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In-depth Hardmode weapon tier list

SsIras

Terrarian
wait... how is cool whip even justifying a B tier then?
If it against a whole crowd has worse dps than a single target B tier weapon...
and is worse than a C tier crowd control weapon...
Not much I can say in it's defense really. Apparently Bacon was comparing it to Firecracker and those are the two best whips you can get at this stage of the game. But even if it is better than Firecracker, both seem terrible against bosses, so I think that reviewing that should be good.
 

J Bame

Terrarian
Before starting, Gear:
20200618211537_1.jpg


Yes that's a ranger emblem, I took the pic after testing and didn't realize until then. And no I'm not gonna do it again just so the numbers end up 15% bigger, just imagine it. Also 3 Enchanted Daggers and 2 Mini Twins, the ones you said you wanted to use.

So:
Cool whip sat at 500-600.
CoolWhip.jpg

Tho I won't hide that the Snowball a bit higher (667) when it decided to :red: off to some pirates below. No idea how many there were so don't take it as hard evidence for anything, though. Just thought I'd point it out.
667CoolWhip.jpg
Firecracker's max was 743.
743FireCracker.jpg

I would test how well Cool Whip would do on a denser crowd but Baconfry already did and he proved that it sucks even more there.

Conclusion: Even on crowds too dense for Firecracker, don't use Cool Whip unless you want to micro it perfectly.
 
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Doylee

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
@Derpling Ω , anyone who'd compare an Early-Hardmode Whip Weapon to a Daedalus Stormbow tier item is delusional. I'm done here... 😒🍹
Regardless of your opinion of the topic, your behavior in here is condescending and rude. If you don't like something, attacking someone because they don't test the same as you doesn't cement how "right you are" on a topic. Knock it off.
 

draeken

Terrarian
Naked whips
Cool whip: 50x2 + 10x3 = 130 dps . (snowflake hitrate is approximate)
Firecracker with spider: 40x2+ 26x4 =184dps . ( explosion is x3 but I substract the original spider dmg).
Considering that the snowflake does not benefit from damage boosts of any kind, and that you can use stronger minions, the differences can get big:
If the enemy has 30 armor:
Susbtract 60 from cracker and 30 from cool:
Cool 100
cracker 124
With just spider armor and exquisitely stuffed (36%)
Cool whip: 136+30 = 166
firecracker with spider: 184*1.36 = 250
With armor:
Cool 130
Cracker 190

Spider armor, stuffed, wrath potion, emblem, 4 menacings ( 26+10+10+15+16 = 79%)

Cool whip: 179+30 = 219
firecracker with sanguine: (40x2+35x4)*1.79= 394
Wirh armor:
Cool 199
Cracker 334
PS: can any1 give me the speed buff numbers of the snapthorn and durendal?
 
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J Bame

Terrarian
# Hallowed Jousting Lance: F
I don't know what content this was supposed to work well against. It definitely can't handle the Solar Eclipse, it can't handle Ogres, and it can't handle the remaining mechanical bosses either, assuming that you killed the Destroyer first. The only thing this works well against is the Destroyer itself, but the Destroyer gets wrecked by basically everything (including the Hellwing Bow and Beenades), so forgive me if I'm not impressed. Under no circumstances should you ever seriously consider using the Hallowed Jousting Lance.
I actually found this to be unironically solid against Master Mode Prime, ofc with support from Cross Necklace, SoC, Titanium Barrier and BoC. You can run at the same pace as the spin attack and he just doesn't have a way to truly punish you while close to him, so you get to profit off the Titanium Barrier + the Lance's DPS when buffed by SoC's acceleration.

Trying to use it on any of the other mechs goes horribly wrong every time and it probably has 0 uses outside of that, just felt like pointing this out.
 

Derpling Ω

Plantera
I actually found this to be unironically solid against Master Mode Prime, ofc with support from Cross Necklace, SoC, Titanium Barrier and BoC. You can run at the same pace as the spin attack and he just doesn't have a way to truly punish you while close to him, so you get to profit off the Titanium Barrier + the Lance's DPS when buffed by SoC's acceleration.

