tModLoader Rockos ARPG
- Thread starter Rockos
- Start date
Not done yet.
For the regen, Yes I think this is a bit OP and I need to work on this. But I don't want to use hard numbers like 2 hp/mp per sec... I feel like restraining the player by doing so.
RiverMouse
Steampunker
Just so you know, it's possible to go to and above 100% dodge chance.
ShuVi
Steampunker
when you rework the skilltree, you can use flat values on the way while using percentages for special skill spots (especially for warrior/defensive parts).
heres my old suggestion post for reference again
Will reinvestigate the matter. Thanks ShuVi. By the way the mod is multiplayer playable.
Oh and there are 2 bugs that basically ruined my save
If you made a world before and used a crystal life for example your life is 400
and download this mod and connect to this world your life will decrease to 109
also the mana will decrease to 0
and you cant use a crystal life anymore
[doublepost=1468806153,1468806113][/doublepost]OMG I JUST HAD 500 HP AND 200 MANA AND NOW IT'S 109 HP AND 0 MANA
NICE !!!!
[doublepost=1468806569][/doublepost]Now my hp and mana is back because i disabled the mod but it's bugged .... No bars at all
[doublepost=1468806943][/doublepost]Well i don't blame you or anything because you're the only one working on this mod
but i'm just telling you about these bugs
If you made a world before and used a crystal life for example your life is 400
and download this mod and connect to this world your life will decrease to 109
also the mana will decrease to 0
and you cant use a crystal life anymore
[doublepost=1468806153,1468806113][/doublepost]OMG I JUST HAD 500 HP AND 200 MANA AND NOW IT'S 109 HP AND 0 MANA
NICE !!!!
[doublepost=1468806569][/doublepost]Now my hp and mana is back because i disabled the mod but it's bugged .... No bars at all
[doublepost=1468806943][/doublepost]Well i don't blame you or anything because you're the only one working on this mod
but i'm just telling you about these bugs
My mod replace texture for heart and stars. So if you disable the mod you need to restart the game to see the heart and mana back. Also my mod has it's custom level system. You will have no mana and 100 at start don't worry. The skill tree is used to get more hp and mana and you get some at each level. you can get over 10k hp through leveling easy.
Hey, i have a huge problem. I installed the mod, played with it, and i didnt liked it, so i disabled it and reloaded the mods, so everything will be back to the classic terraria health and mana, and it got back how it had to, but it doesnt show any hearts orr mana stars, even though im fully max at those. PLS help me
ShuVi
Steampunker
are you kidding me? the post right above yours already is an answer for your issue
Numbers of teammate bar you want to show on the screen. I you want only 2 members then put 2. If you want 16 members then put 16. It's a way to not clutter your screen. Only useful in multiplayer.
CrimsnMonkey
Skeletron Prime
You may want to balance out this mod a lot! Infinite potion use, OP. Maybe have them scale based on your max hp, instead of being able to use them non-stop. You could also make mobs scale based on your level, so you don't absolutely demolish bosses. I am post-skeletron, have like 600 hp, like 140% ranged damage and ridiculous life regen. Have life regen based on per 5 seconds, instead of per second. That way it will balance it out A LOT.
Overall. It's a good mod, just too OP at the moment.
Overall. It's a good mod, just too OP at the moment.
ShuVi
Steampunker
the issue with regen in itself atm is the fact that they are percentages... even with 5 per sec, it will result in overpowered health regen at the end.
140% ranged damage is 40% increased... unless you wanted to say +140% (which would mean 240%). the potions are fine as is, they heal based on vanilla values and heal their amount over time (which doesnt stack btw, so spamming 20 potions a sec wouldn't help you at all)
check my suggetion post which i have quoted earlier, and look if you would be fine with a change like that.
having multiple people suggest different systems or changes on one feature, would be confusing. having lots of people work on one idea as a base works out better though
CrimsnMonkey
Skeletron Prime
I do mean just 140% ranged damage. But post skeletron, having that as well as 600 hp is a bit broken. Even on expert mode he couldn't do anything to me.
The potions aren't fine. Early game, they are completely broken. Oh I have taken some damage, better heal it back up instantly without a negative. 5 seconds later, oh better use another potion because I've taken more damage, and late game, would become almost useless due to their insignificant healing values., making you have to use like 5 in order for it to make a difference.
The regen being percentages isn't a problem, as it makes it scaling based on what level of the game you are at. If it was flat values, then that would be very hard to balance. Look at League of Legends for example. Items that gave health regeneration were changed a while ago to be percentages instead of flat values. Flat values will always be broken, as it creates spikes of power early, but not late, but percentages create a balance throughout.
