A Progress Update on the Road to 1.3! Pre-Alpha Gameplay Inside!

Discussion in 'Console - 505 Games/Pipeworks Studio' started by ClearConscious, Jan 18, 2017.

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  1. Khaosbringer

    Khaosbringer Skeletron

    Why should you not expect both quality and integrity from a company. It does not have to be exclusively one or the other. They advertised all the way back in 2016 that the update would be released in q2 2017. When they stated old gen console users would be required to buy a new copy in order to play this content, should they not have done so based on the companies own words regarding the release of that content? If thats the case, how should the community be reacting to their statements regarding this update being scheduled to come out this quarter, especially considering there are only 19 days left and they have still not put out a any updated information regarding it. Your basically stating that they have no obligation to the customers who bought a new copy of the game based on the companies own advertising of these features. I already had this discussion on another thread, and found the link to thier twitter page from 2016 where it was stated q2 2017 was the release period multiple times with out any of the maybe, or targets, or we're aiming for's so common in their current statements. So, does this mean that the twitter page is not being handled by an official representative of the company? Now all this said, is it your place as a moderator to tell people how they should be feeling regarding these delays. Or whether or not they have the right to be upset or ask for more information about when we can expect a release of content. Especially after purchasing a new copy in good faith based on the companies own words? I personally feel it's wrong for you to be talking down to people just trying to figure out what exactly is happening, since no concrete information is coming out to the public. As a moderator are you speaking on behalf of the company? If so, i can tell you now, i'm done. A company that displays this much disdain for their customers or the obligations they themselves have made, do not deserve to keep them. If you are not a speaking on their behalf, i would like to see how they feel regarding these statements.
    MoeHolyGhost likes this.
  2. MoeHolyGhost

    MoeHolyGhost Terrarian

    And this is why you don't have a mod speak for a company.
    Like Khaos said earlier. They have in fact given a guaranteed timeline. I bought terraria on ps4 upon release to the console, way before 1.3 became a thing. Hell, mounts weren't even in when I got my copy so I don't personally feel slighted like many people do by their false advertising.

    But in what world is any delay allowed to be followed with silence? This isn't some :red:ing Kickstarter project it's terraria. A major achievement in indie gaming as a whole.

    But ever since 505 got involved it might as well be run by ljn, because every single update for console and mobile has been handled by a bunch of laughing joking numbnuts.

    Be it unbelievable impossible to miss bugs to delays that could span the entirety of a AAA title's life span these updates never cease to amaze.

    I'll take my warning/ban now followed by bootlickers ready to jump to your defense. Get your :red: together already.
    Khaosbringer likes this.
  3. ATZL 1452

    ATZL 1452 Terrarian

    Some of the stuff they're adding, from the gameplay videos I've seen aren't even really important. The first thing I saw was them showing off a bunch of menu options that will go largely ignored. Sure it's cool that you can change that stuff, but would it not have been better to focus on the elements of the update that will actually add something genuinely interesting to the game. Why does the whole update have to come at once? why can't they release things that work to satiate the fans and continue to fix the things that don't work as long as they need to. I personally think it would be nice if they aren't going to give us an update on a possible release schedule to at least tell us something... anything. I'd settle for just telling us what the specific problems are that they are currently working on, at least that would be some information. Not to mention, I've checked my update history. A lot of the updates clearly cite "bug fixes" as the reason we got the update. They clearly have had no problems releasing slightly buggy content before and patching the bugs later. I mean how wildly buggy could it be that they couldn't do so again?

    Sorry if this comes off as a bit rambly but I had a lot to get off my chest on the subject. I created this whole account just to make this one post. If anyone knows why the things I've suggested wouldn't work please feel free to respond, I am admittedly not a programmer and thus am not entirely aware of all the issues faced.
    MoeHolyGhost and Khaosbringer like this.
  4. Ignis55

    Ignis55 Skeletron Prime

    the game's being re-written on a completely different engine. as well as making sure our saves work alongside the new update. give them time unless you'd like a repeat of console 1.2
  5. ShadowOfDarkness

    ShadowOfDarkness Terrarian

    I see there's a de-railed train here...

