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Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

MrD108

Official Terrarian
3.Nerf Magiluminescence or move it to endgame.
4.Slightly nerf the Winged Slime Mount.
I do not support this.

3. Magiluminescence is a purely mobility accessory that is most useful on the seed of The Constand. Weakening would kill this accessory, and at the end of the game you practically don't walk anymore, just fly, teleport or ride a wagon. Magiluminescence is in the perfect place and performs well as a purely mobile accessory.

4. Winged Slime Mount is simply a Slime Mount with wings and a short flight, there is nothing to weaken here, unless the wings are only supposed to be cosmetic, or rather that's not the point.
 

violet & beige

Terrarian
Any kind of weapon remaking or AI changing seems not to happen, bro. Leinfors has his limit.
I've been considering if Magiluminescence should be nerfed, and the final answer is, not necessary. It does make the mining helmet useless in a way, but the minng helmet itself isn't important, so let it be.
Weird, I do believe that we can both communicate in Chinese, but I'm still typing English. Maybe I'm just not willing to make "encryption calls" lol
Here are some advices from the Chinese community:
1.Nerf Obsidian Armor and give other summon armors whip bonus.
2.Disable or lower the spawn rate of regular enemies during boss fights.
3.Nerf Magiluminescence or move it to endgame.
4.Slightly nerf the Winged Slime Mount.
5.Remake Nettle Burst, Leaf Blower, Wasp Gun, Heat Ray and Golem Fist so that they can be stronger, or at least buff them.
6.Remake enraged Duke Fishron AI to make it more aggressive and hazardous.

And if you are going to nerf Hollow Armor, Plzzzzzzzzzzzz don't do it.
 

CellarDoor96

Terrarian
There's been a lot of discussion about certain minions, mainly mid-Hardmode ones like Deadly Spheres and Pygmies. Here are my two cents:

What seems to separate good minions from bad minions is not their damage or their attack rate, but their accuracy and their reliability in focusing on a given enemy. When boiled down, there are three basic types of minion: those that fire projectiles, those that ram enemies, and those that try to stick to enemies for continuous damage. If we consider good and bad examples from each subgroup, we can see that there are certain variables that differ between them and could potentially be adjusted.

Projectile minions
Good: UFOs, Stardust Cells
Bad: Pygmies, Sharknadoes, Bees, Imps
Because minions can't lead their shots, minions that shoot projectiles are inherently flawed unless they have some mechanic that compensates for this - in the case of UFOs, their lasers are hitscan so they hit instantly, while Stardust Cells' minicells seem to have some homing ability. Since complicated AI changes are out of the question now, there isn't much that could be done to fix the rest entirely, but giving some or all of them another boost to projectile velocity would help a lot.

Ramming minions
Good: Sanguine bats, Blades, Terraprisma
Bad: Spazmamini, Ravens, Deadly Spheres
By "ramming" I mean those that fly through enemies with each attack, which forces them to turn around to attack the same enemy again. These are pretty simple because the main dividing factor is their ramming velocity. If they fly faster when attacking, then not only are they more accurate, but they can start their next attack sooner. As a result I think increasing the ramming speed of Spazmamini, Ravens, and Deadly Spheres would go a long way toward making them more viable.

Facehugging minions
Good: Abigail, Flinxes, Stardust Dragon, Tiger, Spiders, Vampire Frogs
Bad: Pirates, Slimes
For these it's less clear what differentiates the good from the bad, especially since in general they tend to be better than the other types of minions. The biggest factor imo seems to be their ability to stick to airborne enemies; it's telling that the Tiger was trash tier at first when it lacked this ability, then when it finally gained it it instantly ascended to top tier. It's also telling that Spiders are only really good if they have background walls to climb on, otherwise they're kind of bad. Not sure how complicated it would be to improve Pirates' ability to bounce on airborne enemies, so unless that turns out to be simpler than I think then I don't really have any suggestions for this subgroup.