Trying to use it on any of the other mechs goes horribly wrong every time and it probably has 0 uses outside of that, just felt like pointing this out.
What about the normal Jousting Lance you get from the Zoologist? Is it still too weak even in this situation?
 

Baconfry

Terrarian
After some testing, I've arrived at the conclusion that the Hallowed Jousting Lance is at least better than Gungnir. It indeed hurts Prime pretty badly in Expert mode, and I didn't even bother trying to use SoC offensively against him. I think the trick is to stop thinking of it as "Hallowed Jousting Lance" and instead think of it like "Hallowed Shortsword", since it works just fine when you jab it into something directly. Don't bother charging with it.

Pre-mech Jousting Lance might be better than Anchor and Slap Hand, maybe. I seriously doubt that any Jousting Lance is better than D, and I don't want to mislead people into thinking that they're good at all, but F might be a little bit too harsh. Anyone else have any experiences to share regarding jousting lances?
 

SsIras

Terrarian
After some testing, I've arrived at the conclusion that the Hallowed Jousting Lance is at least better than Gungnir. It indeed hurts Prime pretty badly in Expert mode, and I didn't even bother trying to use SoC offensively against him. I think the trick is to stop thinking of it as "Hallowed Jousting Lance" and instead think of it like "Hallowed Shortsword", since it works just fine when you jab it into something directly. Don't bother charging with it.

Pre-mech Jousting Lance might be better than Anchor and Slap Hand, maybe. I seriously doubt that any Jousting Lance is better than D, and I don't want to mislead people into thinking that they're good at all, but F might be a little bit too harsh. Anyone else have any experiences to share regarding jousting lances?
I had similar thoughts, lances are very quirky weapons but there is no way to use their effects well. Using them without these effects is pretty bad, and there is probably one decent boss fight you can use it. I think I did prefer Gungnir actually, but either way, there is better uses for hallowed bars, such as selling them and using the gold as Coin Gun ammo.
 

khs8157

Terrarian
I've been playing with Super Star Shooter in the Journey mode, and found out that Unreal might not be the best modifier for Super Star Shooter. Due to the invincibility frame caused by piercing damage, Unreal modifier makes it hit the enemies every other shot. Modifiers that decrease the speed, namely Powerful/Slow/Sluggish/Lethargic, makes enemies get hit more often, actually increasing the damage output. Which one of these is the best depends on the size of the enemy. For stationary enemies with two tiles hitbox (tested with Target Dummy, shot horizontally), Powerful is the best. For stationary enemies with three tiles hitbox (tested with Target dummy, shot vertically), Slow/Sluggish/Lethargic is the best. In general, for small enemies that are not resistant to knockback, Slow/Sluggish/Lethargic was better from my experience, but I couldn't do any solid test on this.

For very large enemies, like Golem's body and other big bosses, Unreal is the best since they get hit from almost every shot due to their large hitbox, but I believe most people wouldn't use it for bossing.

As a bonus, using Powerful/Slow/Sluggish/Lethargic modifier is more ammo-efficient, which is pretty important since ammo is the main reason we don't use this weapon.
 

KelvinM6WF

Terrarian
I'm not really familiar with the balance of the game yet, so I can't say this is accurate or not, but it sure seems consistent with the experiences I've previously had and the tests I've done after reading this, really good insights into the weapons' functionality! I feel pretty confident in my knowledge on Mage gear balance and progression now, and plan to delve into ranged next as it's my second-favorite class, gonna be fun to figure out at which stages* each class dominates and falls short.

Class imbalances like that are kinda cool to me (Even if you could just swap in this game), I hated playing caster in Dark Souls but it had it's moments where it struggled, and even if I didn't enjoy the gameplay, it's just so interesting to see the positive and negative match-ups emerge from the properties of your gear/playstyle vs. the encounter at hand. I was quite shocked to read in one of your comments the Death Sickle is great vs. Plantera yet Mages struggle, for example. I figured the Venom Staff was very fit for the job, and totally thought Deathsickle was merely a utility-focused weapon for a class I assumed struggled the most with good ranged dps at all stages of progression.
 