    Ignis is right, they're rewriting the ENTIRE. :red:ING. CODE. That takes a lot of time and careful treading, they want to make sure as many features the game has is still functional. Besides, Re-Logic isn't necessarily the one giving updates here, they're not doing much, PipeWorks is the one doing most of this, and maybe they don't feel it's appropriate, or are bound by contracts not to release certain information without Re-Logic's permission. I understand that it's taking a while, but the end result will be worth it, you're making it sound like everyone is just stupid if YOU don't get what YOU want, WHEN you want it, and that's plain selfish, TBH, I don't even play Console, I don't own a console that can play it, I own Mobile, and before they update Mobile to 1.3, I have to wait for Console, and you don't see me complaining so much about it. Go ahead, look up the amount of information on the entirety of the TCF forums for Official Mobile Information....
    There isn't much.
    and STILL, you don't see me complaining, not here, not in any mobile thread... NOWHERE. Learn to be patient. And since I have some foresight, before you tell me I don't belong in this thread, again, I shall say, Mobile is starting it's update after Console's is released, so I'm waiting for console to finish, and at the same time, I can be happy for Console Gamers for the update, even if I'm not able to play it.

    And as for having Nike Leon respond, who is an invalid representative of PipeWorks/Re-Logic, I see your point, but while he represents neither of those companies, he DOES represent the TCF Forums, he's just trying to keep negativity off the forums and calm everyone the :red: down. In fact, in writing this post I may get myself a warning of some form, but I'm willing that risk just to give my "opinion" and my own chance to try and stop this afforementioned "de-railed train" of negative, slamming, and hurtful comments.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  6. Jaster Rogue

    Jaster Rogue Terrarian

    Well said. I'll stand by you and take a warning too coz I agree with every word.
    ShadowOfDarkness likes this.
  7. Khaosbringer

    Khaosbringer Skeletron

    Just to be clear, you don't feel it's the company has any obligation to keep it's community informed regarding whether or not they are going to keep their commitments, or delay it again? You don't feel they owe the people who bought their product, an update on somwthing they purchased after the delivery date has already been delayed? Like you said, you are a mobile user. You may or may not have purchased the game after 1.3 was announced. I purchased a new copy on console specifically because of the advertisements for 1.3. If you don't feel the need for them to keep you informed, thats your decision, but telling others they can't be upset over failed delivery and no information is not going to change minds.
  8. r4v1n6

    r4v1n6 Official Terrarian

    It's too early to complain, they can still deliver before the end of Q3. Let's not break out the pitchforks until October 1.
    ShadowOfDarkness likes this.
  9. ShadowOfDarkness

    ShadowOfDarkness Terrarian

    You act as though the game of Terraria is unplayable until 1.3. Since you bought the game again, and now have a new copy, why not calm down, make a new character and world, and spend the time until the release playing and enjoying the current version?
  10. Kazzymodus

    Kazzymodus Lunatic Cultist

    Your argument is based on three false premises:
    • That having paid for a product is the same thing as having paid for subsequent updates.
    • That an estimated release target is the same thing as a deadline.
    • That delaying said release target does not come forth out of the general inaccuracy of such an estimate, but rather the developers failing to meet said imaginary deadline, which they 'should have been able to', under circumstances never elaborated on.
    These misconceptions have been addressed multiple times in this thread, either by me personally or by other people. These premises aren't subjective, and therefore this is not a case of 'agree to disagree'. You, and everyone else with you, have every right to be upset, and I see sufficient reason for you to be so. But the specific reasons that you personally mentioned are not among those reasons, at least in my eyes, because they simply aren't logically sound, for reasons already addressed (but I'll be more than willing to go over them again in a PM).

    I'm not saying that your opinion is 'wrong', but I am saying that it is at least partly constructed from premises that are factually incorrect.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  11. Nike Leon

    Nike Leon Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    I am not an employee of Re-Logic or Pipeworks. I am a volunteer picked from the community to keep the peace in the community. Having an opinion and questions is fine, but everyone just keeps asking the same questions that have already been addressed before. And also taking the chance to sling mud at whoever they feel like at the time. This is not in keeping with the culture of mutual respect and maturity we require of all members of TCF.