Also, it doesn't affect just one of these subgroups, but several minions additionally suffer from being unable to attack when trying to catch up with the player. Ravens, Pygmies, and Sharknadoes are the biggest offenders. Some good minions like Sanguine bats, Blades, and Terraprisma are also unable to attack while catching up, but they move MUCH faster when doing so, so their downtime is far less. If it's possible to increase the "catching up" velocity of the offending minions to alleviate this, then it would make them way better in general and they might not even need any other buffs.
 
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4. Winged Slime Mount is simply a Slime Mount with wings and a short flight, there is nothing to weaken here, unless the wings are only supposed to be cosmetic, or rather that's not the point.
It’s not really. Gelatinous Pillion has a surprising amount of speed in every direction: not only is its vertical speed great by being a slime mount, which is already a powerful feature, but it also has insane horizontal speed. Its base is 33 mph, which is similar to the highest tier of boots, except it has more accelaration. It also has incredible downward diagonal speed at 116 (diagonal) mph, meaning that running many short hops will allow it to keep pace with and outspeed unicorn.

Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I’d propose a nerf to its horizontal speed but leave its vertical speed untouched and allow it to be the selling point of the mount.
 

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
4. Winged Slime Mount is simply a Slime Mount with wings and a short flight, there is nothing to weaken here, unless the wings are only supposed to be cosmetic, or rather that's not the point.
The main issue with Pillion's horizontal movement is extremely high acceleration.
Without dash (SoC) :
Terraspark: 34 mph, acceleration from 0 to 34 in 4 seconds
Pillion: 33 mph, acceleration from 0 to 33 in 1 second
This translates into ~4x faster acceleration.

With dash (SoC):
Terraspark gain their speed instantly.
However: Boots and shield require 2 accessory slots, which could be used to significantly strengthen your character.
 

MomoThePony

Retinazer
I do not support this.

3. Magiluminescence is a purely mobility accessory that is most useful on the seed of The Constand. Weakening would kill this accessory, and at the end of the game you practically don't walk anymore, just fly, teleport or ride a wagon. Magiluminescence is in the perfect place and performs well as a purely mobile accessory.

4. Winged Slime Mount is simply a Slime Mount with wings and a short flight, there is nothing to weaken here, unless the wings are only supposed to be cosmetic, or rather that's not the point.
Magiluminescence gives an incredible speed and acceleration bonus while being a pre-boss accessory.

Winged Slime Mount has high mobility and can replace wings, boots and dashing accessories during most hardmode boss fights.
 

Hyperkatmanders

Official Terrarian
- [Nerf] Obsidian armor: whip range 50% --> 25%, melee speed 35% --> 12%

- [Adjust] Forbidden armor: Though I know it's a counterpart to the Frost armor, still I want to say, no magician would choose this, let it be all for the summoner, as an upgraded version for the Obsidian armor. (They look really similar!)
Forbidden Mask: +25% melee speed
Forbidden Robes: +40% whip range, +1 minion slot
Forbidden Treads: +1 minion slot
Set bonus: in adiition to summon acient storm skill, extra bonus +33% minion dmg
As compensation for nerfing the obsidian armor, it might calm the anger of players? The stats may still be too high as it's stage, I'm not really sure. Dispersing bonuses across individual pieces of armor may create interesting mash-ups, I'd like to see.

- [Adjust] Shinobi Infiltrator armor: As the ultimate whip-buffing armor.
Shinobi Infiltrator's Helmet: 8 def, +20% minion dmg, +2 sentries slot
Shinobi Infiltrator's Torso: 16 def, +20% minion dmg, +35% melee speed
Shinobi Infiltrator's Pants: 12 def, +20% minion dmg, +50% whip range, +30% movement speed


- [Buff] Spider armor: gives a set bonus of +22% minion dmg.

- [Buff] Tiki armor: gives a set bonus of +3 minion slot. Huge-crowd strategy will work!

