assassinduke
Terrarian
I still think that "expert mode" should be renamed "Only yrimir can beat this thing"
Official 1.3 Launch Feedback Thread
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Demon Master
Eye of Cthulhu
This may have happened to me in 1.2.4, but sometimes the map goes black, and I have to come off my world and go back in to fix it.
I couldn't agree more to this. ^
Also, the video brought up some good points about if there's "no skill involved" and you can't work your way around a problem -- There's one way to do it and one way only. I felt this way about PixelJunk's "Shooter II" -- I played through all of the levels, and all of them had a workable solution. I beat the boss, opened the hole in the planet, and was ready to escape!
Then, Road To Dawn happened.
There was
ONE
FINAL
LEVEL.
and it broke every single rule of gaming mentioned in that video.
It broke the rules. Every level had been a cave-exploration type. This last one was a SIDESCROLLER with a MOVING SCREEN! Like, what?? Excuse me?
There were also completely new-level-difficulty enemies - These things could kill you with 2 hits, rather than 4 or 5. And since it was a MOVING level, you couldn't move back or try to shoot them quick enough once they got to you. It was all over from there.
It was basically something completely, entirely different, breaking all the rules and going against everything the gamer had learned, throughout the game. I get the "you have to collect all treasure before you escape" thing. I could deal with that. But introducing a near-impossible challenge that
S UP everything you know about Shooter mechanics?! WE PLAYED YOUR GAME, LET US WIN!I'm serious when I say I chucked a Dualshock 4 across the room trying this level. It was awful, satanic, and I swore never to even try again. Because trying a level hundreds of times, with the SAME RESULTS, only to be killed EVERY DAMN TIME, having to start over, again and again, is NOT FUN. And it definitely does NOT make a good game.
I hope you're happy robbing players from their final, deserved victory, PixelJunk. I hope you're damn happy.
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Sky_Render
Terrarian
"Look at what one of the best players in the community can do" is not really a valid argument. You should never endeavor to "balance" a game so that only the top 0.01% of players can complete it.
General Milky
Terrarian
Why not? I'm progressing smoothly through it. So are two other of my friends.
Expert mode is extra, you know what you're signing up for when you select it. All you have to do is learn and adapt, use what suits each fight best, and change your mindset.
Not just anyone who has played Terraria before can beat Expert mode. It's not there to just stroke the ego of people who kinda know what they are doing, it was made for the hardcore subfans of which there are many. A good number of the beta team can beat it, too, so 0.01% is an exaggeration brought by salt, methinks.
dark_
Headless Horseman
Phantasm and holly arrows simply wrecks the boss, be it expert or normal. It also allows you to stay away from the dude and avoid the laser. Yes, leech effect is a bit annoying as it is - and I can't seem to "kill it off" but it's managable.
If you're simply bad at dodging and hitting, why not making an arena for the boss? I made one and it makes the boss super easy, be it expert or normal. Though it just isn't as fun like that, but it's good for farming.. as it's annoying to get killed after dealing with all of the pillars, and then getting the lord to despawn.
tl;dr;
If you're bad at dodging and killing the dude, make an arena and farm him like you would do with all of the other bosses. If you're up for a challenge, get on with your flying and dodging skills. Though - leech effect duration could be lowered a bit.
If you're simply bad at dodging and hitting, why not making an arena for the boss? I made one and it makes the boss super easy, be it expert or normal. Though it just isn't as fun like that, but it's good for farming.. as it's annoying to get killed after dealing with all of the pillars, and then getting the lord to despawn.
tl;dr;
If you're bad at dodging and killing the dude, make an arena and farm him like you would do with all of the other bosses. If you're up for a challenge, get on with your flying and dodging skills. Though - leech effect duration could be lowered a bit.
Sky_Render
Terrarian
Let me ask you something: how many of the 12 million or so people who have bought Terraria do you suppose have even gotten to Hardmode? How many of them do you think have managed to defeat any of the mechanical bosses? Plantera? Duke Fishron? If you think more than 120,000 of them, you're deluding yourself something awful. Expert Mode is already catering to the top 1% of Terraria players at best.
General Milky
Terrarian
Yeah, how many players beat Megaman? Any of them. What about Borderlands, think all the players who bought that finished it too? According to steam acheivements, not a huge number of players got past the first run of Binding of Isaac: Rebirth, and they need to complete hundreds for 100%.