    Cenx has said that they will only make announcements when there is something to announce. They announced the delay from Q2-Q3 when they new that their original goal was no longer feasible. We still have over half a month left before Q3 is over. They haven't announced anything because there's nothing to announce. If they determine that they can't make it this month then they'll tell us.

    Re-Logic as a company aims for complete games that are functional to their standards. They maintain their integrity by refusing to release sub-par quality. That may come at the cost of time but keep in mind that the longer this re-release is in development the more money they're putting into it. It wasn't free for them to hire Pipeworks to completely rebuild console Terraria from the ground up.

    Terraria's engine was created 6 years ago using XNA. That is an old format that is not compatible with current consoles. It's not as simple as copy and pasting. Things have to be reformatted or sometimes entirely recoded in order to work with the limitations and capabilities of modern consoles. There are going to be bugs and Re-Logic won't release it until it is satisfactory. That's their integrity.

    They re-wrote the entire game so there's no way to release partial updates this time around.
  12. FrostyTheFroman

    FrostyTheFroman Skeletron Prime

    When I saw new replys,
    I hoped there was some sort of update.

    Didn't expect to find so many pages of people crying about free updates to a game that's been worth more than what they paid for years.

    And at the same time as all these hurricanes, fires, earthquakes, ect...Actual problems.

    What a time to be alive...
  13. Nike Leon

    Nike Leon Moderator Staff Member Moderator

  14. LeftyRedd

    LeftyRedd Terrarian

    There's a lot of negativity in the forums lately. :/

    I like the One Terraria post, makes it seem like they're really close and I'm extremely excited. Until then, though, I have other games to catch up on.

    Patience is a virtue and all that.
  15. ATZL 1452

    ATZL 1452 Terrarian

    What you seem to have misunderstood here is that a lot of these people had the game on an older generation console and were told they'd need to purchase it again on the new consoles to play specifically this update. They were actually paying for a second copy specifically for this update. i.e. paying for the update.
    MoeHolyGhost likes this.
  16. Kazzymodus

    Kazzymodus Lunatic Cultist

    I understand that perfectly well. However, paying for a game still only entitles you to a working version for that console as is, no matter what your intentions were. One might not have considered it 'worth it' to pay for a new copy without updates, but if that was the case, then they should've waited until the update actually arrived.
    ShadowOfDarkness likes this.
  17. Khaosbringer

    Khaosbringer Skeletron

    Wow only halfway through my work day, an already so much drama. Glad to see they finally put out some information, unfortunatly from the wording of it, looks like we can expect another delay. Figure this is as good a place to start as any. Seems theres been some misconceptions regarding my statement. I've never stated they were legally obligated to release the update. Integrity and consumer trust should be more then enough incentive for them to keep their word. However, since you keep circling back to whether it's legal or not, well, let's just look up the legal definition of false advertising,

    False Advertising n.

    the crime or tort of publishing, broadcasting, or otherwise publicly distributing an advertisement that contains an untrue, misleading, or deceptive representation or statement which was made knowingly or recklessly and with the intent to promote the sale of property, goods, or services to the public

    Now just this statement.

    Our current target delivery for the Reset+1.3 is Q2 2017. All of this will be absolutely free to existing Current Gen Console Terraria owners (Old Gen players will have to purchase a Current Gen copy)

    Published check

    Misleading, (content was delayed, other official communications back up this timeline) check

    Reckless (providing a timeframe then being unable to meet that commitment) check

    promote the sale of property, goods, or services to the public ( old gen users will be required to purchase a new copy) check.

    This is one example. Now with this in mind. Might be time to lay off the legal dispute. I can provide many more examples. And now my lunch is over. So i guess this will have to be continued later
  18. Kazzymodus

    Kazzymodus Lunatic Cultist

    I never mentioned anything to do with law. While I definitely don't think Re-Logic has any legal obligation to stick to their release target, I don't think they have a 'PR' (let alone moral) one either, which was the point I was trying to make. However, if you want to approach this from a legal perspective, I'll play ball: maybe that'll make my stance more clear.