- [Buff] Meteor armor: increase armor def to 19 ( +6, +7, +6 ). Since it was moved to post-EOW/BOC, It should have same def as others in the same period. A defence of 16 is totally unconvincing.
1. Your Obsidian nerf is about on par with others, but most people say 30% range and 10% speed, I’m ok with it
2. Forbidden armor is a pretty hybrid set, killing hybrid armors is a bad idea and reworking armors entirely just won’t happen
3. Sigh Shinobi Infiltrator literally can’t be changed, it’s a crossover armor, that’s how it works in Dungeon Defenders 2, it’s a “light melee” set compared to the “heavy melee” set, which is Valhalla
4. Spider armor isn’t terrible I’m pretty sure it’s decent, just outclassed by Obsidian armor right? I don’t think it needs a buff, though(As far as I’m aware I’m very knowledge lacking when it comes to this class)
5. Tiki armor change is... weird, It would be about on par if not better than Spooky no? I’m not sure but having more minions is a huge damage boost(4 minions 60% damage vs 6 minions 30% damage)
6. Meteor armor was always supposed to be Post Evil Boss, a defense increase isn’t deserved because that gives it the same defense as Necro, it’s also a Mage armor, so it’s supposed to have lower defense than Melee or Ranger, so... yeah, it’s not needed especially with the damage increase
 

Dr. Flavin

Skeletron
Magiluminescence gives an incredible speed and acceleration bonus while being a pre-boss accessory.

Winged Slime Mount has high mobility and can replace wings, boots and dashing accessories during most hardmode boss fights.
Magiluminescence is, admittedly, pretty strong, double acceleration and deceleration and +20% move speed is real good, but it's also nice having a powerful mobility accessory that doesn't require gold chest loot rando enemy drops or fishing, and I don't really think it unbalances the move speed accessory meta much, it's just a really nice option that can even be useful late game, but you also have to sacrifice a slot for it, it's balanced. Like the Frog leg before tinkers upgrades made them better than lightning boots.

As for winged Slime? I've used it and I've got to say it's probably one of the most underrated mounts in the game, It comes with some serious acceleration, but the real star of the show is the fall speed, over 100 MPH, just as much as it's pre-hardmode cousin, you can use the mount in midair to descend much faster than normal which is invaluable both for boss fights and exploration. With the mounts wing's however you can abuse this much easier than before, as it's current stats let it compete with and even outperform other mounts by using the wings to ascend and descend rapidly. Yeah, might need a small nerf. Making the accent speed a bit slower should do it, no point to nerfing the fall speed, it's the mounts defining feature and the Slimy Saddle has the same stats and use.
 
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violet & beige

Terrarian
If you mean only Sentries this is true, but that has little to nothing to do with whips at all. "other summoning weapons" are minions & whips and most of them are fine and great to use, so I don't understand. When it comes to unviable minions, this is also not a problem with whips, simply themselves being unviable.
There seems to be some misunderstanding. I can tell there's consensus between us, but you keep refuting, it make think of maybe I have inadvertently emphasized the wrong part. I noticed you felt unhappy about what I said "The whip narrows summoner's options somewhat". That's my misdescription. The truth is, I'm not trying to blame or dwarf the whips. I just want those buried minions (who can't efficiantly take advantage of whips) to be seen and to be new options. So don't feel unhappy about it, let's talk about further improvements of the game.

Bunch of minions lack usability, they need real improvements. That's the key part, which is about gameplay and variety. The easiest way I can come up with is to increase stats, but I'm not sure whether the problem can be solved by this. They probably need a change in their behavior to make a significant difference, or I just say, to make them look more intelligent, which might not be easy to do. CellarDoor96's comment above gives a thorough analysis and I want to say that's amazing. I don't really know the underlying realization mechanism, but if some basic chages can make a huge difference to minion's usability, that will be good. That's what I'm most looking forward to with this update, to make those dumb minions as useful as they should be.

Almost every optimized & efficient Summoner builds uses whips. But I'd love to have Tiki armor obtain Whip bonuses. Perhaps current Obsidian armor with higher defense?
There should to be a post-Plantera armor with high whip bonuses, just like the Obsidian armor right now. Since it's almost imposible to add a new armor, I'm not sure which one is appropriate for modifying. Tiki is almost the only one choice, I just don't think its style fits... It looks better with a crowd of Pygmies.


