Sprites The Infestation (Alternate Corruption)

I just tested it, and it is confirmed that you don't need to use a hardmode character to choose the evil.
Nice. So it's a feature unlocked by getting to hardmode to begin with and you don't have to do it over and over again to benefit from the option.

Anyways.

Selecting the Evil allows for multiple evils to theoretically be possible. It is for sure no where near the list of priorities the devs have -- afterall, the Hallow doesn't even have an alt yet. So I doubt the Infestation will ever see implementation.
 
Sorry, but I see no reason to add another alternate to corruption. (Am I missing the point or something?)
Well then I'm glad you're not the one making the final decision.

These suggestions are mostly for fun anyway. You know, like all suggestions. What do you think about the biome itself?
 
Sorry, but I see no reason to add another alternate to corruption. (Am I missing the point or something?)
Don't worry, it goes over everyone's heads a lot. I went with this really radical reasoning that Suggestions just don't see much of these days.

It's called "For Fun". One day I'll conform to what everyone else is doing and make suggestions that service the point of Terraria.

:dryadnaughty:
 
Wow, this suggestion is amazing. One problem might be the accessory though, the heart burster would be totally broken without some kind of limitation to how much health/mana can be dropped from it (similar to the heart/star statue limitation), and the flatworm should be able to do at least something useful? Maybe instead of healing drinking a health potion would clear a random negative effect, and would remove one before applying potion sickness (with the exception of negative effects from the moon lord and wall of flesh), for a unique mean of recovery that isn't pointless (as a reference to how leeches were used to cure disease)
 
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Wow, this suggestion is amazing. One problem might be the accessory though, the heart burster would be totally broken without some kind of limitation to how much health/mana can be dropped from it (similar to the heart/star statue limitation), and the flatworm should be able to do at least something useful? Maybe instead of healing drinking a health potion would clear a random negative effect, and would remove one before applying potion sickness (with the exception of negative effects from the moon lord and wall of flesh), for a unique mean of recovery that isn't pointless (as a reference to how leeches were used to cure disease)
I didn't issue a limitation because it didn't seem important. As the thread disclaimer states -- balance is a non-issue since it would ultimately be up to the devs. But there would of course be some sort of limitation. It's not a free heal-all. But I have no intention of changing the Flatworm evolution. It is specifically designed as a negative accessory that you build up to something greater. And I like the idea of how negative accessories would incite players to attempt different things; like a Flatworm / Expert Mode / Hardcore run.
 
Balance is always an issue for new features, ideas require a reason to be implemented, otherwise that feature will not be used.
I was just suggesting a trade-off, instead of healing every minute you cure an ailment instead? Accessories will never be totally negative, people aren't going to wear it for a challenge, they'll wear it for whatever modifier is on it and just take it off whenever they need to heal. A self limitation of not healing is already done easier by not carrying potions and trashing them if any are obtained, or keeping them off your hot-bar and erasing the hotkey for drinking them. Sorry but the motive behind that idea makes it pretty weak, it needs some improvement, I wont support someone who doesn't back up their reasoning with a solid ideal
Again. Balance, as stated in the disclaimer is moot. Every single presented thing has made-up balance for concept, not practicality or actuality. It's ultimately up to the devs if the ideas were to ever be implemented in the first place. It's a non-issue; none of the numbers in this thread mean anything at all.

The Heart Burster also does NOT heal every minute. Also -- the Flatworm and it's accessories affect ALL healing effects. Not just those attained from potion use. People DO change their play styles for challenges. You can find dozens of examples right here on the boards and in streams. Everything from "No Armor", "Ranged Only", and "No Crafting" playthroughs. Another, unique accessory that increases difficulty in a specific way is great for these players and even for custom maps that are built with specific rules in mind. So the motivation for the Flatworm and it's evolution are by no means weak, as it specifically pertains to our community and some of the habits formed after conquering some of the game's more obvious challenges, like Hardcore and Expert Mode runs. It may be a niche item, but it's ties to our community are solid.

I hope that clarifies my reasoning with "solid ideal". But if you still don't like it I can give you a simpler answer...

There will not be a compromise. I will not change the Flatworm or it's evolution. It fulfills the purpose I created it for. Not to sound cold or rude; but if you don't like it -- I don't really care. My suggestions are for fun and likely never to be added anyways; so while I sincerely appreciate any and all support for my suggestions -- your specific lack of support does not bother me in the slightest. I'm disappointed that a single accessory turns you off to the idea of supporting The Infestation as a whole, but I came to terms with the notion that "you can't please everyone" a very long time ago.
 
