• For issues you find with the Switch and Console releases, please follow this link and give as much detail as possible. This is the speediest way to get info to Pipeworks and get a hotfix in the works.
  • 1.4 will bring many changes to the PC version. We strongly advise making plans to back up your worlds and players prior to updating your game. More details here.
  • Begin your search for Journey's End information here and here. Please report bugs and issues for Journey's End here.
  • For issues you find with the Mobile 1.3 update, please follow this link and give as much detail as possible. This is the speediest way to get info to DR Studios to look at your issue. Also, some troubleshooting hints here.

Terraria State of the Game: November 2019

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Nsk1341

Terrarian
As you wish. I don't agree with your views, but I guess we don't see the complaints in the same light.


This is not a person we are talking about, this is a company. Companies are not people. You can not and should not think of them using similar ideas. You can not trust a company, and you shouldn't try. A company can't do do things the way a single person can. Problems arise from having a group project that can not be compared to the problems of an individual, and the expectations should not be the same.

I don't evaluate what a company is going to accomplish based on what they have done. I'm not an investor, which is the only time that one should be making such evaluations of a company. I wait for something to be done and then judge that outcome. From the way you present it I get the impression that many people have put trust in ReLogic to deliver on their word. That's just a bad way of thinking. People end up with hurt feelings about a situation they created for themselves.
I think you get his point though. They are breaking trust. People and companies can both break trust. This WILL impact them in the future. I think you're really splitting hairs for the sake of an argument.

As for your investment comment I think that's just plain silly. It is your choice for yourself to not judge them on what they've done. I feel that I can absolutely judge them at every step of the way if I so choose. I don't need to be an investor to judge them prior to a final product being released. I've purchased this game 4 times now. I think that makes me an investor.

Also, nobody is expecting or wanting them to rush out a sub par product. As Nicol Bolas stated, these things are not exclusive. They can deliver on both time frames and quality.
 

Nsk1341

Terrarian
No I'm really not just saying things to argue. I truly believe companies shouldn't be able to break your trust because people shouldn't be giving them any. I think having faith in a company is a bad thing. You never know when the people that created that faith will leave or get removed. Especially since it's rarely the leadership or owners of a company that actually do the work for your faith.


I don't think buying a company's products makes you an investor. I think you can judge if those purchases were work the money you paid for them. I think in your case it could be argued that mistakes were made and you didn't get what was expected. I think it's wrong that you can't get a refund, but I think that's more Nintendo's fault than anyone else. Still you can't predict a company's future actions based on their past actions. Companies don't have a personality that can be understood.


Being on time and being good quality are indeed separate conditions. History has generally shown that quality takes more time than people are willing to wait for these days. The devs said that they want more time to not release a broken product, and some people responded with basically don't care, entertain me now cause I'm tired of waiting. Yet I'm there one being told I'm unreasonable.
I disagree entirely on all points.

You trust a company every time you buy their product. When you buy a Coke you trust it's not poison.

There is no argument mistakes WERE made and I don't see why you would think they're Nintendo's and not the publishers. The publisher has a responsibility to ensure that game information on store pages and retailer websites is accurate. 5 months later and Amazon as well as Walmart STILL have information stating Splitscreen is available on switch.

Of course they are different things but they can happen at the same time. They can release quality content in a timely manner and communicate relevantly.
Other devs have done it.

My opinion is that 505, PW, and re-logic need to do better for their own sake.
 

Loki

Consigliere
Staff member
Re-Logic
Administrator
Delaying so much so frequently seems to me like it indicates a super chill and laid back work environment where they take their time instead of killing themselves with crunch time and actually live the impossible dream of making a living from games while simultaneously being able to enjoy life.
I want to underscore the second part of this. Crunch time is a plague on the industry. Actual people are behind the creation of games, not faceless automatons that bang out code mindlessly for hours on end.

Taking our time? Inasmuch as that means having high standards and not wanting to compromise or cut things we want to see in... yes. That does not mean we are just hanging out, derping around either. Tons of hard work goes in each and every day... and so it will up until and through launch. :)


As for the hypothetical discussions about Re-Logic vs other situations/companies/etc. Anyone telling you that game (or software in general) development is some neat and orderly process where all of the widgets perfectly fall in line is either picking an outlier or not being wholly truthful. Heck, I will go past that and say the same applies for ANY lengthy creative production process, even outside of software. The longer the plan, the more the moving pieces, etc. the more potential for "stuff" to occur. On top of that, we do not operate like a AAA, we never have. Re-Logic is a small company with a very large game - which makes for some very interesting and unique dynamics. We haven't jacked prices over time or resorted to DLC in order to fund the big (and often over-reaching) expansions that are so-often the case out there in the industry.