This game does not need & can no longer handle adding and balancing "+35% melee speed" accessories and similar for a whip balance overhaul.
What I truly mean is that whips don't need any extra speed. Existing accessories is already enough for choosing. Switching whips to gain speed ain't necessary, either. Whip-stacking somehow makes whips with special effects become more powerful than they should be. On the other hand, if a whip requires whip-stacking to reach a satisfying DPS or whatever, then it should be enhanced on its own. I consider whip-stacking as a bug, not some sort of gameplay, that's the point where I don't agree with you.


Typing English is killing me... Though I may make some misdescription and misunderstanding, I don't really want to cause arguments. Just share opinions and hope our discussion here may ispire someone and have them put forward useful suggestions.
 

Shyguymask

Terrarian
What I truly mean is that whips don't need any extra speed. Existing accessories is already enough for choosing. Switching whips to gain speed ain't necessary, either. Whip-stacking somehow makes whips with special effects become more powerful than they should be. On the other hand, if a whip requires whip-stacking to reach a satisfying DPS or whatever, then it should be enhanced on its own. I consider whip-stacking as a bug, not some sort of gameplay, that's the point where I don't agree with you.
Without whip stacking, Whip-focused Summoner mostly becomes outshined by optimized Mage, Ranger and even Mixed/Hybrid Summoner. Morning Star in particular would become downright unusable. Removing whip stacking would immediately and massively harm the balance of Summoner, and even if we wanted to do a balance overhaul to "make up for it", it's too late.

Why is it being a "bug" bad, exactly? How is it "not gameplay"? By that logic Wavedashing in Melee is "not gameplay" and should be removed. It's not truly a "bug" but it's still fits as an example. What about BLJ in Mario 64 speedrunning? Should it be removed, is it "not gameplay"? The warp glitches in Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow GBA, what's the harm of leaving them in the game for returning players looking to spice up a playthrough or speedrun the game? The point is that many bugs are at worst harmless and at best improves the gameplay. This applies especially to Terraria, as I said whip stacking improves the balance of the game and the game at its current state would be much worse without it from a balance perspective alone.
 

MasterworkStone

Duke Fishron
At least ReLogic's 1.4 nerfs had reason behind them, like the Reaver Shark was nerfed because it was interfering with progression by allowing you to skip the evil bosses, I don't entirely agree with that change but it's one that makes sense.
The nerfs I've seen suggested so far don't make sense to me, they seem like their only purpose is to make a good item less good.
 

GoldenTerrabyte

Empress of Light
At least ReLogic's 1.4 nerfs had reason behind them, like the Reaver Shark was nerfed because it was interfering with progression by allowing you to skip the evil bosses, I don't entirely agree with that change but it's one that makes sense.
The nerfs I've seen suggested so far don't make sense to me, they seem like their only purpose is to make a good item less good.
That's kind of my problem, too. Items should be allowed to be powerful, it's a big part of the game's appeal.
Difficulty also matters a lot, people need to remember that the game has multiple difficulty options, and almost every weapon will feel OP if you're in Classic difficulty and playing as optimally as possible.
A lot of suggestions also seem to want to nerf items that have synergy with one another, which I feel goes against the nature of how fun it is to play with different combinations of items. That's not something that should be discouraged, I think.
 

Dr. Flavin

Skeletron
Hoo, alright, I think I've recovered from my last one in the morning text wall, I've still got a few ideas left in my brain.
Here goes.

Pre-Hardmode Weapons:


Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 29 to 38

- Once the cream of the crop of pre-hardmode weapons, power creep has not treated the Dark Lance and it's other spear brethren well, falling behind all other shadow chest loot by a fair margin.

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 42 to 52
Increase item size by 15%

- Speaking of things that were once the best in a time long past, the Night's Edge has been buffed substantially yet still falls behind in performance to the Star Fury, which is just a Gravity potion away. It's a post-Skeletron item, yet it's a terrible choice for the Wall of Flesh, the only boss you would reasonably use it on, and after that there are a plethora of better options in hardmode.