Accessories, armor, and weapon synergy are my favorite part of this game, that's what I look for first in every version update and suggestion. When I said "healing every minute" I meant healing by use of health potions, the Heart Burster still needs some clarification though. When I said people aren't going to wear it for a challenge, I didn't mean everyone, but most people, sorry I wasn't clear about all of that.
Right as a new world is started there are five empty slots to fill, any modifier of +1 to +4 defense/damage/speed that doesn't allow healing is still better than nothing, most people will wear it just for the modifier and take it off to use potions. Without the modifier its just another material to put away for another day, such as the ankh components. I think I get how it could be a fun gimmick though, you start out with it and can't heal, then try to get the other accessories to evolve it and eventually can start healing more and more? That sounds fun and all for "dozens" of streamers or youtubers, but believe it or not this game has sold twelve million times copies, if you want your idea considered it needs the support of the majority.
Honestly, you might as well change the disclaimer to "Don't bother looking at the details because they aren't getting added anyways"... It would have saved us both some time and thought
Firstly. It's impossible to appeal to the majority. Regardless of the amount of support here. Take the most supported suggestion on the forums (not sure which that would even be) and regardless of support -- it does not represent the majority. Only a minority of players visit the forum. Of that, not everyone actually posts. And of that, another minority actually bother with suggestions. The devs have the final say. So long as you have moderate support from the minority existing here and dev attention -- your suggestion has a fair basis for consideration so long as it is within reason, fits the ideals of Terraria, and doesn't seek to offend or promote exploits. This is why things like Slime Banners, Lamia Vanity, QoL changes, and other misc suggestions still get added to the game despite having proportionately little or no majority support whatsoever. But still; devs have the ultimate say in what goes into their game or not. Take my suggestion, The River, for example. The River, along with other biome suggestions from @Tobbvald and @Snickerbobble have some of the most support I've ever seen for alternates (or suggestions in general) -- and it's still a very slim chance that any will be added to the base game. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if The Infestation has a billion people supporting it or 1, so long as it's not completely shunned by the community/devs -- it stands as good a chance of anything else of being added (which admittedly is still slim to none).

Secondly; just going off of the responses to my alternates in general across all of the threads -- I don't need to appeal at all to the vast majority base of 12m players at all. I have the support I want/expected for my alternates. And it's good enough to keep my suggestions "in the running" so to speak. I am completely unconcerned with their appeal to the "majority". I'm good, brah.

Thirdly. If @Ami 's "Rate that Weapon" threads have taught me anything; it's that a vast amount of content that already exists in the game goes ignored and unused by a lot of players. Just because some, or even most, players won't use an item is no reason not to have that item in the game. And a lot of those items don't even have ties or purpose directly related to appealing to the community. It has a fair basis for the argument of that item's exclusion, but it's not a reason to dismiss it outright. Just like having an alternate Corruption (The Crimson) is not a valid reason to instantly dismiss other alternates or even another alternate Corruption. Good argument basis, invalid dismissal basis.

Lastly; the disclaimer doesn't require any changes (except for maybe explaining that I'm not considering making my alts mods just yet). The numbers, while not important and not meaningful are there -- as stated before -- for concept sake, not actuality or practicality. You can take a weapon and look at it's imaginary stats and use it as a comparison to an existing weapon to better understand where it fits in the game and how it might actually work. You're not supposed to take it at face value. It's a suggestion -- you're only supposed to get a clear idea of what the suggestion is about. And concept balance helps better envision the overall suggestion. So while the suggestions are not likely to be added, the imaginary balance is still important for concept purposes.

For example: The Queen's Tail
5ecV4ZJ.png

It has stats and a description. You are not supposed to take any of it's stats at face value. What you are supposed to take away though is this: It's a "very fast", "strong", biome weapon, with homing projectile effects every "few" hits.

============================================

I'm sorry you don't agree. You are not the first person to disagree with aspects of The Infestation. And you certainly won't be the last. I have provided my reasoning though and have told you I won't be changing the Flatworm or it's evolution. You can either accept that, or you can't. If you can, great -- if you can't, then we have nothing more to talk about and your presence and purpose in this thread has reached it's end. I'm sorry this hinders your support for The Infestation as a whole, but I won't hold it against you or take offense. I think I will be just fine with the support I already have. Whether The Infestation is added or not.