The downside of that is variability like what you are seeing here with the date moving back. The upside? We have been able to remain truly indie at heart and again not have to resort to the financial "fleece the players" disease that plagues the industry. We don't like pushing the date back either, but it is the right decision to do right by the fans - something we do not take lightly.

Some people will get that, others won't - and I do not make light of either opinion. All we can do is stick to our core philosophy and deliver an absolutely stunning 1.4/JE update in the new year. :)


Multiple posts
Again, very much know and understand the source of your frustration. All I can offer you is the information that I have, that the finishing of that feature remains a Priority-One level push from our end, etc.

I don't make the return policies for Nintendo - that whole thing is about 5 steps from being something Re-Logic can affect. So my focus instead is on getting you the feature that you crave so much - inasmuch as I can influence or accelerate that process. I'm not a coder, so that is all that I can personally offer you. I get that you feel that is not enough, but that is literally all that can be done.

As for the storefront stuff - it does seem that someone at 505 messed up at some point there. The instant that I have been made aware of such errors, I have immediately (as I always do) taken such to them for addressing. Sometimes those fixes take time or go through complications (I have no visibility into those machinations). Again, as above, I have done literally everything I can on that front. I do not have direct access to any of those systems (like I do for Steam) to just go "fix it myself".

Not making excuses, just sharing what gets done there.

I know that nothing short of "here is split screen" will suffice here - and so that is my core focus in regards to your situation. Anything else is just the going in circles that we have done in this thread.
 

Nsk1341

Terrarian
I want to underscore the second part of this. Crunch time is a plague on the industry. Actual people are behind the creation of games, not faceless automatons that bang out code mindlessly for hours on end.

Taking our time? Inasmuch as that means having high standards and not wanting to compromise or cut things we want to see in... yes. That does not mean we are just hanging out, derping around either. Tons of hard work goes in each and every day... and so it will up until and through launch. :)


As for the hypothetical discussions about Re-Logic vs other situations/companies/etc. Anyone telling you that game (or software in general) development is some neat and orderly process where all of the widgets perfectly fall in line is either picking an outlier or not being wholly truthful. Heck, I will go past that and say the same applies for ANY lengthy creative production process, even outside of software. The longer the plan, the more the moving pieces, etc. the more potential for "stuff" to occur. On top of that, we do not operate like a AAA, we never have. Re-Logic is a small company with a very large game - which makes for some very interesting and unique dynamics. We haven't jacked prices over time or resorted to DLC in order to fund the big (and often over-reaching) expansions that are so-often the case out there in the industry.

The downside of that is variability like what you are seeing here with the date moving back. The upside? We have been able to remain truly indie at heart and again not have to resort to the financial "fleece the players" disease that plagues the industry. We don't like pushing the date back either, but it is the right decision to do right by the fans - something we do not take lightly.

Some people will get that, others won't - and I do not make light of either opinion. All we can do is stick to our core philosophy and deliver an absolutely stunning 1.4/JE update in the new year. :)




Again, very much know and understand the source of your frustration. All I can offer you is the information that I have, that the finishing of that feature remains a Priority-One level push from our end, etc.

I don't make the return policies for Nintendo - that whole thing is about 5 steps from being something Re-Logic can affect. So my focus instead is on getting you the feature that you crave so much - inasmuch as I can influence or accelerate that process. I'm not a coder, so that is all that I can personally offer you. I get that you feel that is not enough, but that is literally all that can be done.

As for the storefront stuff - it does seem that someone at 505 messed up at some point there. The instant that I have been made aware of such errors, I have immediately (as I always do) taken such to them for addressing. Sometimes those fixes take time or go through complications (I have no visibility into those machinations). Again, as above, I have done literally everything I can on that front. I do not have direct access to any of those systems (like I do for Steam) to just go "fix it myself".

Not making excuses, just sharing what gets done there.

I know that nothing short of "here is split screen" will suffice here - and so that is my core focus in regards to your situation. Anything else is just the going in circles that we have done in this thread.
I'm past being happy with just getting split screen. I'm moving on and honestly don't want to play this game anymore even when split screen does come.