Hardmode Weapons:


Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 43 to 55

- In it's current state the Breaker blade is a serviceable, if slightly underwhelming weapon that can keep hardmode enemies at bay decently, with the aforementioned buffs to the Night's Edge however it will become mostly obsolete. With a damage buff it'll still fall behind the Night's Edge in DPS but will be able to deal with lower health enemies more effectively with it's double damage on healthy enemies ability.

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 42 to 60
Decrease number of crystal shards to craft from 50 to 25

- Fifty shards is a lot to ask for something that isn't even as good as a tier three ore sword.

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 49 to 60
Decrease use time from 18 to 16

- This thing got nerfed like two years ago and I have no idea why.

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 100 to 115
Decrease number of soul of light & night to craft from 7 to 5

- The Dao of Pow is too difficult to craft for it's power level.

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 40 to 60
Increase max tile range from 17 blocks to 21
Change drop from a 1/1000 chance from any hardmode enemy during a blood moon to a 1/10 chance from Clown's

- This item's drop conditions feel out of place, not to mention how weak it is. Giving it a reasonable drop rate from Clown's feels more thematically appropriate and more likely to actually see use in a playthrough.

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 26 to 33
Increase Velocity from 14 to 28

- Without grinding Old's One's Army or the Ice Biome Chest this is the only pre-Moon Lord hardmode sentry you get. It sucks.

Suggested Change(s):
Splash damage projectiles now deal half of the weapons damage instead of half to equal the weapons damage.

- This thing is bonkers, the amount of damage this pre-mech boss weapon deals is crazy, with the splash projectiles being able hit the original target it excels both in boss killing and crowd control, cutting the damage of the burst in half should turn this from being able to last till after Duke Fishron to just a mech destroyer and a good option for Plantera.

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 130 to 150

- Despite being post-Plantera, the Flower Pow barely beats out the Drippler Crippler, a Pre-mech boss flail, in damage, it just needs a little boost to help it compete with other melees.

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 120 to 130
Greatly increase velocity of sparks

- The Butcher's Chainsaw suffers from the same situation as the Candy Corn Rifle, it's not bad, but there's a weapon that's just objectively better in the same event, the sparks effect is barely even noticeable, maybe increasing the range of the sparks will make them more impactful?

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 85 to 86(hehe)
Stealth mode is now activated and deactivated manually by double tapping the armor set bonus key like Vortex Armor, stealth mode is still lost automatically under the same conditions

- The Psycho Knife's stealth mode is potentially very powerful but is too slow to be practical in it's current state, the ability to manually activate it would turn it from a gimmick to a powerful ability, giving it an even higher risk reward factor on an already high risk high reward weapon. Which would be fun.

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 85 to 90
Decrease use time from 20 to 18

- The Keybrand does too little damage to justify using it over the Psycho Knife, plain and simple. If it did notably more than the Psycho Knife on low health targets then it would be worth using.

Accessories:

Suggested Change(s):
Aglet:

Increase move speed bonus from 5% to 10%

- The Aglet is hilariously useless, even for a surface chest accessory, a whole one extra mile per hour!? Terraria you spoil me!

Anklet of The Wind:
Increase move speed bonus from 10% to 20%
Acceleration and deceleration is increased by 50% while equipped

- You know what's better than an accessory that give you one extra mile per hour of move speed? An accessory that gives two of course. Man Magiluminescence makes these seem bad.

Lightning Boots(And upgrades):
Increase base speed from 34 MPH to 36 MPH(Basically an extra 10% move speed)
Acceleration and deceleration is increased by 50% while equipped

- Lightning boots have been power crept by Amphibian Boots. And honestly? The 4 MPH boost the lightning boots gave over Hermes Boots always felt a little unimpactful, and every upgrade after that is pretty much quality of life, these buffs might make them more worth using over their froggy counterpart, speaking of...