Derpling Ω

Plantera
I was quite shocked to read in one of your comments the Death Sickle is great vs. Plantera yet Mages struggle, for example. I figured the Venom Staff was very fit for the job, and totally thought Deathsickle was merely a utility-focused weapon for a class I assumed struggled the most with good ranged dps at all stages of progression.
Mage got buffed so much in this update that plantera is not nearly as headache inducing as it used to be. The venom staff used to be completely awful because it's projectiles gave so many iframes that only one of them in the entire shotgun spread hit, and the Death Sickle is the only melee weapon that's good for grinding things to pieces at range (it's one of the few melee weapons that can actually do that). Fighting plantera as mage used to be like fighting wall of flesh as melee: it just didn't work.
 

KelvinM6WF

Terrarian
Mage got buffed so much in this update that plantera is not nearly as headache inducing as it used to be. The venom staff used to be completely awful because it's projectiles gave so many iframes that only one of them in the entire shotgun spread hit, and the Death Sickle is the only melee weapon that's good for grinding things to pieces at range (it's one of the few melee weapons that can actually do that). Fighting plantera as mage used to be like fighting wall of flesh as melee: it just didn't work.
Ahhhh, I totally thought Venom Staff had been in this state for a while, didn't even realize it was 1.4! Awesome, and thx for letting me know
 

652Graystripe

Plantera
With Exploding Bullets/Hellfire Arrows, I've found that some will pass through enemies if using a shotgun-type weapon, probably due to how i-frames work with explosions. Don't know if that diminishes their utility at all, but it's especially notable with the Chlorophyte Shotbow.

Additionally, with the Blade Staff, the swords don't seem to deal any knockback by default, which of course removes the ability to stunlock. The wiki claims that food buffs will give it knockback, but I haven't tested that. What's your opinion?
 

sharkman0101

Spazmatism
I've been using Starlight on Master Mode just to see how good it was, and range is definitely a problem. However, having challenged Empress before Martian Madness and the pillars (albeit less-so, since you can just run in and out of the Solar Pillar to get yourself the immensely better Solar Eruption), I can say it has a little bit of use there for tearing down crowds. It's not as range-deprived as other high-speed melee weapons, making it useful for more dense crowds that don't take up a lot of space. Naturally, it wasn't that hard to avoid damage either due to its extra bit of range and the mobility provided for you this late in the game.

Using the Starlight, crowds of Gray Grunts, Martian Walkers, Engineers, and Gigazappers were torn down pretty quickly, whereas other weapons Melee has might take a bit longer and leave you a bit more open.

Hell, I even used the Starlight against the Martian Saucer. The Saucer is definitely a lot slower than previously, and I found it safe to use on the Saucer when it was doing either of its laser-based attacks due to the speed you could get using wings like Steampunk or better. It shredded the Saucer impressively quick. Of course, when Phase 2 came around, it was better to just dash dance and use a weapon with more range.

As for ranking, I'd say your ranking is pretty accurate, but a hidden gem in certain areas. Considering that Fetid Baghnakhs are quite powerful and serve a similar niche but are one tier ranking higher (at B), I'm sure Starlight could stand to be moved up to B- simply because of its sheer power and capability of doing away with hoards you have the capacity to maneuver around, giving you more time to deal with other threats. Just my observation, though.
 

J Bame

Terrarian
# Keybrand: C
With any competent melee loadout, this should kill most dungeon enemies in two hits. But here's the problem: in Classic mode, most enemies don't have that much health, so the Keybrand's special effect won't contribute much. In Expert and Master mode, enemies have more health, but there's no way you're using the Keybrand because it's a short-ranged broadsword. You couldn't have gotten this far in Expert/Master mode without learning to keep your distance from dangerous enemies, after all. So the Keybrand ends up being a sort of inferior Psycho Knife clone 100% of the time, but at least it's usable, and you can have fun with it if you like seeing big numbers and pretty lights.

.............DPS: ####
Crowd control: ####

......Accuracy: n/a
.....Disruption: ####
..........Safety: #
....Availability: ####

0.5% chance to drop from Armored Bones of any type
Best prefix: Legendary $
Hot take incoming, I actually think this is one of the best melee weapons of the tier, and the best that isn't long-ranged.