Thanks for sharing your criticisms and concerns. I will keep them in mind for future alternates.
 
Well, the forums are here for a reason you know, it probably costs something to host them, why would anyone spend money on something if they weren't going to use it? I don't get why your stating the obvious about the developers, of course the final say is reserved to them.
I seriously doubt 12 million people would play the same game, that was just the number of copies sold, the point was a large amount of people play this game. The general consensus is that an item that negates healing will not be used as intended. Almost every RPG is going to have dead content (to be honest Terraria doesn't really, the content is just really spread out), just because some old content is unused doesn't mean new content should be under any circumstance, if anything that's an example of what not to add.
If the details of items don't have to be specified, but examples of how they compare to items currently in the game might help, if that's a problem. It would probably take a while, but offering a texture pack would make it far more understandable too.
The infestation sounds totally fine, I wouldn't have any problem with it as a biome in Terraria just as you've described it, it's just the little things that hinder it corresponding to the corruption or crimson, such as the lack of mimic drops.
I understand the forums exist for a reason. Obviously people use them. But the entire Terraria playerbase does not. Even if you assume only 3 million people own Terraria, the forums does not house that many members or activity at all. And of the active members, again, only a minority participate in Suggestions.

You misunderstand the point of the Flatworm.

I don't expect the Flatworm to be used by anyone except in those niche situations outlined above. That's the intent. It's purpose. That you're ignoring. Regular players would find use for the Heart Burster in multiplayer (Tanks). But otherwise, don't need to use the item and would likely not use it. Which is OK.

I don't expect the average player to use the item as intended, because the item itself is not intended for the average player. Get it now? It doesn't matter if John Doe chooses not to use the Flatworm. Just like it doesn't matter if John Doe chose not to use the Magic Quiver. But if Jane Doe wants to run a ranged play through, the Magic Quiver starts to look a lot more appealing. And those niche players and niche situations are precisely what the Flatworm and it's subsequent evolutions cater to.

The Infestation as a whole is not "hindered" because you do not understand, recognize, or agree with this concept. The niche players who enjoy challenges and custom maps with distinct rules do understand it -- and it's for them.

It simply doesn't cater to your interests. And upon consideration of my reasoning and your reasoning -- as the creator of the suggestion -- I have concluded that the Flatworm does not have to cater to your specific interests, and will thus remain unchanged.

Sorry.

Edit: Also, the mimic drops ARE in the suggestion. They even have their own shortcut link to them.
 
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Does it matter if players use the forums? It doesn't change the game unless the developers use the forums, that was my point.
No. It doesn't matter. And it's pretty irrelevant. You brought up needing to appeal to the majority (12 million copies sold). I showed you why that is not true (even if we assumed the Terraria player base is only 1/4th that).

Well, at least you understand its an unusable accessory for most people, the one unique feature being that it stops healing by means of hearts. If it stopped regeneration altogether that would make it a death sentence, if not its still possible to work around.
Regeneration is healing. For clarification; the Flatworm and all of it's evolutions affect anything that has a positive impact on restoration/healing effects. This includes every kind of regeneration and potion use.

Also, if you're even using the Flatworm -- you would be using it for it's niche purpose. "Work arounds" wouldn't be part of the scenario in that case.

So this is going to be the new panic necklace then, a biome specific drop that hinders the progress of the player from the start of the game. Just compare the brain of confusion to the worm scarf, or the sweetheart necklace to mana cuffs, which items seem more enjoyable? Thanks for suggesting another one of those accessories, the kind that hasn't been changed since their introduction and just make it harder to play on half of the worlds. At least the world evil can be chosen now.
Nothing forces you to use this item. Nothing forces you to use any of the items you've mentioned. Thus none of these things hinders anyone's progress through the game. Making things difficult is the point of the first few evolutions of the item -- which you don't have to use at all.

There is nothing in this suggestion that states that the system will require players to use any and all items presented with The Infestation. RNG may even determine that you don't even get a Flatworm. If you do get a Flatworm, you could leave it in a chest and never use it -- or even sell it.

Also tanks don't need healing in most scenarios
It was a single example. But most any-player doesn't actually need healing in near-all scenarios. There are a couple of hundred ways to play the game (or more), and a lot of the safer/creative ways to play have the player see little to no damage -- even in Expert Mode.