Suggested Change(s):

Decrease ascent speed bonus from 48% to 35% the bonus from the frog leg and upgrades other than the Amphibian Boots remains unchanged

- Amphibian Boots are better than Lightning boots, a 48% vertical speed bonus is huge. A basic set of hardmode wings has a max ascent speed of 32 MPH, with Amphibian Boots that's upped to about 47 MPH, an increase of fifteen with the weakest hardmode wings, and it only gets better from there. This is a controversial change, admittedly. But I think it would be best if you had to either sacrifice a full slot for the full effect without the Hermes Boots, or get a weaker version of the effect the Hermes Boots.

Suggested Change(s):
Decrease ascent speed bonus from 48% to 10%
Remove acceleration bonus

- Infinite flight time is already amazing, the fact it gives the Frog Leg bonus and an acceleration bonus makes this accessory borderline mandatory. There is no reason not to have this if you use wings.

Alright I think that's enough, man I'm tired...
 
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CellarDoor96

Terrarian
Maybe this is selfish to say but I am strongly against nerfing any mobility option. I'd rather other things be buffed to compete with them, if anything. As far as I'm concerned, the faster the better when it comes to mobility in games, as long as it doesn't make literally everything braindead easy like the old Black Spot.
 

Dr. Flavin

Skeletron
Maybe this is selfish to say but I am strongly against nerfing any mobility option. I'd rather other things be buffed to compete with them, if anything. As far as I'm concerned, the faster the better when it comes to mobility in games, as long as it doesn't make literally everything braindead easy like the old Black Spot.
Honestly, fair. I mainly just think Terraria wasn't really designed around having nearly double Flight speed with infinite duration. I dunno, I just don't ever use Amphibian Boots or the Soaring Insignia because it feels cheap. Like I've cheated the game, and also myself by doing it. I don't ever build teleporter highways for Moon lord for the same reasons. Might just be a me thing though.
 

J Bame

Terrarian
Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 29 to 38

- Once the cream of the crop of pre-hardmode weapons, power creep has not treated the Dark Lance and it's other spear brethren well, falling behind all other shadow chest loot by a fair margin.
Damage buff is greatly appreciated, not sure if it will help against the WoF though, the hitbox isn't big enough to keep hungries away.
Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 42 to 52
Increase item size by 15%

- Speaking of things that were once the best in a time long past, the Night's Edge has been buffed substantially yet still falls behind in performance to the Star Fury, which is just a Gravity potion away. It's a post-Skeletron item, yet it's a terrible choice for the Wall of Flesh, the only boss you would reasonably use it on, and after that there are a plethora of better options in hardmode.
Night's Edge is currently melee's best option against the Wall and has one of the fastest kill times against it, beaten only by Obsidian armor/Snaptap, Star Cannon, and unrealisitcally greedy Hellwing Bow/Demon Scythe strategies that make you stand on top of the wall to hit 3 eyes at once.

It doesn't need a DPS buff. If anything, make it a little bigger so less experienced players are less scared to use it on the wall.
Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 49 to 60
Decrease use time from 18 to 16

- This thing got nerfed like two years ago and I have no idea why.
Cutlass used to be better than Excalibur, and it's still noticeably better than all ore swords. Hell, this change makes it better than current excalibur.

And yes, im aware that all those swords are bad, but you can't just buff one sword and keep all others in the dark, and a fix to all of thm is almost a patch of its own.
Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 26 to 33
Increase Velocity from 14 to 28

- Without grinding Old's One's Army or the Ice Biome Chest this is the only pre-Moon Lord hardmode sentry you get. It sucks.
No, it does not. Its DPS is actually better than the Tavernkeep T2 sentries, even with their set bonuses.

What this needs is more available sentry slots... but that's asking for new items altogether.
Splash damage projectiles now deal half of the weapons damage instead of half to equal the weapons damage.

- This thing is bonkers, the amount of damage this pre-mech boss weapon deals is crazy, with the splash projectiles being able hit the original target it excels both in boss killing and crowd control, cutting the damage of the burst in half should turn this from being able to last till after Duke Fishron to just a mech destroyer and a good option for Plantera.
Refer to this thread.

