount of hearts.

I'll have to do some more testing to see if that'll actually work, or if it will break.

My discord tag is Pmuuhzedci Sycdan#1310
 
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