But, the problem, like I said, is the time in which the health is regenerated. 1% per second. Let's say you have 1000hp. That's 10 per second, resulting in it taking 100 seconds to heal to max health from 0. Change that to per 5 seconds, that's 2 per second, resulting in it taking 500 seconds to heal to max health from 0. Change that to per 10 seconds, that's 1 per second, resulting in it taking 1000 seconds to heal to max from 0. You get more hp, you get more health regen, and these times to regen to full health from 0 would be the same, no matter what your hp. 100000hp, (Per second) 1000 hp per second, 100 seconds. (Per 5s) 200hp per second, 500 seconds. (Per 10s) 100hp per second, 1000 seconds. See, it's constant.
Now let's take it as flat values. An upgrade gives you let's say 10hp per second. That's HUGE early game, let's say when you have 500hp. That would take you 50 seconds (0.83 minutes) to heal to max health from 0. Now let's say your hp has gone up a bit, and you now have 1000hp, that would now take you 100 seconds (1.67 minutes) to heal to max from 0. 10000hp? 1000 seconds (16.67 minutes) to heal to max from 0. Now is that balanced? No. It's broken early, ridiculously useless late.
Instead, you should offer less health regen overall in the skill tree, in order to balance it out. Change them to 0.1% instead of 1% or 0.4%, that way anything but a melee won't be able to tank as easily as they can.
ShuVi
Steampunker
an issue you aren't adressing is the fact that you count it all in an environment based on vanilla values. monsters deal vanilla damage and have vanilla defense and hp values. ofc flat values will be stronger early on and lose significance in later game progress. but you were complaining about the uselessness of potions... why do you want to regen x% of life per second if you can use potions to speed up your health regen at times?
Also i didnt say that he has to go for such huge flat values.. did i?
he can go for float values like 0.2 hp/s regen, and can use percentages at certain spots... the skill tree can have any size, and to have some stuff added for any "class" the tree would require a certain size to be balanced throughout the whole game, while also offering space for everything (considering we dont use composites). using percentages in regeneration would boost it in later progress, which >>>COULD<<<(this does by no means mean that it will happen with certainty. its just a possibility depending on play style, similar to the 100%+ dodge issue atm) result in way higher regeneration, which surpasses any damage source.
Regeneration should never replace any in combat healing method. NEVER. if this happens, people will lose any kind of challenge in the game.
there should be a boost to monsters in-built. like some kind of world level which gets increased with monster kills or boss kills... either way would be fine.
im too busy and inexperienced to add something like that in my mod, and people might hate me for bad late game balancing.(they already do because my monsters are too strong
)
CrimsnMonkey
Skeletron Prime
Look at how Nakano does progressing in NTerraria. That mod when I last played it was completely balanced (v5 was when I last played it), you didn't out-scale monsters unless you really tried to, and monsters didn't out-scale you. The way that he executed potions was perfect. It kept them useful because he didn't change the basic functionality of them, but instead made them scale with you so they had a constant effect throughout the game per potion, and still kept that negative of "you can't use another one for 60 seconds". The way that they are being changed in this mod just unbalances them to a point where they can never be balanced. I don't want to use a health potion to speed up my health regen. I want to use them to gain a flat amount of health, that's the point of health potions in RPG's, instead of using it to boost another stat a bit. If I wanted to boost another stat temporarily, I would use a stat potion. Yes they provide minor effects, but that's also the point of them.an issue you aren't adressing is the fact that you count it all in an environment based on vanilla values. monsters deal vanilla damage and have vanilla defense and hp values. ofc flat values will be stronger early on and lose significance in later game progress. but you were complaining about the uselessness of potions... why do you want to regen x% of life per second if you can use potions to speed up your health regen at times?
Also i didnt say that he has to go for such huge flat values.. did i?
he can go for float values like 0.2 hp/s regen, and can use percentages at certain spots... the skill tree can have any size, and to have some stuff added for any "class" the tree would require a certain size to be balanced throughout the whole game, while also offering space for everything (considering we dont use composites). using percentages in regeneration would boost it in later progress, which >>>COULD<<<(this does by no means mean that it will happen with certainty. its just a possibility depending on play style, similar to the 100%+ dodge issue atm) result in way higher regeneration, which surpasses any damage source.
Regeneration should never replace any in combat healing method. NEVER. if this happens, people will lose any kind of challenge in the game.
there should be a boost to monsters in-built. like some kind of world level which gets increased with monster kills or boss kills... either way would be fine.
im too busy and inexperienced to add something like that in my mod, and people might hate me for bad late game balancing.(they already do because my monsters are too strong
The thing, like I said before, flat values for things like health regen, where the stat that they are effecting which also constantly increases, just doesn't work, because those flat values at some point just become useless, whereas x% values don't. The only way that flat and x% values work together with a stat like health regen would be if the x% values were based off of the flat values, for example if your character had a base health regen of 1hp/5s at lv1, the x% stat should increase that by a value of for example 50%, making you have 1.5hp/5s. That's the way League of Legends does it, and it works very well. Yes, I know League of Legends has a max level of 18, capping the amount of health regen you can get, but if you were to maybe only include more flat values compared to x% values, then it would be very balanced.
