Then why would I play a knockback-based melee character? The whole point of knockback-based weapons is being able to force enemies to stay away. If that tactic doesn't work with any reliability, then I may as well abandon the tactic for something that does reliably work.
That's what I was talking about in my reply; the player needs to feel like they're getting somewhere in the game. If a player sees that knockback is a property of weapons, and then starts selecting weapons and accessors that improve knockback, then they should see that actually work. Yes, some enemies are more resistant to knockback than others, but the basic tactic should be functional. If you keep putting monsters in the game that negate the player's choices, then what's the point of the player making them? What's the point of the massive variety of weapons and skills if the only reliable tactic is to be a ranged/magic character and learn to dodge?
I agree with almost all of your valid points made, but disagree with your approach. I didn't say we should remove knockback altogether, nor make gimmicks that invalidate a class. There are already monsters with attack patterns that can outright ignore knockback, or make simple Melee cheese (Note the word cheese, aka mindless leftclicking) become difficult or impossible against certain foes in Expert Mode. Noone complained.
As long as these gimmicks are not consistent stat changes, they won't even make a dent compared to bosses that don't even take any knockback to begin with. You can deal with a simple charging attack that has a low chance of occurring, even if it's just enough to make you on guard.
The key here, is an enemy that introduces a new challenge despite still letting you fight it reasonably, even if that means you gotta adjust your simple-minded strategy to be slightly more clever. Again, that's why this is for people who want "Master Mode" to be a thing.
The frequency and behaviour of these new attacks will obviously be determined in frequency and power by whatever balancing the devs think is fair.
This is already what Expert Mode started doing, and it's something I wish they finished. This is precisely why EoC has a sudden rapid-insane-speed charge near the end that completely ruins your ability to circle-camp on a small arena. They changed a few bosses by giving new gimmicks, and reduced overall knockback by 10% consistently. If anything, an overall 10% consistent nerf to all of knockback is far worse than an
occasional attack that
might reduce knockback on
some foes that have it. It's trivial as all hell.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying my specific examples were great. Maybe you're right and my suggestions sucked. I wrote them on the fly.
But that's why they were just examples; I want new stuff, new interesting AI patterns, new threats in Terraria that give me a sense of newfound challenge. Something else than goddamn stat changes, and I know I'm not the only one saying that.
And remember, this is being suggested for Master Mode - a mode that was introduced because not even Expert Mode, which was supposed to "shut up the elitists", succeeded at being hard enough. You're saying that Terraria shouldn't be Dark Souls - but for the devs to even consider making a higher difficulty, means that at least a significant enough part of the playerbase disagrees with you, and wants more hardcore brutal difficulty.
People like me do not want to be able to trivialize any portion of the game, and they're exactly the kind of people Master Mode is for. I want unforgiving, brutal difficulty that doesn't just become lamesauce as soon as the "lots of HP boss" is dead, and I wanna be forced to do my outmost best and feel like the game is exciting as I progress due to how powerful even simple foes can be if I'm careless.
You don't have to be as hardcore as these players, and you certainly don't have to do a full Master Mode playthrough. That's why this is optional. If you don't enjoy a fragrance of "dark souls" on your burger, you are free to opt out.
And if it ends up being too hard, they will obviously balance it with patches and changes, as that's what they'll have to do anyway no matter which approach they pick.
Better to try and succeed at a refreshing experience, than never to try at all.
Combinations of factors like this are why balancing enemy behaviors is so time-consuming. You can't just give monsters abilities in a vacuum and then just throw them in the game without a thought as to how they relate to each other.
Exactly. And that's why they should find out actual good ideas that don't completely invalidate an entire build or are legitimately so difficult that you can't win. Obviously. That's called balancing, and is something noone in this thread wants to ignore. It's up to the devs to find which gimmicks are fair, and which aren't. And if they do manage to make the difficulty more than mere stat changes to the point where it actually feels like a challenging and refreshing experience, I can't wait to get my hands on it and livestream my hilarious deaths on the first day, if there are any.