Making a game to be accessable to absolutely everyone who ever plays it is fine. But it's not the holy grail of game design. Sometimes, challenge and resistance can make a game, and Terraria is one such game. It starts out easy, and gets gradually tougher and treats its players with respect. It's not supposed to be super casual. The standard Terraria experience isn't an easymode, it's Terraria being Terraria.
Expert is made for experts of normal Terraria. You know, the ones that can beat it without any struggle at all and want to be pushed again.
It makes those players happy. Expert is not supposed to make the casual player happy. It's to please the challenge runner and the cult of gaming that enjoys stuff like Dark Souls. Everyone else can make steady progress through normal mode.
I don't see what's the big deal about everyone complaining about a hardmode that turns out to be actually pretty hard, rather than just a slightly remixed mode.
Sky_Render
Terrarian
The problem is that it's a complete waste of resources to implement something like that. All it does is alienate the majority of even your most dedicated playerbase in order to cater to a literally impossible-to-satisfy demographic of extreme players. The CastleVania series suffered from this in its later years something awful, from the GBA onwards. The games kept being made to cater to the requests of the most dedicated fans, and kept selling worse and worse as the normal players were scared off by the absurd difficulty spike. They started adding "Hard Mode" to those games to cater to the most-devoted players, but the games did worse still despite that. Why? Because many players who thought they could handle the extra challenge discovered that it was too hard for them, and it soured the experience as a whole for them (both normal AND hard difficulty). Expert Mode is currently designed to appeal to the most absurdly dedicated Terraria players, and it has already done a lot of damage to the game's image for those not part of that group.
EXPERT MODE FEEDBACK
overall i like the new A.I.'s and such, however i think that some of the expert mode items just cant compete with other things, such as the brain of confusion and bone glove i just don't see a place for the brain in my equipment area even after having used the demon heart(best item imo). Though i haven't tried the hive pack so i can't comment on that however, the shiny stone i don't believe really has a place simply because you must be standing still for it to work which if you are in single player mode is completely useless against hard mode boss' especially on expert mode. the worm scarf is one of if not the most valuable accessory added though,
all that aside i'm finding plantera to be quite a challenge, even finding it. i have found just 1 bulb as of this moment after spending about 4 hours underground.
overall i like the new A.I.'s and such, however i think that some of the expert mode items just cant compete with other things, such as the brain of confusion and bone glove i just don't see a place for the brain in my equipment area even after having used the demon heart(best item imo). Though i haven't tried the hive pack so i can't comment on that however, the shiny stone i don't believe really has a place simply because you must be standing still for it to work which if you are in single player mode is completely useless against hard mode boss' especially on expert mode. the worm scarf is one of if not the most valuable accessory added though,
- "As the game progresses, enemies will start hitting well into the 300-400 damage range. The Worm Scarf thus becomes valuable in reducing damage and making blows tolerable."
all that aside i'm finding plantera to be quite a challenge, even finding it. i have found just 1 bulb as of this moment after spending about 4 hours underground.
General Milky
Terrarian
And they can just deal with it, as far as my opinion is concerned. The old Terraria is still right here. It's over there, being friendly and fun. As a matter of fact I'm playing normal mode with a friend right now, building stuff and having a good time. Nobody took anything from anybody.
Can do Expert? Don't play Expert. It's a choice you opt into, and if you're not an expert who has beaten the game front to back at LEAST once, the mode has no place for you. Calling Expert Mode, Expert Mode, but having it be relatively beatable by the more casual players makes its name a total lie, and you know it.
Terraria is doing EXTREMELY WELL. Your spiel about sales and demographic don't really hold water when mechs/duke/frost moon has been around a long while and the game still tops charts. There's absolutely no harm in making an actual hardmode to satisfy the wants of the players who want a more threatening experience, who want to put their immense knowledge of the game to use. There's no harm in making a mode that actually puts a purpose to all those potions and niche accessories. No harm, of course, except for the tears of those who don't understand what they are getting into, and want every mode and aspect of the game to be made for them.