So many other games I've purchased on various eshops and never had this issue in regards to misinformation. I hope in the future PW/re-logic are able to work with a company other than 505.

Just my "salty" opinion.
 

Bloonjitsu Master

Official Terrarian
I truly believe companies shouldn't be able to break your trust because people shouldn't be giving them any.
Like Fritangaplays Said; Game Companies Are Not Your Friend. (I Crossed Out The Game Part Because That's What He Said, But You're Not Talking About Just Game Companies.)
Especially since it's rarely the leadership or owners of a company that actually do the work for your faith.
Yea, But They Ultimately Make The Decision To Do Right By The Consumers (Which In Gaming, Is Extremely :red:ing Rare)
I think it's wrong that you can't get a refund, but I think that's more Nintendo's fault than anyone else.
If It Was The Game Publishers That Controlled That, It'd Be An Absolute Nightmare For Consumers. I'm Personally Happy That They Can't Control That.
History has generally shown that quality takes more time than people are willing to wait for these days.
That Is Sad But True.
 

Altaire

Terrarian
Feature creep and scope expansion is an issue a lot of devs suffer with. Many creative types feel the need to keep changing, refining and adding things to make something just right. Unfortunately without the business types cracking the whip most don't know where to stop that process and just release something. As ReLogic are a self publishing indie outfit, they get to set their own pace really.
Okay, but like... If you're going to announce a release date, even as tentative as "by the end of 2019", you need to crack the whip yourself. You need to be at least somewhat mindful of the implications of whatever spur-of-the-moment changes you feel like adding to the workload. Again, this could easily be remedied by giving themselves more breathing room, or just, I don't know, saying "yeah this has been a really iterative process so we're actually not sure exactly when it'll be out, we're hoping for ______ but nothing is set in stone". Again, this is how you avoid having the public perception that Blizzard has, with "soon™".

I'm well aware this is a "thing" they do. Even as recently as a couple months ago, they were raving about some new boss they'd just decided to start working on, out of nowhere, which immediately had me wondering if they were biting off more than they can chew. As nice as it is to get more content, we've seen how that plays out, considering this update is being packaged with a lot of stuff that was coming out soon™ about two years ago.

Maybe they did that already. Maybe they thought they were overestimating, and still didn't get there in time. Only the devs can really answer that.
...Then, uh, they didn't do enough of it? That's kind of my point. They clearly need to give themselves more of a buffer when it comes to announcing definitive release deadlines, because this just keeps happening. If this was the first time they've ever delayed an update, I'd shrug it off. It happens, no one's perfect. When it happens with, you know, just about every update they announce, that's not a mistake. It's a pattern.

Regardless of all that, the update is delayed. It'll get here when it gets here. No matter what was promised to us, we aren't really owed anything. This was being told that we were getting a gift. Then being told that there's been an issue and we have to wait a little longer to get it. People then get upset, implying that's not good enough and the devs should have tried harder or just not told us anything at all. It's a bit of an unreasonable attitude to have really.
I feel like it's a more unreasonable attitude to insist that it's unreasonable to expect any kind of accountability from a developer, especially when it's as mild as "release things by their announced release date, or at least stop declaring definitive release dates if you're just not sure".

People need to get of their high horses and stop complaining that the huge & free update of a 5€ game isn't arriving exactly when they wanted it.
If they wanted to start treating major content updates like expansions and charging a reasonable price for them, I'd be completely fine with that. If anything, I'd rather they do that and actually release on time, instead of the standard we've had over the past few years. Charging $15 or $20 for an update on this scale is perfectly reasonable, especially if it's just once every year/two years/whatever, and I'd rather do that if it meant actually having a consistent release schedule. Hopefully, they'll move to something like that when the Terraria sequel/followup comes out in 2035.
 

cookiesystem

Skeletron Prime
If they wanted to start treating major content updates like expansions and charging a reasonable price for them, I'd be completely fine with that. If anything, I'd rather they do that and actually release on time, instead of the standard we've had over the past few years. Charging $15 or $20 for an update on this scale is perfectly reasonable, especially if it's just once every year/two years/whatever, and I'd rather do that if it meant actually having a consistent release schedule.
would you really tho? i'd just rather keep my saint-like patience and just wait 'til i get it for free, its atleast worth the hype.
also, just out of curiosity's sake, how many update delays (except little ones or Otherworld (since RIP 😔)) have been there :eek:?
 