The thing is so strong that, with Cross Necklace and Frozen Shield, it allows you to literally walk through normal enemies. There is not a lot of stuff that is actually a problem for you, either. In the Dungeon you only have to be careful with the Tactical and Commando skeletons, and in Eclipses just avoid it on Butchers since their chainsaw hitbox extends further than their hurtbox. You can even make it work on Martians if you are careful enough.

It complements perfectly with Terra Blade (or pretty much anything with long range) during the Moon Events; get the minibosses down to about 60% to sauce up Keybrand and then go in for the quick kill. That same strategy works on Golem and Fishron as well, just with a bit more care.

That part about it being a weaker Psycho Knife is... not true? Idk, I keep trying both and they both seem just as strong, DPS wise (this is definitely a 5/5 DPS, btw) so I end up using Keybrand for the longer range and the fancier visuals.
 

draeken

Terrarian
If you use psycho knife vs keybrand (averaging dmg bonus to half max), their dps is very similar. Keybrand has slighly better range, and if the enemy goes from 50%hp to 0%hp, it has significantly higher dps. I'm pretty clueless about true melee weapons, so I'm not going to comment on their practical power level.
This is assuming the enemy takes multiple hits before dying. If it only takes 1 or 2, psycho is stronger
 

Baconfry

Terrarian
Additionally, with the Blade Staff, the swords don't seem to deal any knockback by default, which of course removes the ability to stunlock. The wiki claims that food buffs will give it knockback, but I haven't tested that. What's your opinion?
Food buffs do improve minion knockback, which bumps the Blade Staff's knockback to non-zero, allowing it to stunlock things HARD. Food is really, really easy to obtain now, so the fact that you need food to gain knockback is not really a relevant point against the Blade Staff, probably.

I'm sure Starlight could stand to be moved up to B- simply because of its sheer power and capability of doing away with hoards you have the capacity to maneuver around, giving you more time to deal with other threats.
I dunno about Starlight. If we consider the equipment dropped by Martians/Fishron/Empress/F. Moon the "pre-Lunar" tier, Starlight has to be among the worst weapons in that tier for sure. It's flashy, but it looks a lot stronger than it actually is. While its DPS is high, it's not high enough to offset its obvious drawbacks.

That part about it being a weaker Psycho Knife is... not true? Idk, I keep trying both and they both seem just as strong, DPS wise (this is definitely a 5/5 DPS, btw) so I end up using Keybrand for the longer range and the fancier visuals.
Maybe I'm just not positioning myself properly, but I had a positively awful time trying to fight Mourning Woods, Santa-NK1s and Everscreams with a Keybrand. It was hard enough trying to avoid taking contact damage, and the spiky things that kept getting blasted in my face weren't helping, either. Fishron wasn't manageable with the Keybrand at all. Its DPS is great, but trying to fight at close range won't work at all in many situations, and unless my DPS meter was lying to me, the Keybrand's DPS on a wounded enemy is about the same as the Psycho Knife's normal DPS.


If anyone is wondering why I've been somewhat quiet for a while and only started replying again now, it's because my Runescape membership ran out today.
 

J Bame

Terrarian
Maybe I'm just not positioning myself properly, but I had a positively awful time trying to fight Mourning Woods, Santa-NK1s and Everscreams with a Keybrand. It was hard enough trying to avoid taking contact damage,
That last part should be your mistake. You are not going to avoid contact damage no matter what, so your best shot is to just soak it up and win the DPS race. Since the minibosses drop so many hearts, you are not going to lose as much health as you think, especially with Frozen Shield reducing damage by a lot.
 

SsIras

Terrarian
That last part should be your mistake. You are not going to avoid contact damage no matter what, so your best shot is to just soak it up and win the DPS race. Since the minibosses drop so many hearts, you are not going to lose as much health as you think, especially with Frozen Shield reducing damage by a lot.
This actually works really well, even in master mode, though it was very costly, I was using Celestial Shell, Mechanical Glove, Star Veil, Worm Scarf and Frozen Shield. It's a good to use the Keybrand as a secondary weapon, as using it for anything other than finishing an opponent make it look like garbage.
 
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