    "Current target delivery" consist of three words: current, target and delivery.
    • Current: as of this moment, i.e. susceptible to change.
    • Target: an intended goal to reach, i.e. an endeavour, no complete and utter certainty of success.
    • Delivery: the time period in which a product is to be publicly available.
    So what "current target delivery" means is "the time period that as of this moment we are intending to have the product publicly available". It doesn't mean "the time period at which the product will definitely be available". If Re-Logic meant to say that, they would've used words that meant that (like "definite release date"). So the allegation that Re-Logic promised that 1.3 would without question be released in Q2 of 2017 simply isn't true.

    As for how you chose to fill in the terms "misleading" and "reckless" in your false advertisement allegation, it is rather ironic how you did look up the definition of "false advertising" in the Merriam-Webster, but not the words contained within the definition itself (and then proceed to misuse them):
    • Misleading (legal definition) means "to cause to have a false impression", which is not applicable here because the impression given was "we are planning to release in Q2" (which was true), and not "we will release in Q2".
    • Reckless (again, legal definition) means "characterized by the creation of a substantial and unjustifiable risk to the lives, safety, or rights of others and by a conscious and sometimes wanton and willful disregard for or indifference to that risk that is a gross deviation from the standard of care a reasonable person would exercise in like circumstances" which, while quite a mouthful, is not applicable either because this whole matter has nothing to do with "gross deviation from a standard of care", and there is no risk (at all, let alone substantial) to the rights of others (you don't have a right to a correctly estimated release period). Claiming a new, untested foodstuff you brought on the market is healthy without having done (or there being) any research into affirming that (or the opposite) is reckless, because it A) creates a substantial and unjustifiable risk to other people's health by providing something with unknown (i.e. potentially adverse) health effects, B) is done consciously, and C) deviates from the standard of care of reasonable people (a reasonable person wouldn't bring an untested foodstuff on the market). Supplying a release date estimate, even if wildly unrealistic, is not reckless by any measure.

    Disregarding semantics, however, you were by no means forced to buy a copy before the update actually arrived (you weren't forced to buy a copy at all, but never mind that). You were at full liberty to wait until the update was ready and rolled out before choosing to buy another copy (for no additional cost if you chose to wait, I might add). Yet you chose to buy a copy of a product, you knew exactly what the product contained (1.2.4, not 1.3 at that point) and both parties (yourself included, otherwise you wouldn't, or at least shouldn't, have gone through with it) considered your half of the transaction to be worth that. If Re-Logic had said that what you were buying was a full working copy of 1.3, then yes, that would be false advertising, but you knew that what you were buying at that time was not a copy of 1.3. Furthermore, the promise (by lack of a better word) of getting 1.3, let alone on or by a specific date (which, as we have already established, was never the case) was not factored into that transaction: you were not buying a license to 1.3, you were buying a copy of Terraria 1.2.4 as-is, which was fully playable for all means and purposes. If you did not consider the money you had to pay for that sans 1.3 worth it, you should never have gone through with the transaction. That goes beyond the discrepancy of "what you are buying" and "what you think you are buying" (because there was no discrepancy there, you knew exactly what you were getting), that is a discrepancy of "what you are buying" and "what you wish you were buying", and that's hardly Re-Logic's fault.

    If you think you have a strong case to sue Re-Logic for false advertising, then of course you can always do just that. But, even though I'll admit to neither being a judge or a lawyer, I do think it'd be a waste of time and money for both sides.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  19. Khaosbringer

    Khaosbringer Skeletron


    And i rest my case
  20. MegaMage314

    MegaMage314 Plantera

    Seriously? You're going to use a post from twitter (not even a standalone post, just a response to someone asking a question) as an official release date?

    Look, if all you cared about was 1.3, you shouldn't have jumped the gun and bought the game ahead of time. YOU screwed up, it's your fault for spending the money when you had nothing to lose from holding on to it, and you can't blame Re-logic for that. You think you're sick of waiting for the update? Imagine how it must feel for the people actually working on it. I'm sure they would like nothing more than to just release the patch and finally move on after having worked on it for over a year. But they can't, because it's not ready yet. Just like they have to continue working on it, you'll just have to suck it up and just wait like everybody else.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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