Derpling Ω

Plantera
would you really tho? i'd just rather keep my saint-like patience and just wait 'til i get it for free, its atleast worth the hype.
also, just out of curiosity's sake, how many update delays (except little ones or Otherworld (since RIP 😔)) have been there :eek:?
Iirc this is the first time they actually gave a release window and delayed it for PC. I don't know about console but there have been many more there.
 

cookiesystem

Skeletron Prime
if that's the case, it's more of a console problem rather than a pc one, but the update as of right now is focused on pc-only, correct me if im wrong, and i thought we were talking about the delays of the big updates (1.1, 1.2, 1.3 & 1.4) for pc terraria, that in some peoples eyes made re-logic seem unreliable. can't comment for the console peeps...
 

Derpling Ω

Plantera
if that's the case, it's more of a console problem rather than a pc one, but the update as of right now is focused on pc-only, correct me if im wrong, and i thought we were talking about the delays of the big updates (1.1, 1.2, 1.3 & 1.4) for pc terraria, that in some peoples eyes made re-logic seem unreliable. can't comment for the console peeps...
I don't remember any of those being delayed (except 1.4, of course.) but my memory just might not reach back that far.
 

Bloonjitsu Master

Official Terrarian
Iirc this is the first time they actually gave a release window and delayed it for PC. I don't know about console but there have been many more there.
Yea, Console 1.3 Was Delayed A Few Times.
If they wanted to start treating major content updates like expansions and charging a reasonable price for them, I'd be completely fine with that. If anything, I'd rather they do that and actually release on time, instead of the standard we've had over the past few years. Charging $15 or $20 for an update on this scale is perfectly reasonable, especially if it's just once every year/two years/whatever, and I'd rather do that if it meant actually having a consistent release schedule. Hopefully, they'll move to something like that when the Terraria sequel/followup comes out in 2035.
Ea. Bethesda. Blizzard. Am I Missing Any? Remember The Days Where When A Game Launched, You Got All The Content In One Purchase? I Can't Anymore.

OH WAIT THIS ONE. If This Was A Game Where You Had To Pay DOUBLE The Price Of The Game For An Expansion This Would Rapidly Become One Of My Most Hated Games. Not Even Kidding Or Exaggerating That Point.

Essentially, You Just Said That You Want Relogic To Start Whaling People Instead Of Delaying Releases.
 
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Nsk1341

Terrarian
Yea, Console 1.3 Was Delayed A Few Times.

Ea. Bethesda. Blizzard. Am I Missing Any? Remember The Days Where When A Game Launched, You Got All The Content In One Purchase? I Can't Anymore.

OH WAIT THIS ONE. If This Was A Game Where You Had To Pay DOUBLE The Price Of The Game For An Expansion This Would Rapidly Become One Of My Most Hated Games. Not Even Kidding Or Exaggerating That Point.

Essentially, You Just Said That You Want Relogic To Start Whaling People Instead Of Delaying Releases.
Oh believe me they are whaling people. Got my $30 for an overpriced port that lacks a core feature listed on retail sites and promotional materials.
 

Bloonjitsu Master

Official Terrarian
Oh believe me they are whaling people. Got my $30 for an overpriced port that lacks a core feature listed on retail sites and promotional materials.
It's Like That On PS4, And I Can Only Assume XBOX Too. Considering All Three Force You To Pay For A Subscription To Play Online, Something Tells Me Relogic Or 505 Isn't At Fault Here.

Also, Yes I Hate The Fact That You Have To Pay To Play Online.
 

Aetelas

Terrarian
Wow, you folks are really.. 110% disappointing. Every time I leave for months on end (to spare myself the pain of watching the super-slow motion train wreck of disappointing news in realtime) and come back hoping something has changed, I find that it only ever does for the worst. It's truly disappointing for Terraria's future to putter out so pathetically into a drawn-out death rattle. No Otherworld, not even a 2019 1.4.0 release. I'm kinda glad you won't be doing anything else with Terraria, because I'd hate to ever get my hopes up with you folks again.

I guess I'll take another look sometime in April of 2020, so I can come back to the disappointment of finding you've cancelled 1.4.0 too. #Re-LogicRattle #110disappointments
 
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