Also the magic quiver has always been awesome, and its a pain to get usually, the velocity is a must have for the slow projectiles fired from bows. You can't compare the best-in-slot bow accessory to something that has an intended use of making it harder for the player to survive.
Actually I can compare it -- because the magic quiver has a specific purpose -- which is to service players that have committed to bows. There is nothing in the game that forces me to use a bow at all. In fact, in most of my play throughs, I -- for example -- never use bows. I find chakrams and yo-yos to do just fine for my ranged needs. Magic Quiver is easily one of my most skipped items. And I'm not alone in doing this and Magic Quiver isn't the only item that gets skipped. If you don't use bows, why should you need the Magic Quiver at all? And if even a minority of players don't see the purpose of the Magic Quiver -- is that cause for it's removal or change? The answer is NO. Because the Magic Quiver has a purpose -- and it's purpose is to service those that utilize bows.

Just like the Flatworm services those who want new heights to difficulty.

I'm not comparing their utility in regards to survival. I'm comparing their niche purposes that cater to specific play-styles.

I never asked you to change it, I just suggested it would be better if it actually had a game changing mechanic, but no, it can be substituted easier just by not using potions. The fact it doesn't let you pick up hearts is also near pointless because the only time a heart will drop is when a player needs to be healed. Its a conflicting mechanic that doesn't support how Terraria has been developed to interact with the player.
Again. No, it can't be substituted easier by not using potions. Because the Flatworm doesn't just affect potions. It also doesn't stop you from picking up hearts. Flatworm specifically will just stop those hearts from having any affect.

Whether suggesting or asking; the answer is no.

No need to apologize, if that's all you want fine, but understand it is not going to be as well received as something that is useful to everyone.
It doesn't have to be useful to everyone. That's not a stipulation required for suggestions. As you can see here: http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/player-suggestions-rules-guidelines.294/

You might also want to take note of this:
Loki said:
Members Don't Decide What is Unnecessary

Ultimately, only the developers decide which suggestions are or aren't necessary to the game and it is not the place of any member to tell a suggestion author that their suggestion is pointless or "unnecessary".

==============================

At this point; I'm done discussing this. I'm not going to change the Flatworm. And I don't need to change your mind about it. I've provided solid reasoning as to why. So unless you have something else to discuss about The Infestation I'd really appreciate if you could stop replying to my thread (including this post). Thanks.
 
Uh, your still not getting some of my points, but I probably did the same likewise. Either way these replies are getting to long, but hopefully the general idea got across that the flatworm does not support the current game mechanics. Players who get the corruption already have a solid advantage over those who get the crimson, it would be awful to see the same happen to the next biome, if any are in development. I never called it unnecessary, but it doesn't serve any positive purpose, still unlike something such as a cosmetic that has no use it negatively affects the player instead. I never said it had to be useful, but that its better if everyone can potentially enjoy something than only a few. There is only one pre-hardmode evil biome specific accessory item, and what would be the worst item in the game should not be the kind of item to claim that spot.
Luckily then -- it's not up to you.
 
I don't understand the purpose of the flat worm or its evolutions, unless they only serve to create the heartburster. would you care to enlighten me?
 
I don't understand the purpose of the flat worm or its evolutions, unless they only serve to create the heartburster. would you care to enlighten me?
All the information about them has been discussed at length in the thread now.

The tldr is; Flatworm's purpose is to service players who want a difficult niche experience. While Heart Burster would appeal as a fun healing accessory to anyone.
 
Wow... I didn't expect this from something like this. I mean, it's an item. A thing you either use or don't use. No point in making a scene about it. If you don't like it, say so, instead of starting a page long argument that in the end does nothing but take up forum space. Wish I had of found these sooner now. Not that I didn't before.

Also, Disclaimers exist for a reason. Read them before complaining.
 
Wow... I didn't expect this from something like this. I mean, it's an item. A thing you either use or don't use. No point in making a scene about it. If you don't like it, say so, instead of starting a page long argument that in the end does nothing but take up forum space. Wish I had of found these sooner now. Not that I didn't before.

Also, Disclaimers exist for a reason. Read them before complaining.

The two members had a difference of opinion and they discussed it in a civil manner, which is the purpose of this forum, and I can assure you that the forum is in no danger of running out of space. However, the issue was closed and bringing it up again to admonish one of the members was certainly not called for. In the future, if you think a member's behavior was out of line, then report it and move on and refrain from lecturing them on how their posts waste space, such behavior is itself unneeded and unwanted on this forum.

If you have any questions or comments, you are welcome to send them to me via a Private Message.
 
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