Skill trees should be separated, allowing for other classes to get stats that others can't. For example a melee shouldn't be allowed to have access to things like dodge chance, but maybe a ranger could? This would also be balanced as a melee could have a lot of health, health regen, defence included in it's skill tree, while also having only the selected damage type buffs, e.g. melee damage, melee crit chance etc. but shouldn't have access to dodge or the other damage types.
A ranger could have access to a lot of dodge, a lot of movement speed, minimal amounts of health, health regen and defence, while also having ranged type buffs only available to them. With no melee or magic stats. Relying on dodge and speed to take care of damage dealt to you.
A mage could have access to minimal dodge, a lot of movement speed, minimal health, health regen and defence, but have huge amounts of it's damage type, mana and mana regen. With no melee or ranged stats. Relying on it's huge damage to kill the target before it kills them.
etc. for other classes such as summoner and thrower.
Balanced? Well, probably not based on this small bit of thinking, but a lot more balanced than this mods current state.
Dodge chance, ah yes one of the RNG based stats. To fix the 100% dodge chance problem? Easy, don't allow for every class type to have access to it, while also limiting it for classes that do have access to it. Have it only in the skill tree, so there is a fixed % that is available for the player.
"Regeneration should never replace any in combat healing method. NEVER. if this happens, people will lose any kind of challenge in the game." Sooo, the current potions in this mod. You are literally saying that regeneration shouldn't replace flat healing methods, yet this mod does exactly that...
Yes, a monster leveling system would work well, and can be done in many ways, based on bosses killed or level of character. In multiplayer, based on bosses killed would be a very good way to do it, because you could have a level 300 player and a level 2 player, and would make it very unbalanced for one of the players. Late game, as in end game? Monsters should be powerful, they should provide a challenge to the player. If the player has beaten the final boss, monsters should get buffed, and I am kind of upset that vanilla Terraria doesn't do this yet. And yes, late game is very hard to balance, but it's possible if the correct systems are in place.
EDIT: But thank you for interrupting my binge watching of Re:ZERO - Starting Life in Another World, for something that is as simple as an RPG mod...
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ShuVi
Steampunker
wanna know how this issue is even happening?
because people can play RANGER and use their DEX, which also improves their damage, to boost their DODGE with the Dex/80*SLvl ability...(btw i might be mistaken with that formula.. been a while since a last played)
other classes can reach it aswell, but rangers have the bonus... also you cant use the current skilltree for reference... it required a rework for a while already, and Rockos is working on it. he just needs some free time to finish that one.
regarding progression: nakano boosted the stats of the monsters depending on certain parameters. (in NT6 on free mode its the distance to the world spawn)
Rockos isnt boosting the monsters with this mod. only the player is affected, which causes the balance issue. you would have to add another mod which boosts the monsters' stats (my mod for example (NPC Booster))
as for the potions: at the moment they arent worth that much later on yes... but still... percentages on regeneration will outpower any potion on THIS game...
imagine the case of a character with 2k health... if you would keep potion cooldowns (60/45) and have it regenerate in percentages lets say... the super healing potions which heal 200 on vanilla, could heal... 30%(?). that would heal 600 hp every 45-60 seconds.... percentage healing on lets say level 80 with points stacked mainly on survival, thus regen, max hp and defense (yes there are people like that), could reach 5% if balanced hardcore. you decide if heal/sec or heal/5sec.
if per second it would need 20 seconds to fully heal... potion surpassed by far.. even if the potion would fully heal you... if heal/5sec, it would take 100 seconds to fully heal.. guess what.. the potion with 30% heal is surpassed again... even with 60% it would be surpassed. and having a potion heal you by percentage would result on insane values with lots more hp.
the thingy: you cant only balance heal potions... what about the heartless skill, mainly used by casters (while it might prove to be pretty fun as warrior)? mana potions have NO cooldown. neither on this mod nor on vanilla. they reach far heavier values on their "HP" also called mana. percentage healing would prove to be insane there.
you cant only balance stuff with percentages. you have to think out of the box to balance stuff..
also in my suggestion post i have mentioned a combination of PERCENTAGE AND FLAT values.
anyways... before we are turning this into a large scale fight, we should drop this or move this to a private conversation, and maybe post our compromise on this thread afterwards.
by the way: as it was mentioned in earlier posts, the skill tree was inspired by the passive skill tree from Path of Exile. one unique treat of that one is: you can theoretically learn any passive skill in the whole tree. depending on your class you have a different starting location and expand from there on. this causes you to require more or less skillpoints to reach a certain build or special passive/perk which decides your final build. (this explanation is just to explain the reason everything is on a single skilltree on this mod)