It's about on par with a T3 repeater using Ichor arrows against the Twins. That's not busted let alone deserving of such a big nerf.
Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 120 to 130
Greatly increase velocity of sparks

- The Butcher's Chainsaw suffers from the same situation as the Candy Corn Rifle, it's not bad, but there's a weapon that's just objectively better in the same event, the sparks effect is barely even noticeable, maybe increasing the range of the sparks will make them more impactful?
Give the sparks Local Immunity. That's a MUCH bigger buff than it sounds, trust me.
 

Dr. Flavin

Skeletron
Damage buff is greatly appreciated, not sure if it will help against the WoF though, the hitbox isn't big enough to keep hungries away.

Night's Edge is currently melee's best option against the Wall and has one of the fastest kill times against it, beaten only by Obsidian armor/Snaptap, Star Cannon, and unrealisitcally greedy Hellwing Bow/Demon Scythe strategies that make you stand on top of the wall to hit 3 eyes at once.

It doesn't need a DPS buff. If anything, make it a little bigger so less experienced players are less scared to use it on the wall.

Cutlass used to be better than Excalibur, and it's still noticeably better than all ore swords. Hell, this change makes it better than current excalibur.

And yes, im aware that all those swords are bad, but you can't just buff one sword and keep all others in the dark, and a fix to all of thm is almost a patch of its own.

No, it does not. Its DPS is actually better than the Tavernkeep T2 sentries, even with their set bonuses.

What this needs is more available sentry slots... but that's asking for new items altogether.

Refer to this thread.

It's about on par with a T3 repeater using Ichor arrows against the Twins. That's not busted let alone deserving of such a big nerf.

Give the sparks Local Immunity. That's a MUCH bigger buff than it sounds, trust me.
Yeah, I'm really just throwing numbers out there man, staring at walls of text for six hours does things to you.

I agree the Night's edge buff is a bit much but, I mean. It's Wall of Flesh, staying in specific close ranges without getting bonked by the hungry or the wall is really difficult on expert/master mode, and the contact damage is immense if you fail, while the damage is good, it's just so much riskier than other options like the Star Fury or a yoyo or the Sunfury that few will ever bother.

Yeah the Cutlass buffs were a bit much, didn't realize those stats were better than excal lol.

I thought Crystal serpent was way better than that wow.

Please elaborate on Queen Spider staff, Because the last time I used the thing it sucked so much. Maybe I just didn't notice how good it was?


Also wow that's really cool what you guys are doing, I've always wanted to get into making mods but never really knew how.
 

MrD108

Official Terrarian
Soaring Insignia
Suggested Change(s):
Decrease ascent speed bonus from 48% to 10%
Remove acceleration bonus

- Infinite flight time is already amazing, the fact it gives the Frog Leg bonus and an acceleration bonus makes this accessory borderline mandatory. There is no reason not to have this if you use wings.
This is an expert pre-Moon Lord accessory, it really doesn't require any nerf.

Plus, it's useless on its own, it has to be used with wings, which takes up two accessory slots, that's a fair balance.
 

Dr. Flavin

Skeletron
This is an expert pre-Moon Lord accessory, it really doesn't require any nerf.

Plus, it's useless on its own, it has to be used with wings, which takes up two accessory slots, that's a fair balance.
Is it though? I mean, it being useless(it's not actually useless technically it's still a copy of frog legs with a move speed bonus on top of that) without wings doesn't really matter because when are you not going to have wings if you're using this accessory? mobility is paramount in Terraria and an accessory that grants infinite potential vertical mobility is incredible on it's own without the speed boosts it gives. The other alternatives for infinite flight sacrifice player size, and(sometimes) mobility. Tell me this, is there any scenario where this accessory wouldn't be used if you are using wings? Because I have no idea.
 

violet & beige

Terrarian
Hey guys, I don't really think we should consider too much about nerfing, because it makes us gradually feel like everything should be nerfed a little bit but that's not alright.
Note that nerfing is a frustrating thing, It's bound to hurt player's feelings. Nothing wrong with being powerful and nothing needs a certain nerf unless it's truly OP.
** Just a friendly reminder **
 
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