Do note I don't use "casual" here as a demeaning term. I mean it more as in the players who want to just have fun and explore. Expert Mode demands a lot from the player, not only in execution, but in knowledge of their options and the game world at large. It's not for the player who doesn't know everything ahead of time (ie, the definition of an expert)
Can do Expert? Don't play Expert. It's a choice you opt into, and if you're not an expert who has beaten the game front to back at LEAST once, the mode has no place for you. Calling Expert Mode, Expert Mode, but having it be relatively beatable by the more casual players makes its name a total lie, and you know it.
Terraria is doing EXTREMELY WELL. Your spiel about sales and demographic don't really hold water when mechs/duke/frost moon has been around a long while and the game still tops charts. There's absolutely no harm in making an actual hardmode to satisfy the wants of the players who want a more threatening experience, who want to put their immense knowledge of the game to use. There's no harm in making a mode that actually puts a purpose to all those potions and niche accessories. No harm, of course, except for the tears of those who don't understand what they are getting into, and want every mode and aspect of the game to be made for them.
Do note I don't use "casual" here as a demeaning term. I mean it more as in the players who want to just have fun and explore. Expert Mode demands a lot from the player, not only in execution, but in knowledge of their options and the game world at large. It's not for the player who doesn't know everything ahead of time (ie, the definition of an expert)
Oh hi there. I think he meant Moon Lord being "simple" in expert mode, which means that he should be no issue for normal mode, not discussing expert mode in general.
I think we can all agree that keeping the moon lord away from the city and magic mirroring to the nurse over and over is just cheap and not really a good way of fighting it, same goes for the anti healing debuff, while it should be there to reduce leeching by a bit, it shouldn't completely cancel it. The moon lord's attacks should just be easier to avoid and maybe a do a bit less damage and we would have a completely nice boss here.
General Milky
Terrarian
That much I might be able to agree on. I say might, because I have absolutely no idea how the new leech debuff works. I am behind the times a bit.
rubeszilla
Terrarian
Yeah, who the asked for this bull Expert Mode anyway? Bloody General Milky, Yrimir, and Pedgiun. 3 people. Bloody bastards.
I'm doing OK thus far in pre-hardmode but dreading HM. I might be able to resort to pure cheese if I'm too soft. I may even go back to NM. Still, I'm glad it's there and can't understand any complaints about it being too hard - I was totally expecting such complaints though - take up the challenge or leave it, there's always NM for us.
asked for this bull Expert Mode anyway? Bloody General Milky, Yrimir, and Pedgiun. 3 people. Bloody bastards. I'm doing OK thus far in pre-hardmode but dreading HM. I might be able to resort to pure cheese if I'm too soft. I may even go back to NM. Still, I'm glad it's there and can't understand any complaints about it being too hard - I was totally expecting such complaints though - take up the challenge or leave it, there's always NM for us.
I've played it with a endgame 1.2 character, you played the moon lord in 1.3.0.2 with the health upgrade ? Because now, every time he uses the toungue to drag the player you get the debuff for 15 seconds, which makes you completely unable to heal from leeching, so the spectre hood and vampire knives have no effect. After around 15 or 16 seconds, the boss is done cycling through his attacks and will do that attack again, which means you can't heal unless you use asphalt to outrun the toungue.
If you have seen Yrimir's video you see how healing was needed to stay alive, but at the same time(which can be seen in chippy's video) it was possible to just do the boss without doing too much dodging.
The main issue is that it's attacks are just too spammy and hard to avoid, also dealing a lot of damage.
As far as expert mode for "casual" players goes, all the expert bosses can technically be done with a endgame character from normal mode, so you can get all of the exclusive drops and use them in expert too, exept for the 6th accessory slot, which is disabled in normal worlds. This is quite sad, as a extra accessory slot would be so useful for everyone, and this is a reward for doing the WOF on expert, so why should it be disabled if the other items aren't ? I'd like to see this available in normal worlds in a future update.
As for the other things in expert mode, I'm ok with the extra droprate, exept for the rare mobs, like the metal detector from the nymph, it really hurts that this is only a 50% drop on normal mode.
are those what cause the gravity to randomly invert? if so i consider them a minor nuisance at best. but other than that i rarely actually see what causes the gravity issue or the probes for that matter.
MegaMage314 🌳
Living Tree
I thought the Martian probes cause the Martian Madness event if they see you and escape.
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